40 minutes ago, duck_bird said:

Yes, but! My group of players is all new (we all started playing at the same time and haven't had much contact with the established playerbase as Armada seems to have died down in DC/MD)

Anyway yeah I ran a list with Ruthless and Kallus on a Quasar II with 6 bombers and Valen/Dengar/2 Lambdas. It felt really dirty. I kept the ships slow rolling and pointing a little bit ahead of GH. It was tricky because while the Ruthless damage is unavoidable and REALLY starts to add up, your flak itself is still pretty much neutered by Jan/GH. Unless you manage to roll 3 damage on your flat dice, Jan just braces it down to 1 and then GH ignores it.

I had a build with QuasarII/RS paired up with decimators and bombers. Squall decimator alpha strike can be brutal, however you are correct - against Aceholes the right strategy is to either force the opponent out of GH bubble or to try and bomb GH out of existence.

43 minutes ago, Rikash said:

I've been experimenting with an ISD2 with the combo of Kallus/QLT/GT/Avenger/LS and it makes for some seriously potent antisquad. This was a list that @Vergilius suggested (credit where its due) and I've refined after we had a discussion about dealing with @Brikhause's Rieekan Aceholes. I've seen it flak down a lot of nasty squadrons. One of the list's problems I've run into is opponents who ignore the ISD with their squads and just go after the rest of the fleet (an arquitens, raider 2, and 2 gozantis at the moment). It also won't work against GH unless you pop Gallant Haven and then are able to get far enough away (as he'll Rieekan it for that one turn). I've been looking to try out a version of the list with the Kuat in there and I think it has potential. I think that Flechettes might be overkill, but it might well be worth it in that specific matchup.

The other reason I think the Flechettes would work great is that if your first player and you Flechette the squadrons down to activate them, he has to move GH away unless he slows down to keep the bubble there. If GH stays there, it will get blasted, if he moves GH way, the bubble is gone and you can strike. More and more I think about it, I am starting to like this idea. It forces the Ace Hole player to move his squadrons out of range of the kuat otherwise he runs the risk of locking down a huge part of his list.

ACK! Double post!

Or just use Governor Price on the ISD to avoid the fighter blob and destroy Yavaris / Haven.

@Ardaedhel Hurry up and run that test for me will ya.

They want the 'imperial solution', so lets give it to them.

19 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

@Ardaedhel Hurry up and run that test for me will ya.

They want the 'imperial solution', so lets give it to them.

Isn't the Imperial solution just shooting Ewoks?

2 hours ago, RobertK said:

It might be important to know how (or if!) the Valen-Bomber-Instigator question was resolved to evaluate how well this might work.

You mean this one? The consensus at the time--and I think it still stands--was that Instigator protects Valen and not the other way around. Reasoning is in that thread.

31 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

@Ardaedhel Hurry up and run that test for me will ya.

They want the 'imperial solution', so lets give it to them.

Wait... what test? The travesty we (mostly you) cooked up on Discord?

17 minutes ago, Ardaedhel said:

Wait... what test? The travesty we (mostly you) cooked up on Discord?

Yes that one.

You dont get out this easily, its at least 50/50 shared responsibility for that thing.

It doesn't exist yet, and it may never, but I'd really like to see an offensive retrofit, or some type of AA upgrade that replicates Ten Numb's ability. Of course, the AoE splash damage proc would have to be limited to one shot per arc.

It could be black or blue crit that procs the ability (and you have to spend the crit), and you'd at least have an additional source of damage to burn down Ace balls.

Just now, Warlord Zepnick said:

It doesn't exist yet, and it may never, but I'd really like to see an offensive retrofit that replicates Ten Numb's ability. Of course, the AoE splash damage would have to be limited to one shot per arc.

It could be black or blue crit that procs the ability (and you have to spend the crit), and you'd at least have an additional source of damage to burn down Ace balls.

I like this idea.

22 minutes ago, Ardaedhel said:

You mean this one? The consensus at the time--and I think it still stands--was that Instigator protects Valen and not the other way around. Reasoning is in that thread.

I was actually referring to this one, but the one you linked is another interesting read. If your interpretation stands, then to abuse Instigator, the play may be a stack of bombers, Zertik, and/or Tempest Squadron.

I have to say governor price makes this discussion more interesting for ISDs at least.

I reminded myself of a very key ingredient to countering a list while writing another post: practice. I’m not talking about just playing more games of Armada, but practing against the thing you want to beat.

A couple posts here and in other related threads make reference to “I only bring out my competitive list for tournaments because I don’t want to crash the casual scene.” That is a good thing, but for someone looking to win competitively, you have to practice against the thing you fear most. Otherwise you won’t know how to react. You can’t beat it if you never play against it.

@Vergilius and I got in many games before worlds with our worlds lists specifically to practice for worlds. That’s how Verg gits gud, and that’s how he can play Brik and other high level players like himself to virtual draws. The dude studies the game.

That may seem like too much dedication for some, but let’s take a step back and look at some facts... you (my reader) are reading this post in a thread about how to win against a competitive list. You’re already dedicating time and brainpower. And if you have a profile, or your name is @Drasnighta or @Green Knight you have probably spent days reading posts, corrected many players on their interpretation of some rules, or coded a software platform specifically for the purpose of playing this game.

6 minutes ago, bleachorange said:

I have to say governor price makes this discussion more interesting for ISDs at least.

Where did you get this spoiler from? I’m waaaayyy out of the loop

They posted it as official news, @Parkdaddy, like, an hour ago!

Shock! Horror! Surprise! ?

3 minutes ago, Parkdaddy said:

Where did you get this spoiler from? I’m waaaayyy out of the loop

Just spoiled today. https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2017/12/11/governor-pryce/

7 posts in and you’re already jaded @Rikash ?

Sorry about that ?

You were courteous enough to link it, though. Good show ?

6 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

They posted it as official news, @Parkdaddy, like, an hour ago!

Shock! Horror! Surprise! ?

Mostly horror. Literally been sleeping over at work.

Just now, Parkdaddy said:

Mostly horror. Literally been sleeping over at work.

As a graveyard shift worker, I empathize.

Thank you, FFG! Looks amazing!

7 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

As a graveyard shift worker, I empathize.

Yeah, nah, I wouldn’t want that either. I’ve been a “24/7 chained to the computer desk and explaining to people-who-outrank-me why I’m not able to make them happy (no excuse, sir/ma’am)” type of worker. But it’s only been 8 days of 1.3 meals a day, 5-6 hours of sleep with at least 1 guaranteed interruption, 50-60 degree living quarters and political butt-chewings. Not that I’m salty or anything, but at least we got the heater fixed.

I didn’t even realize today was Monday.

18 minutes ago, Parkdaddy said:

Where did you get this spoiler from? I’m waaaayyy out of the loop

What they said.

16 hours ago, Mikael Hasselstein said:

Yes, indeed, they could. I imagine that you would not want to point the Raiders at Gallant Haven, so that if the squadrons did decide to have one of my Raiders for lunch, they'd have to come out of their GH-zone and into the range of the other Raiders' AA guns.

What do Rebel fighters have to be afraid of here? GH doesn't stop Flichette Torpedoes, and as a whole Rebel fighters have enough points to easily tank two damage points if the RDR decides to deliver them. The Raider on the other hand can't survive a finite amount of attacks out of the bombers, and it costs a whole lot more to lose. Rebel fighters can risk leaving the GH ball if they want to, to delete a Raider, especially if they can get away with it and GH moves up to protect them after the fighter activation.

I don't have a lot of faith in using Raiders to stop fighters- in my experience flak dice can't cut it as well as using your own fighters to stop them. If RDRs had a redirect maybe... but all that stands between survival and a bomber assault is one brace, 2 shields, and 4 hull. And Norra is going to make those shields not matter very quickly.

Phew... Read through all eight pages, only saw the following posted once... And it was incomplete...

Mauler, IG88, saber, Jendon. That's one auto damage and 3 taps into jan, 2 having swarm... This will wreck any Intel setup quite easily EXCEPT Jan under GH umbrella... Jan in GH is like 50/50... To get closer to a lock you have to add howl... Then maybe flight controllers on top.. But it's getting expensive 85 points in squads at least and possibly a ship taking flight controllers...the good news is that these things are likely to be useful against a wide variety of opponents, not just rieekan GH..and you could still take 5 bombers with it, or maarek and 3 bombers...

I like pairing the above build with a slicer Tua ecm gozanti commanding the squads, I've seen a lot of these builds not packing Leia, and even if they do, fixing can sometimes be awkward for them.

I think the key to fighting that list is to overload the system so to speak... The turn jan goes zombie we should shove all in. I.e. Jam that ISD in there along with our fighters.zombie Intel will mean our ISD will get bombed fora round, but next turn rebel fighters can't bomb. Yvaris will wreck our squads, but we'll get yvaris or haven and the ships in the GH builds don't have the fire power to play catchup once the fighters are neutralized...

I've personally played it out this way before and it worked pretty well. I'm no champion, but I think the strategy is sound... Getting it all setup really shouldn't be a chore... Usually the GH fleet just blobs up and drifts right toward you. I think burning a few turns before engagement may be wise as it can help your ISD survive... Using those turns to skate around the Battlefield may also be wise as 5 activations all blobbed together does not turn well. It can be pretty funny watching those ships ram each other.

An idea for consideration in wave 7, should Sloane players be looking for a squadron-based method for just chiseling through the Gallant Haven bunker:

Sloane with a modest bid to go first against most 2+3 Rebel fleets. Put Governor Pryce on a Flight Controllers Quasar (Boosted Comms mandatory, Expanded Hangars optional). Pryce calls round 2 (unless Rebel fleet starts very slow, then maybe round 3) and despite the 2+3 out-activating you, you get the final shot in round 2, which is a squadron dial+token for 5/6 fighter squadrons, preferably including at least a source of Intel and Mauler Mithel and whatever other face-beaters you want to add past that. Quasar activates first in the subsequent turn and bosses around 4/5 squadrons all over again, preferably getting in another Mauler hop as well. You're not going to completely wipe the Rebel squadrons hiding near Gallant Haven, but you're going to be taking out a couple and that may be sufficient for the Sloane engine to keep rolling. Title the Quasar to taste.

It has utility against most fleets (getting in that bottom of 2 super squadron dogpile after enemy squadrons can't be commanded any more, or jumping a ship that got into range and can't wait out the Quasar) and might just be enough to brute force through Gallant Haven's damage reduction to tip the squad minigame in your favor if your fleet lacks a means to destroy the Assault Frigate (which would be my preference when possible).

If you're absolutely desperate for guaranteed damage, you can also combine with Ruthless Strategists on a Quasar-II, but I'm not sure I'd go that far.