3 hours ago, slasher956 said:

So how do you explain the water of Kylo's hand? the 2nd time, when Rey was outside the Falcon & Kylo was in the corridor..

I interpreted that as showing that the telepathy was a lesser version of the astral projection we see later.

It sure seemed like astral projection - since Luke could see Kylo when he walked in on them.

3 hours ago, SnowWulf said:

Knowing that its impossible to please everybody...I'm gonna try to make simple script changes to explain some of GLARING errors I saw.

1) Poe's squadron is sent to knock out the point defense guns. TIE fighters are launching, Poe orders most of his squadron to draw away the TIEs while he and a couple wingmen hit the point defenses. As they approach someone is amazed the shields are down. Poe replies they must be charging their bombardment cannons, which draw a lot of power from the system. The battle proceeds as shown in the movie.

This would explain how those bombers were able to get through and how they were able to clear the turrets...If only Disney would listen

54 minutes ago, Democratus said:

It sure seemed like astral projection - since Luke could see Kylo when he walked in on them.

It wasn’t, when Luke walks out, where he looks is where there is the maid (in the exact place kylo was) and the hole in the wall, that’s why Rey’s excuse is that she was cleaning the blaster and it fired by accident. Kylo explicitly asks Rey if she can see his surroundings because he can’t see hers, which implies on how they can only see the figure of the other

I want to preface this that I studied film making and scriptwriting in university and its my career, that doesn't mean I know better or i'm smarter then other people at all, it simply means the lens in which I watch films is different because of my education.

The point of me writing this is to give those who may hate the film some insight on why someone who is trained in this field loves this movie. I speak for myself and myself alone.

~

So i've re-watched the Force Awakens and on the same day went to view the Last Jedi a second time now.

I remember how the Force Awakens mystified me the first viewing before I started to see its cracks that were exposed entirely after a second viewing, so I stayed open to the possibility that the Last Jedi on a second go round is not as good as I thought.

Nope. I realized how incredible a movie the Last Jedi really is, and how awful and clumsily written the Force Awakens seems in direct comparison. People complain that Rian Johnson screwed up what JJ set up, which he actually didnt (JJ never had a story beyond TFA just loose ends for the next director), but The Force Awakens is so simplistic Rian had to shake a lot of things up to keep the trilogy from being a rehash of the OT, which is is really what JJ set up.

I remember understanding the whole story of the Force Awakens, all the symbolism, all the stuff in the background in two viewings, and thats not good writing or film making in the Star Wars tradition. When I go and re-watch A New Hope I still notice new things all the time from visuals to story that I somehow missed even after a thousand viewings, thats incredible film making, not so with TFA. I'm still trying to figure out everything about the Last Jedi and I think it may take years and ultimately I think the Last Jedi will be vindicated just as The Force Awakens has diminished in popularity over the last two years.

~

Rian Johnson has created perhaps the most complex Star Wars movie ever with The Last Jedi, which is filled with incredible depth and beautiful writing throughout. The acting is massively improved with Deisy Ridley and Carrie Fisher allowed to show more personality and Mark Hammil delivering one of his best performances.

John William's score is phenomenal. Go listen to it (especially the Canto Bight part), every theme from the Force Awakens (a film unjustly maligned for its score) is brought back with new vigor and woven perfectly into Johnson's story and the new tracks are vividly distinct.

The script is one of the most solid and succinct i've seen in a film in a long time with every part of the film serving a purpose to either move the story forward or to distinctly develop or indicate a character's...well character. That's the first thing you learn in script writing, every part of a script needs to matter, superfluous junk serves to destroy the flow of a film. Superfluous scenes are one of the fundamental flaws of the prequels (and two dimensional writing yowza).

~

EDIT: After writing this I came across an article that I entirely agree with, especially in terms of what Rian Johnson had to work with what JJ left him.

The Force Belongs to Us: The Last Jedi's Beautiful Refocusing of Star Wars

31 minutes ago, Forresto said:

The script is one of the most solid and succinct i've seen in a film in a long time with every part of the film serving a purpose to either move the story forward or to distinctly develop or indicate a character's...well character .

I agree with everything you said except this. I found the whole Finn / Canto Bight sub-plot rather weak and aimless. But maybe that's just me.

47 minutes ago, DiabloAzul said:

I agree with everything you said except this. I found the whole Finn / Canto Bight sub-plot rather weak and aimless. But maybe that's just me.

I felt it was intentionally so. It's part of a very bad plan which ultimately fails, which I think is the point. Who in their right mind makes a plan like this? Apparently Poe, Finn, and Rose on their way to getting most of the Resistance killed.

I don't mind failure. It teaches something. This... didn't feel that way. It just meandered. I wasn't too keen on the casino design (too Earthlike), the PETA angle, the arms trade discourse, or the Phasma redux, either. That whole part of the movie fell flat for me. It might just have been the fact that I found the Kylo/Rey/Luke parts so ridiculously awesome that they made the weaker bits look worse than they really were.

I liked the film, almost loved it entirely. Not bad at all.

The devil was in the details but i can ignore that to appreciate the film.

ESPECIALLY after the disgusting mess that was TFA IMO

Just saw it tonight. I liked the movie. Better than TFA imho and unlike some reviewers I didn't mind the various subplots though some worked better than others. It's mostly some details that I found slightly annoying, but not too much, like the hologram of Maz having a conversation while also fighting of some 'union members' and finding the time while dodging laser blasts to find an image of the flower-brooch in a database to send it over.

Also not a big fan of the newly established fact that hyperspacing your ship into another ship is both possible and causes catastrophic damage (I can't remember how much damage, but I believe the Mega Star destroyer was basically cut in half, and multiple Star Destroyers were destroyed as well). Who would ever build Super Star Destroyers or any large slow moving ships for that matter if the enemy can just hyperspace a couple of empty ships a fraction of the size and cost with a single droid pilot into them.

I was also very surprised they killed off Snoke. We still don't know anything about him and his death was fairly anti-climactic at that.

ps. those 'caretaker' aliens with the white robes were hilarious

RIP Ackbar. You will be missed.

11 hours ago, DiabloAzul said:

I don't mind failure. It teaches something. This... didn't feel that way. It just meandered. I wasn't too keen on the casino design (too Earthlike), the PETA angle, the arms trade discourse, or the Phasma redux, either. That whole part of the movie fell flat for me. It might just have been the fact that I found the Kylo/Rey/Luke parts so ridiculously awesome that they made the weaker bits look worse than they really were.

I should caveat that I'm still on the fence about all the Resistance stuff. I loved some parts, and like the themes, but I walked out with no idea how I felt because some of the details were off. I think I need a second viewing.

But man, I'm over the moon with the Force user story arc. I loved literally everything about it. Daisy, Adam, and Mark all knocked it out of the freaking park.

For me the part that makes least sense if the chase of the Resistance cruisers.

1. That MC85 was able to deflect turbolaser shots for hours without any effort. Even with whole power to the aft shields, suffering constant barrage should take effect. (does the energy diminish with range due to space magic?).

2. As established at the very beginning of the movie, fighters are able to bypass the shields. Both Poe and Kylo did that. ****, we saw Kylo doing that while the cruiser was under attack (honestly expected one of the TIE/SFs to blow up due to friendly fire). Question is. Why FO did not send a wing of fighters to blow it up?! Apart from the fact the movie would end in 30 min. There is no justification given. Even the usual arrogance cannot be applied here. Hux was determined to end this quickly.

Ps. Also part I loathe. RJ made Hux look like a total blabbing idiot on the level of Wile E. Coyote

In the movie they say that at the range they are (since they are faster they can keep up that range) their cannons are not effective against their shields. And Hux suggest to keep firing just to remind them that they are there.

1 hour ago, Suriel said:

1. That MC85 was able to deflect turbolaser shots for hours without any effort. Even with whole power to the aft shields, suffering constant barrage should take effect. (does the energy diminish with range due to space magic?).

As mel said, it was clearly said that their weapons were ineffective against their shields. Basically, they're just rolling a few red dice, which get Evaded+Braced and then Repaired at the start of next round (Resistance is first player)

1 hour ago, Suriel said:

2. As established at the very beginning of the movie, fighters are able to bypass the shields . Both Poe and Kylo did that. ****, we saw Kylo doing that while the cruiser was under attack (honestly expected one of the TIE/SFs to blow up due to friendly fire).

Sort of. The Dreadnought's upper turrets were outside the shields (for some reason), they stated that explicitly. And at the time Kylo attacks the Raddus (dealing a faceup Crew Injured damage card), all the shields had been Redirected to the rear hull zone .

1 hour ago, Suriel said:

Question is. Why FO did not send a wing of fighters to blow it up?! Apart from the fact the movie would end in 30 min. There is no justification given.

Yes there is: "We cannot support you from that range." (they're outside medium range of the nearest FO ship, and they don't have Rogue) . Sure, it's not a great justification, but at least they bothered to lampshade the issue.

Say what you will, but at least it's all very Armada-esque

1 hour ago, DiabloAzul said:

Yes there is: "We cannot support you from that range." (they're outside medium range of the nearest FO ship, and they don't have Rogue) . Sure, it's not a great justification, but at least they bothered to lampshade the issue.

Say what you will, but at least it's all very Armada-esque

Yeah no kidding. Is it sad that I didn't even think about it because I automatically knew it was because they were outside command range? =D

As if FO would give a **** if they lost even a 100 fighters. They could probably send over 500 from Supremacy alone. Resistance had none.

Should end it 15min.... buy yeah that MC85 had not only infinite shields but also plot armor with thickness of DSII diameter.

13 hours ago, Forresto said:

The script is one of the most solid and succinct i've seen in a film in a long time with every part of the film serving a purpose to either move the story forward or to distinctly develop or indicate a character's...well character. That's the first thing you learn in script writing, every part of a script needs to matter, superfluous junk serves to destroy the flow of a film. Superfluous scenes are one of the fundamental flaws of the prequels (and two dimensional writing yowza).

~

EDIT: After writing this I came across an article that I entirely agree with, especially in terms of what Rian Johnson had to work with what JJ left him.

The Force Belongs to Us: The Last Jedi's Beautiful Refocusing of Star Wars

Really? I thought the whole go find a hacker arc could have been massively cut down, if not done away with altogether. It felt like filler to give Finn something to do.

I do think it was overall better than TFA although that's not a particularly high bar.

3 hours ago, DiabloAzul said:

Sort of. The Dreadnought's upper turrets were outside the shields (for some reason), they stated that explicitly. And at the time Kylo attacks the Raddus (dealing a faceup Crew Injured damage card), all the shields had been Redirected to the rear hull zone .

I thought that, like in Legends, it's possible for fighters (but not turbolaser bolts) to fly straight through shields to attack turrets, shield generators, etc.

11 hours ago, Shadow345 said:

Half of all Star Wars nerds would still find a reason to hate it.

1 hour ago, Ironlord said:

I thought that, like in Legends, it's possible for fighters (but not turbolaser bolts) to fly straight through shields to attack turrets, shield generators, etc.

It is remarkably inconsistent. For example, think about the paradox of the shield generators. How are fighters blowing up an ISD's shield generators if they aren't bypassing shields. If they're bypassing shields, they aren't they able to just go straight for the bridge instead? But if you can bypass the shields and go straight for the hull with fighters, why do you even need to knock out the shield generators?

1 minute ago, Truthiness said:

But if you can bypass the shields and go straight for the hull with fighters, why do you even need to knock out the shield generators?

Presumably because the fighters themselves do not pack enough firepower to punch deep into the superstructure to hit things like the reactor - turbolasers do - therefore the fighter's job is to render the ship vulnerable to turbolaser fire.

4 hours ago, DiabloAzul said:

Sort of. The Dreadnought's upper turrets were outside the shields (for some reason), they stated that explicitly.

I think Captain Canady and the Fulminatrix (the Dreadnought) got a bit of an unfair treatment in this film. I mean, come on...one bomber destroying a 7.6 kilometer long siege platform? Not completely accurate.

25 minutes ago, Truthiness said:

It is remarkably inconsistent. For example, think about the paradox of the shield generators. How are fighters blowing up an ISD's shield generators if they aren't bypassing shields. If they're bypassing shields, they aren't they able to just go straight for the bridge instead? But if you can bypass the shields and go straight for the hull with fighters, why do you even need to knock out the shield generators?

and yet the second Death star was protected by a shield they had to lower and raise to let ships through. Scarrif was protected by a similar impenetrable shield. The Executor's bridge shield was knocked out causing concern about fighter attacks against the Bridge, so apparently, fighter attacks couldn't get though until then. Obiwan and Anakin were stopped by 'Rayshields' on Greivous' ship and apparently were trapped behind them.