10 hours ago, idiewell said:

Nope, it wasn't just you. You don't use tight flight formations with slow bombers on capital ship attacks for a reason...

Nah that was the exact formation you use for heavy bombers based on WW2 tactics. However those planes could take hits the starfortress (henceforth will be called space B17s) on the other hand crumpled like tinfoil when the enemy looked at them wrong.

11 hours ago, chr335 said:

Nah that was the exact formation you use for heavy bombers based on WW2 tactics. However those planes could take hits the starfortress (henceforth will be called space B17s) on the other hand crumpled like tinfoil when the enemy looked at them wrong.

I just re-watched the movie. They actually took quite a few hits from TIE fighters. It was only when one got hit IN the bomb-bay with the doors open and the payload primed that ships went down like a stack of dominoes.

Actual reason for tight formation:

“ As a bomber, the MG-100 Starfortress was slow and ungainly, making it prone for starfighter attack. Resistance flight instructors taught bomber crews to fly in tight formation, opposing attacking fighters with overlapping fields of fire. The rear and ventral turrets offered a potent defense against attackers approaching from below or from the rear, but were less effective against threats from above or in front of the bomber squadron. Escort duty for starfighter pilots were difficult assignments for pilots owing to the sacrifice of their vessels speed advantage in order to stay close to their assigned bombers. Enemy fighters would try to lure such escorts away, leaving the bombers exposed.”

Tight formation firing in space is so stupid.

While yes formation flying means escorts have an easier time protecting the bomber from other squadrons...

...A) should the escorts be destroyed the bombers are all clumped together and easy targets, not spread out giving them a higher chance of surviving longer.

B) easy targets for a ships AA. Cause you know... the AA doesnt have to reorient far, if at all to hit multiple targets compared to spread out targets.

C) overlapping fields of fire... from weapons that were powerful against targets to the rear or below anyway? If their ineffective or hardly effective to the front or above anyway, its much easier to have the escort fly where it can protect those areas or redesign the bombers than fly the bombers as a flying group target. (Imagine a starship grade scattergun)

D) as seen, their carrying anti-starship grade explosives. Its like creating a minefield where if one goes off they all go off, not the smartest of ideas.

D.2) who designs bombs that are Arm-Deploy? Why not just put a sensor that detects when the bomb leaves the craft and then arms it? So much simpler and safer.

Gah i hate the resistance bombers.

20 minutes ago, DrakonLord said:

Tight formation firing in space is so stupid.

While yes formation flying means escorts have an easier time protecting the bomber from other squadrons...

...A) should the escorts be destroyed the bombers are all clumped together and easy targets, not spread out giving them a higher chance of surviving longer.

B) easy targets for a ships AA. Cause you know... the AA doesnt have to reorient far, if at all to hit multiple targets compared to spread out targets.

C) overlapping fields of fire... from weapons that were powerful against targets to the rear or below anyway? If their ineffective or hardly effective to the front or above anyway, its much easier to have the escort fly where it can protect those areas or redesign the bombers than fly the bombers as a flying group target. (Imagine a starship grade scattergun)

D) as seen, their carrying anti-starship grade explosives. Its like creating a minefield where if one goes off they all go off, not the smartest of ideas.

D.2) who designs bombs that are Arm-Deploy? Why not just put a sensor that detects when the bomb leaves the craft and then arms it? So much simpler and safer.

Gah i hate the resistance bombers.

For all the same reasons why aren't fleets in Star Wars ever spread out like in real life?

You see how close the Rebels ships at Endor fly next to each other? Or Death Squadron in Empire Strikes Back?

Why is broadsiding even a thing in a universe where you can fire at enemy ships a moon's distance away?

Why is targeting what amounts to WMDs eyeballed by gunners rather then sophisticated targeting arrays?

9 minutes ago, Forresto said:

For all the same reasons why aren't fleets in Star Wars ever spread out like in real life?

You see how close the Rebels ships at Endor fly next to each other? Or Death Squadron in Empire Strikes Back?

Why is broadsiding even a thing in a universe where you can fire at enemy ships a moon's distance away?

Why is targeting what amounts to WMDs eyeballed by gunners rather then sophisticated targeting arrays?

1) i have the same problem with, as well as why arent ships spread out on a 3D area. I try to ignore it for the sake of the movies but it still bugs me.

2) i amount that to it being plasma based weaponry having a short range.

3) thats a peeve ive had since the beginning. Surely SW electronic warfare isnt that good that they have to resort to manual targeting? Maybe it is but if so surely thay could ECM whole ships - like disabling life support?

Just to add my two credits to this thread, but as a life long star wars fan (First saw Star Wars in 1977) I think that this film was ten times worse than the last film (The Force awakens) and that film was bad, really bad.

Both movies are full of unexplained things going on i.e. why is it the first order is now the rulers of the galaxy when the Empire was defeated after ROTJ? and who is Snoke, for instance?

And the films are so full of plot holes and mistakes that a five year old can point them out.

For me the saga finished with ROTJ and whilst I loved Rogue One, these films are just garbage

8 minutes ago, Obiwanshinobi said:

And the films are so full of plot holes and mistakes that a five year old can point them out.

Something that could also be said about the original trilogy.

I know this because I knew 5-year olds back then who pointed them out.

Can you illustrate a few plot holes in the originals just so we know which ones you are talking about?

39 minutes ago, Obiwanshinobi said:

Can you illustrate a few plot holes in the originals just so we know which ones you are talking about?

The entire plot for return of the Jedi

Can you be more specific?

14 minutes ago, Obiwanshinobi said:

Can you be more specific?

http://www.movieplotholes.com/star-wars-return-of-the-jedi.html

Good that you have gone to a blog rather than answer them yourselves but I don't see them as plot holes.

Lets take them in order...

1) The destruction of the second death star leading to Armageddon on Endor.

Well it may have done, and as it happens at the end of the film we will never know, but theres some things we don't know i.e. distance from the planet to the death star its hard to ascertain exactly what would happen. Maybe a lot would burn up in the atmosphere as so much of our space garbage does today. But how is this a plot hole?

2) C3PO on endor with camouflaged troopers.

Not sure how this is a plot hole i'm sure. Sure C3PO may stick out like a sore thumb but it doesn't mean you wont want to be camouflaged yourself in case you get into a fire fight. And if you read the script it states that the strike team move forward and 3PO and R2 bring up the rear. So as they are not in the vanguard they are probably not likely to get spotted.

3) Speeder troopers not needing transmitters

Not too sure what they are getting at here as the first scout shouts to another "Go for help, go" and then gets shot by Chewbacca. The other is dealt with by Han. So how could they call for help?and then that immortal line "Quick jam their com link". Yep thats that plot hole taken care of.

4) The elite storm troopers are inept at beating ewoks

I think the point here is that Lucas was making a point about less advanced civilisations being able to beat more more advanced ones i.e. that happened to the USA in Vietnam. Remember that? Yes a bunch of untrained farmers beating elite troops from the most powerful country in the world, or Afghanistan with the Russians, or the British a hundred years before that. The Ewoks had surprise, knowledge of the local area, and backed up by rebel troops, and yet many still died. Sure it might seem a bit far fetched but theres a point to the scene. Again its not a plot hole.

5) second death star with a weakness, yes thats why they had a shield generator as the death star was unfinished so OF COURSE IT HAD A PATH TO ITS REACTOR. Face Palm.

6) Lukes plan sucks ***

Yes I agree that several things could have happened to R2, but who says that Luke didn't have another plan?

7) the Emperor sucks at survival

I will agree that maybe the Emperor could have done something, but is he the same emperor we see in the perquels. He is older, maybe not as powerful and again taken by surprise. And again if you read the script the Emperor is directing his laser bolts into Vader, which is why he dies.

I won't address the plot contrivances as time is running out before I have to go do something but really can be answered by anyone who has a brain.

But even if these were plot holes they are no where near as big as...

Why not send the resistance fleet at hyper space in different directions? after all the first order can only track one ship.

Why is the first order ruling the galaxy after the Emperor and the empire were defeated?

Who is snoke and where did he come from?

How come Rey a desert dweller can fly the falcon, repair the falcon, use a staff, a light sabre, speak wookie, and droid, and swim. She comes from a desert planet for crikes sake.

And the worst, the saving of Leia using the force. Now lets think about this

1) she gets blown out of the ship. No wounds from the explosion or the shrapnel, and ignoring that the shock of the blast alone would kill her. She is then pulled along by a star ship that is travelling at a few thousand miles per hour and not left in deep space with the rest of the ejected space matter. Then instead of freezing to death, her body bloating to twice its normal size, her body bleeding due to compression, or being burnt through radiation, no she uses the force to pull herself back into the ship. A power that not even the master Jedi used in any previous film. And then they open the door to let her in.

Then Rey without any training in the use of a lght sabre defeats the elite Guard of Snoke.

I could go on but as I say, I need to be somewhere.

2 hours ago, Obiwanshinobi said:

Can you illustrate a few plot holes in the originals just so we know which ones you are talking about?

A New Hope:

"No life signs on board" is not a reason not to shoot an escape pod in a world populated with droids.

The Death Star had no need to hyperspace to the opposite side of Yavin from the rebel base's moon, it could have gone to one side instead. It did so only so that we had the "clock counting down".

The Death Star could have just fired on Yavin itself, winning instantly.

Plans for the Death Star as displayed to the Rebel pilots was different from the actual Death Star. For example, the laser array in the display screen was at the equator instead of the northern hemisphere.

Empire Strikes Back:

AT-ATs shown to only be able to shoot forward. Yet snow speeders attack from head on rather than totally safe from sides or rear.

Imperials are blockading Hoth. Yet when Luke takes off in his x-wing he doesn't so much as see another ship or fighter.

Falcon has no hyperdrive, yet still gets to Bespin.

On asteroid, Han, Leia, and Chewie exit the Falcon with nothing but a breather on their face. So much for the cold or vacuum of space.

To prevent escapes, the imperials disable the hyperdrive of the Falcon. Why not just disable the entire engine? Then they couldn't even leave Cloud City.

Return of the Jedi:

Burning the feet of a droid? That doesn't even make sense.

When approaching the palace of Jabaa, 3PO says " Lando Calrissian and poor Chewbacca never returned from this place ". However, Chewbacca hadn't even gone to the palace yet.

AT-AT clearly shown at the shield base on Endor, yet not there for the running battle that takes place.

When fighting the Rancor, why did Luke need to throw something to push the button on the door? He had the force, he could have just pushed it.

A tied-up Luke asking Han if he can reach his lightsaber when we've seen that he can use the force to just levitate it.

Where did Ewoks get a princess-Leia-sized dress?

The emperor had no story by the end of ROTJ, he was just some wrinkly old dude who was super powerful and lured Vader to the darkside and ran the Empire because reasons. He didn't even have a name until years after ROTJ.

Everything about the death star's weakness, and the battle of Yavin in general made less sense than anything in TLJ.

Sure, Darth Vader has been committing genocide for the last 20 years, but I think I can make him a good guy again.

AT-ATs. Stupid. Cool looking, but stupid.

Hey, lets form up a rebel alliance to battle with the Empire.. ok Yoda, Obi.. you two are the only ones capable of standing up to Vader and possibly the emperor, so you go hide while we wage war.

Carbon freezing.

Lets be honest, if movie Boba Fett fought movie Phasma, Phasma would mop the floor with him.

Han fills the falcon with treasure to pay off Jabba. 3 years and an attack on Ord Mantel later.. still hasn't flown to Tatooine to pay off Jabba. Or wire him the funds, if Star Wars tech has advanced to that level.

Star Wars is awesome, always has been. It's also always been dumb, and usually dumb for some coolness plot or character driven reason. TLJ was a Star Wars movie telling a Star wars story about Kylo and Rey, so the backup cast did not get the giant EU treatment and the returning original cast were there primarily to bridge and enhance their story. Comics, books, rpg supplements, video games, cartoons will all flesh out the auxiliary characters and give us more adventures of Luke/Han/Leia but the movies are moving on and telling new Star Wars stories, which include dumb things for coolness, plot, or character driven reasons.

1 hour ago, Obiwanshinobi said:

Good that you have gone to a blog rather than answer them yourselves but I don't see them as plot holes.

Lets take them in order...

Agreed with on some but others really are just choices the writer and director made to make the film cooler. Every film is guilty of these, especially Star Wars.

So if you choose to not see them as plot holes thats fine, but then its rather hypocritical to then roast the Last Jedi for similar issues you let slip for other films.

There is one plot hole in ANH that I remember very well many people were always bothered by and was only answered by R1...

Why does the Empire make such a huge weapon and leave an exhaust port that leads straight to the core and is just about big enough for a torpedo to go through and is so open and prone to attack? And how does the entire small moon-sized battlestation just instantly blows up from this? And an even better one, how do the pilots find so much time to get so far from the explosion that they are not even affected by it??

people getting upset about star wars itt

I am doing a hearty IRL LOL

22 minutes ago, Visovics said:

There is one plot hole in ANH that I remember very well many people were always bothered by and was only answered by R1...

Why does the Empire make such a huge weapon and leave an exhaust port that leads straight to the core and is just about big enough for a torpedo to go through and is so open and prone to attack? And how does the entire small moon-sized battlestation just instantly blows up from this? And an even better one, how do the pilots find so much time to get so far from the explosion that they are not even affected by it??

Because Star Wars is a fairytale and should be treated as such. The new movies try to subvert fairytale tropes, but that's not why I watch Star Wars. I don't want "gritty" Star Wars. I want the action adventure Star Wars with the swashbuckling hero. The Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon Star Wars. The stuff I saw on public broadcasting because I grew up with 3 channels.

The reason Luke could blow up the Death Star? Because he learned to trust himself and let go. He put down the computer and used his instinct to save the day. Now, anyone could have done it and Rogue One now tarnishes the story because it's literally designed so anyone could do it.

The new movies feel an awful lot like the "darker and edgier" movies we've gotten in the past decade. It's fine I guess. The question is how will these hold up in the long run? Star Wars is one of those things we share from generation to generation. My dad introduced me to Star Wars when I was a kid and I'm doing the same with my kids. It's one of the few things we as a culture still share with our children.

Like it, don't like it. I don't see the point in arguing. People have dug their trenches and are waiting for someone to jump into no-man's land to get shot to death with all the repeated arguments we've heard over the past 3 weeks. I'm happy to move on and enjoy other things for awhile.

43 minutes ago, ricefrisbeetreats said:

Because Star Wars is a fairytale and should be treated as such. The new movies try to subvert fairytale tropes, but that's not why I watch Star Wars. I don't want "gritty" Star Wars. I want the action adventure Star Wars with the swashbuckling hero. The Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon Star Wars. The stuff I saw on public broadcasting because I grew up with 3 channels.

The reason Luke could blow up the Death Star? Because he learned to trust himself and let go. He put down the computer and used his instinct to save the day. Now, anyone could have done it and Rogue One now tarnishes the story because it's literally designed so anyone could do it.

The new movies feel an awful lot like the "darker and edgier" movies we've gotten in the past decade. It's fine I guess. The question is how will these hold up in the long run? Star Wars is one of those things we share from generation to generation. My dad introduced me to Star Wars when I was a kid and I'm doing the same with my kids. It's one of the few things we as a culture still share with our children.

Like it, don't like it. I don't see the point in arguing. People have dug their trenches and are waiting for someone to jump into no-man's land to get shot to death with all the repeated arguments we've heard over the past 3 weeks. I'm happy to move on and enjoy other things for awhile.

I know, I’ve grown up on Star Wars and its honestly the biggest love of my life, and honestly I always enjoyed them without any of those plothole concerns. I was just adding about the whole “new one has plotholes blah blah”, because it’s simply star wars, it’ll always have those plotholes because they make the movies more exciting for the younger audience (aka the target audience), sorry if it had sounded differently?

3 hours ago, Visovics said:

There is one plot hole in ANH that I remember very well many people were always bothered by and was only answered by R1...

Why does the Empire make such a huge weapon and leave an exhaust port that leads straight to the core and is just about big enough for a torpedo to go through and is so open and prone to attack? And how does the entire small moon-sized battlestation just instantly blows up from this? And an even better one, how do the pilots find so much time to get so far from the explosion that they are not even affected by it??

2 hours ago, Visovics said:

I know, I’ve grown up on Star Wars and its honestly the biggest love of my life, and honestly I always enjoyed them without any of those plothole concerns. I was just adding about the whole “new one has plotholes blah blah”, because it’s simply star wars, it’ll always have those plotholes because they make the movies more exciting for the younger audience (aka the target audience), sorry if it had sounded differently?

No problem. I take medication that keeps me cool as a cucumber. Lol. Can’t make me mad!

I disagree on the target audience thing. I think the target audience is everyone. When “Star Wars” came out, everyone went to see it. ****. Even Queen sang about Star Wars (he didn’t like it). It always felt like the “Star Wars is for kids” thing didn’t come along until the prequels came out and their quality came into question.

I think it was this topic...

... anyway.

Rogue One.

Y-Wings.

Bombs "Drop" from Level Flight. Not Dive-Bombed. (Center Frame, Orange/pink dot falling from Y-Wing at bottom of shield ring)

TLJ is in my top 3 Star Wars movies now (along with Rogue One, and Rebels would be there if it was a movie) so I must be exactly who Disney has in mind for their target audience.

I'm a PhD scientist and SW science has always been terrible and (possibly) getting worse, but that's where most of the plotholes lie and if I turn off the geophysicist in me then most dissappear.

The entertainment and story through books, shows, and movies are getting much better in the past 3 years. I love that Rey is a nobody, that Snoke's identity doesn't matter, and the galaxy isn't just the Skywalker show. Star Wars is back to being about a small band of freedom fighters against a powerful military dictatorship.