4 minutes ago, RogueCorona said:

If her parents were really nobodies how would Kylo know that. He hasn't exactly had time to research them so the only way he could know anything about them is if there were somebody important IMO.

Agreed. I feel like he was trying to manipulate her. I'm seeing a ton of outrage about it. In fact, my initial viewing, I was pretty disappointed with it at took it at face value.

36 minutes ago, ricefrisbeetreats said:

Agreed. I feel like he was trying to manipulate her. I'm seeing a ton of outrage about it. In fact, my initial viewing, I was pretty disappointed with it at took it at face value.

I mean the way he said it even it was like a throwaway line.... literally like Rian told his actors “have no emotional investments in the story Abrams tried to set up for you in TFA, were getting away from all that so I can pull a bunch of “gotchya” plot twists”

1 hour ago, RogueCorona said:

If her parents were really nobodies how would Kylo know that. He hasn't exactly had time to research them so the only way he could know anything about them is if there were somebody important IMO.

In my opinion they are nobodies. That is the entire point of the movie: there is never ever going to be a gotcha twist with Reys parents like in Empire.

And why would there be? The movie kinda explains it: darkness rises and light to meet it. (or the other way around) Rey is simply put Kylo's counterbalance. Why would she need any sort of parentage? Why does she need to be extra special? She is already plenty special.
Honestly, I feel like nobodies is the only route they could have ever gone with. Film Crit Hulk wrote in an essay that stated this thought a bit clearer and I got it from him:

"I thought there was going to be Lord Snoke “I am your father” moment. Why? Well, because that’s the what gets nicely set up in the scene before with Kylo’s feint of “I know who you parents are”… but nope, the lightsaber literally goes sideways and it’s another “OF COURSE!!!” reaction that rings out in my brain, because it all says it so clearly. Especially in their scene after: Kylo just wants to burn it all down with him atop the totem pole. And Rey, she’s just a kid whose parents sold her away for nothing… a meaningless child who therefore needs to share her place among those destined to be great, in order to be great… That kinda gross regal thinking sound familiar?

But Rey won’t do it. She would never. I actually ended up arguing with some folks about the “disappointing” nature of this reveal, but to me it was the only reveal that could actually mean anything in this story. Because she’s not “just” anything. Which is actually everything .

For [Rey] and Rose and so many others are everything important about this movie. They are people who aren’t the sons of daughters of legends. People who have their own lives and wants, but they are people who have been discarded and stepped on and put under a system of unbearable weight. But from those leanings, there’s nothing that makes them any less capable of the force, any less a jedi, any less powerful…

And anything less than a Skywalker."

Source: https://filmcrithulk.blog

That goes back to Episode 4 where the farm boy rises up to the occasion to become the larger than life legend. All this focus on parentage and lineage just detracts from this basic point and I for one am glad that Johnson got us back to that point.
Asked as a question: must that brilliant twist about Luke's parentage in Empire define everything about Star Wars for the rest of time?
I believe they are nobodies and I hope they will remain so.

Alright you bunch of sad sacks.

My view on the films:
5, R1, 4, 8, 6, 7, 3,...

Could change with more time, though.

So, I thought:

The Rey, Kylo, Luke arc was superb. They all fit their personalities and they all did a great job in acting them out. To those complaining about Luke "giving up," he has NEVER had any amount of follow through. He has always done the easy thing. He has been idealistic and remained good, but never about doing the long-term, hard thing.

The Poe/Holdo/Leia arc. I think Leia should have died in space (with Kylo blasting down the pilots who shot the bridge or with him shooting the bridge just after them). Holdo and Poe plays out just as with Leia there, except Holdo gets the chance to teach and forgive him. Then she leaves the rebellion to him as she sacrifices when she sees that he "gets" it.

The Finn/Who cares arc. This was bad. Benicio saves that part and should get more play in a future movie, but the rest was often. Aesthetics of the casino were too earthlike and the heavy-handed moralizing was uggghhhh. However, I think this was a Abrams influenced part for ep.9 and Johnson wasn't entirely invested (although it was his job to do a better job than he did). Everything in the arc was about the future- Finn & Rose as well as the force using slave boy. I also think that they are trying to move beyond the stark Light/Dark side stuff because our culture is more interested in grey right now. Think, ANH-RotJ were made in the middle of the Cold War. We don't have the "evil empire" anymore. They are trying to find new ways of expressing the "banality of evil" so to speak. Nevertheless, could have been done in a MUCH better way.

THEORY:
To those complaining about Rey from nowhere. I wouldn't be surprised if that is the truth; HOWEVER, I am sticking to my original theory that she is the daughter of Han & Leia.
Consider-
In TFA, Han's knowing looks and their clear affinity for one another. When Rey and Leia meet, the music which plays is the same or very similar to that which played in RotJ when Luke and Leia discuss their sibling relationship. This music plays again when Luke and Leia meet for the last time in TLJ.

In TLJ, Kylo tells Rey her parents are nobodies. Why? First, it is to his advantage. If she is from Luke's lineage, it ties her to look just as much as to Kylo, but if she is a nobody, then she has no connection to Luke, but through force meetings does have one with Kylo. Further, and most importantly, look at the source. Kylo says he saw it in a vision (presumably the same type of ones she saw about him). Yet, Snoke says he was guiding these connections. He would not have wanted to let Kylo know if she and Kylo were siblings. If that is the case, everything coming from them is suspect.

Hence, Kylo is an awful source. If he did see a vision it came from manipulator Snoke. If he didn't see it, then he was lying and we still don't know.

Also, ackbar got wacked by the fighters attacking the bridge which was interesting. No extra dice for their attack.

Can we all raise a toast to that glorious son of a fish? To Ackbar!

50 BBY - 34 ABY

The gem of this thread imo is

FUEL.

FFG please put it some fuel mechanics as FUEL is now canon! Hyperspace ram would also be appreciated. /s

Also DRINKING MONEY

that is all.

10 hours ago, Astrodar said:

Man... if only they could make another movie that might explain some of these. They really should have thought that through.

You think they are going to go into Snokes backstory? I highly doubt it. They killed him off so awkwardly as if Rian was upset he had even been written in in the first place. What purpose would they have to explain who he is/where he’s from if he’s dead now?

Throughout the other films, we never once see Luke work hard to fix a mistake he made. We do however see him struggle with the call of the dark side. I don't think it is far fetched to see him cut himself off from the force after realizing that darkness was still there, calling him.

We also see him descend into the bowels of the Empire and face down the emporer himself because he was SO DETERMINED to save his father, who everyone else had given up on. Your telling me JEDI MASTER Luke who has been getting trained by ghost Yoda/obi wan for years got scared by the potential darkness of a 13 year old... not buying it

I mean... It's not like the First Order is in the middle of a campaign for galactic conquest. Logically, they should keep all of their force users in the exact same solar system. Or perhaps they were all killed by Snokes, who may have been living a little closer to the "only ever two" rule. Again... another movie could help clear a lot of this up. If only.

Then adress it! Even just a throwaway line like “The Knights are spread thin doing my bidding, this mission falls to you alone Kylo” Instead I’m left again with the feeling that Rian just wanted to ignore all the set up of TFA

I'm not sure if I'm more annoyed by "trixxed" or by "emo kid". We have never before seen a powerful villain in Star Wars relax his guard in a moment where he felt invincible only to be betrayed and destroyed by their own servant. Terrible plot point.

This usually happens after a lightsaber fight scene. Not sitting in a chair like a punk

I missed that part. I mean there was a bit that specified her parents were nobodies. I suppose that means her visions meant nothing? I genuinely may have missed some connection to Obi-wan and Yoda. As far as I know she only ever heard their voices during her visions. She's literally having an awakening in her regarding something that binds all things together. Why wouldn't two of the most powerful Jedi be connected or present for that?

Why them then? Why not Ki-Adi-Mundi and Yaddle? I mean, they were powerful Jedi Masters too, right? This was clearly more foreshadowing that was ignored my Rian

Meh... not an issue for me. Fuel is well documented in the canon, so who knows what they are running the Raddus on. It seems like there should be a reactor instead, but who knows.

Fuel makes sense for like Snub Fighters or even transports. But a City-Ship bigger than an ISD? Nah

Next time I watch it, I'll have to keep my eyes peeled. It must have been like "Where's Waldo" and they were hidden really well in 90% of the movie.

They really were. Scenes that didn’t even need them had them tucked into corners of the shot and stuff

None at all. Definitely none for Poe, Rey, Ren, Luke, or Finn. None of them had issues with "there's more than just blowing things up", "what is my place in this, who am I", "I struggle with what I've done, and I must balance the desire for dark with the drive for good", "maybe I was wrong to run away and now I should help", or "I'm in this for myself and my friends. I'm willing to sacrifice myself for everyone. There's someone who thinks I need to live. There's more worth fighting for."

I honestly didn’t see any character development. I saw each character stick to their superficial personality and charge ahead bull-headed with whatever fit that shallow character

I don't know. You may have gone to the wrong theater. Did it feature a rag-tag team of super-human or alien people fighting to save the universe from an overbearing evil presence?

yup

Laser brain?!?!?

Can be pulled off by Carrie Fisher when calling out Han Solo sarcastically. Not by John Boyega fighting for his life against another pathetic Phasma

Is it the best movie ever? Probably not. It was fun though.

It was fun. It also **** all over established Star Wars Lore

Did it kill Star Wars? Definitely not. Maybe for some people.

I think it actively tried to. He wanted to destroy the old universe to tell his own new story. Which is why fans are getting pissed

Am I probably only annoyed at the largely negative attitude that seems present on this thread because it's late and I need to go to bed. Probably.

Probably. I came out of the movie feeling excited but kinda “meh”. Now I can’t stop thinking about it’s HUGE flaws and it makes me sad. Sad for Luke (who knew this was wrong, watch interviews. He said he disagreed with literally everything about his character). Sad for fans. Sad about the fact that Rian already had a trilogy given to him.

Say what you want about the prequels, but at least they FELT like Star Wars. There was a rich, immersive world filled with backstory. This.... I felt like I watched a hunger games/BSG mashup with a Star Wars Skin

I feel like TLJ makes more sense as an Episode 7 film that is trying to distance itself from the previous George Lucas films, not as the 2nd movie in a new Disney Trilogy. Some key setups in TFA just to be tossed aside. Clearly Rian Johnson was only interested in Rey and Kylo and the Force, but was obligated give Finn and Poe something to do because of TFA.

Makes me feel even more so that Disney has no idea if they want this new trilogy to be a sequel or a reboot.

"Let the past die, kill it if you have to."

tagline for the movie imo

i loved the movie

57 minutes ago, MandalorianMoose said:

I disagree with almost every opinion you have of this film (not that that means you are necessarily wrong). It seems you are upset because you didn't get to make the movie. We all have things we would have done differently to make it more in line with what we wanted, but that doesn't make what was done wrong or bad. I, for one, would have killed Leia and let Holdo play a larger role. Nevertheless, it doesnt make the movie bad that Johnson didn't go that route.

This video has spoilers:

20 minutes ago, ryanabt said:

I disagree with almost every opinion you have of this film (not that that means you are necessarily wrong). It seems you are upset because you didn't get to make the movie. We all have things we would have done differently to make it more in line with what we wanted, but that doesn't make what was done wrong or bad. I, for one, would have killed Leia and let Holdo play a larger role. Nevertheless, it doesnt make the movie bad that Johnson didn't go that route.

I’m more upset with how they handled Luke. I could have even handled Space Leia it they hadn’t been **** bent on destroying everything Luke stood for

Pretty evident that this is divisive film.

I just want the MC85 & Resurgent Star Destroyer. I want new dice for extended and maximum ranges. I want Hux and Holdo. I want new squadrons, including those Resistance Bombers.

7 minutes ago, MandalorianMoose said:

I’m more upset with how they handled Luke. I could have even handled Space Leia it they hadn’t been **** bent on destroying everything Luke stood for

I saw no problem with Luke. Without doing a huge detour to depict his relationship with Ben Solo and other students. Might have been nice instead of the Finn/rose story, but not necessary. What Johnson gives us fully aligns with what we know of Luke AND his lineage.

Pride leads to destruction for Skywalkers? Check.

Luke is impulsive in dealing with the dark side and danger to friends? Check.

Luke uses the force powerfully, but doesnt actually know that much about how it works? Check.

Luke is extremely idealistic? Check (therefore when the reality of Kylo hits him, it is all the more destructive).

I mean, these aren't perfect and you could use the original story to say he could have been entirely different, BUT the way he was isn't the destruction of Luke's old self that you depict it to be. Ultimately, all the stuff you love about Luke is still there, but he is intentionally forcing it down by TRYING to be rational.

If the writer had simply used "power" instead of "fuel", then there might not have been so many posts about.

35 minutes ago, ryanabt said:

I saw no problem with Luke. Without doing a huge detour to depict his relationship with Ben Solo and other students. Might have been nice instead of the Finn/rose story, but not necessary. What Johnson gives us fully aligns with what we know of Luke AND his lineage.

Pride leads to destruction for Skywalkers? Check.

Luke is impulsive in dealing with the dark side and danger to friends? Check.

Luke uses the force powerfully, but doesnt actually know that much about how it works? Check.

Luke is extremely idealistic? Check (therefore when the reality of Kylo hits him, it is all the more destructive).

I mean, these aren't perfect and you could use the original story to say he could have been entirely different, BUT the way he was isn't the destruction of Luke's old self that you depict it to be. Ultimately, all the stuff you love about Luke is still there, but he is intentionally forcing it down by TRYING to be rational.

I appreciate you sharing our point of view and agreeing to disagree with me and explaining why. I could even get behind most of your logic/explanation- if we were dealing with OT Luke... But this was Jedi Master Luke who had been training under Obi Wan and Yoda (maybe even qui gon?) for how long now?

Again, I think we’re gonna have to agree to disagree here, but your explanation as calmed me down, even if it’s just a little bit lol

Why does the Falcon going into hyperspace from inside the hanger in TFA not destroy the freighter, while the Raddus making the jump while pointed in the direction of Snoke's ship results in a relativistic kill? Internal consistency is important in storytelling, no?

2 minutes ago, joespahr said:

Why does the Falcon going into hyperspace from inside the hanger in TFA not destroy the freighter, while the Raddus making the jump while pointed in the direction of Snoke's ship results in a relativistic kill? Internal consistency is important in storytelling, no?

Because Abrams did it one way, so Rian Must do the opposite...

JK- I just think that these days directors are more interested in making cool shots stuffed with CGI and effects rather than establishing mythical universes with their own rules/stories/backgrounds

2 minutes ago, MandalorianMoose said:

Because Abrams did it one way, so Rian Must do the opposite...

JK- I just think that these days directors are more interested in making cool shots stuffed with CGI and effects rather than establishing a mythical universes with its own rules/stories/backgrounds

I agree. And the shot itself was gorgeous. It just didn't make any sense based on what we thought we knew about the rules in universe. Which is both lazy writing and insulting to the audience and source material.

5 minutes ago, joespahr said:

Why does the Falcon going into hyperspace from inside the hanger in TFA not destroy the freighter, while the Raddus making the jump while pointed in the direction of Snoke's ship results in a relativistic kill? Internal consistency is important in storytelling, no?

I just figured The Raddus made contact with the Supremacy, while the Falcon jumped out of the Frieghter’s hanger without hitting anything.

That was for sure my favorite part of the film. Visually it was beautiful, and how the sound cut out like that? Amazing

My only question... why wait so long? Shes on a suicide mission already, why does she need to watch 90% of her friends die before she has the bright idea to ram them in a ship named after the dude that pioneered that move?

2 minutes ago, MandalorianMoose said:

That was for sure my favorite part of the film. Visually it was beautiful, and how the sound cut out like that? Amazing

My only question... why wait so long? Shes on a suicide mission already, why does she need to watch 90% of her friends die before she has the bright idea to ram them in a ship named after the dude that pioneered that move?

First off, I think you for our discussion thus far. You have also helped me to consider the film differently. Ultimately, I hope that it doesn't ruin the next one or others.

On this question, she starts the maneuver pretty quickly, but it takes time to line up, move power to hyperdrive, and go.

27 minutes ago, ryanabt said:

First off, I think you for our discussion thus far. You have also helped me to consider the film differently. Ultimately, I hope that it doesn't ruin the next one or others.

On this question, she starts the maneuver pretty quickly, but it takes time to line up, move power to hyperdrive, and go.

Didn’t she line it all up after like 12 transports had already been shot down? I thought I remembered her just standing at the bridge watching them get blow’d up for like, a long time, before she started making any moves

I am having that scene in Force Awakens where Kylo is going bat-crap insane in the torture room and tearing the place up. That is how annoyed I am with this whole course corrections and sudden changes that just don't make sense. None of the sub-plots from FA were followed up in this movie...The Knights of Ren for example, where the frak are they?

I never thought I would say this again about Star Wars movies....but I got bored