1 hour ago, Brikhause said:

Now I do like the raider/hall monitor Vader/and Pryce combo. Problem is Pryce only works with medium and large ships.

Foiled again, curse you English language!

And as far as running them at speed 3, well... from my experience everybody drives them like I drive a Prius, nice and slow in the passing lane with a host of other ships queued up behind them.

7 minutes ago, mhd said:

Foiled again, curse you English language!

And as far as running them at speed 3, well... from my experience everybody drives them like I drive a Prius, nice and slow in the passing lane with a host of other ships queued up behind them.

I know, and they are doing it wrong!

3 hours ago, Brikhause said:

Now if you excuse me I am going to be quiet now so I don’t give any more of my secrets away.

(Gasp)Oh no. How will you ever win another match if they find out the list hinges on the classic table bump. (Just kidding, I don’t think you’ve bumped the table in either of our 2 matches-and 2 matches isn’t a lot. I should pay you and Ard a visit when I get back)

11 minutes ago, Parkdaddy said:

(Gasp)Oh no. How will you ever win another match if they find out the list hinges on the classic table bump. (Just kidding, I don’t think you’ve bumped the table in either of our 2 matches-and 2 matches isn’t a lot. I should pay you and Ard a visit when I get back)

I will await your return in Spokane bro!!?

On 12/15/2017 at 4:48 PM, Brikhause said:

Here is my take! If GH rules change to where damage reduction is applied before brace happens then you might as well see the assault Frigate as non-existent! It costs to much for what it does and the GH title is an expensive title. Not worth 8 points and not worth the AF mk2 tax imo with that change. Especially, Not when you have Sloane scatter aces that now theoretically can alpha strike twice against such a list with no retaliation. the GH is probably the one few things that is keeping Sloane from being a rock star.

The other point is if you hate your 2 hits and and accuracies being turned into no damage then WTF are you doing attacking squadrons in the GH bubble. Especially if you only have 4 blue dice. You know the average roll will be 2 hits.

Instead Draw the squadrons out threaten the other ships. Then go toe to toe with the squadrons. If your opponent doesn’t draw them out of the bubble make him pay further. This is a game akin to chess not X-wing and sometimes you have to set the pieces in place to create the trap.

The reason I and other players like me are skilled at this list especially against imperials is because imperial players continually do the same thing against me. Try to alpha with the squadrons. But then are shocked when they don’t do enough damage and I retaliate with (ideally) a GH/yavaris combo!

This is the very definition of insanity in that imperial players are doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome. The problem is that they can get away with this typical tactic against imperial builds and also against most rebel builds. This is the reason why I created this list, because you have to think differently against it as it throws off the typical tempo of a normal game. And a lot of people are not practiced at playing against such a list nor with It.

In all honesty I have a harder time against skilled rebel players just because those players tend to put more finesse in their tactics. But a rebel player has to learn finesse with their units because by their very nature they don’t have the fast squadrons and hard hitting ships that imps have. So by default rebel players are able to play against the GH list and versions like it a little easier.

The list is a brick wall and so coming at it and charging head first is going to hurt. So take down any wall by removing a few parts of it first. Then strike once the structure is weakened.

With that being said I have been alpha striked by Sloan hard and lost two key ace squadrons from it all in the GH bubble, had it not been the fact that I still had GH and yavaris to counter with before the next turn I would have lost the game big. This is why things like Gov Pryce has me very weary.

Also note that when I talk about finesse play I am not exactly talking about better/more skilled play. There is a time and place for every type of tactic and play style. Learning to be flexible and adapting to both your required play style and your opponent’s is part of the game. Rebel tactics require finesse in order to use their ships properly. So by their very nature of their units they have an easier time learning to play against my list. While imp players don’t get as much practice at those sort of tactics because often the game does not require them to use those tactics so they have a harder time against it.

So the solution is simple when playing against a GH list as an imperial player! Think like a rebel!

By no means am I saying there arent other ways to beat the list, what I am saying is that I do think the GH title can be a little too good in the same way avenger can be. the same strategy applies to defeating both - beat them at their own game or change the game. I dont really have a comment on sloane as i havent had my face punched in by her yet in the same brutal fashion as the gh+y+3.

1 hour ago, bleachorange said:

By no means am I saying there arent other ways to beat the list, what I am saying is that I do think the GH title can be a little too good in the same way avenger can be. the same strategy applies to defeating both - beat them at their own game or change the game. I dont really have a comment on sloane as i havent had my face punched in by her yet in the same brutal fashion as the gh+y+3.

Arguably and respectfully Yavaris is to good, so is demolisher, so is Rhymer, so is Mauler, so is ten numb, so is saber, a well flown instigator can be annoying, admonition, admonition w/Mothma ?..... I mean the list goes on and on.

There is no doubt that GH is powerful doesn’t mean it’s broken. I mean in the grand scheme of things you really don’t see the assault Frigate in the vast majority of rebel lists. Whereas before the demo nerf you saw that ship was in 80-90% of imperial lists. Even with the nerf you still see demo in half the imp lists out there.

If you ask me I wouldn’t mind an Armada game without al these silly titles and special abilities. Just have real stats and solid capabilities. But it is the game we play.

33 minutes ago, Brikhause said:

Arguably and respectfully Yavaris is to good, so is demolisher, so is Rhymer, so is Mauler, so is ten numb, so is saber, a well flown instigator can be annoying, admonition, admonition w/Mothma ?..... I mean the list goes on and on.

There is no doubt that GH is powerful doesn’t mean it’s broken. I mean in the grand scheme of things you really don’t see the assault Frigate in the vast majority of rebel lists. Whereas before the demo nerf you saw that ship was in 80-90% of imperial lists. Even with the nerf you still see demo in half the imp lists out there.

If you ask me I wouldn’t mind an Armada game without al these silly titles and special abilities. Just have real stats and solid capabilities. But it is the game we play.

The first two were pretty well nerfed. I think Rhymer is exactly where he should be for 16 points. Bail and Pryce are likely (hopefully, even) going to nerf Demo further. Mauler and Ten both need protection, intel, and additional sources of damage to be effective. This is probably the first time I’ve heard Instigator remotely compared to Yavaris. And yeah, I’ll admit... Mothmanition is powerful. What none of these things offer is 8 rerollable blue and black dice in a 360 degree arc at up to long range. I’m not saying it’s unkillable. But point for point, I honestly don’t think there’s anything to reasonably compare with Yav post nerf. A nerf on GH would probably cripple the assault frigate, like you say. A nerf on Yavaris, though, seems completely reasonable to me. Just changing the wording so FCT doesn’t still allow the double attack might work. Do you think that would damage Aceholes too much? It’s not a super proactive fleet, after all...

50 minutes ago, The Jabbawookie said:

The first two were pretty well nerfed. I think Rhymer is exactly where he should be for 16 points. Bail and Pryce are likely (hopefully, even) going to nerf Demo further. Mauler and Ten both need protection, intel, and additional sources of damage to be effective. This is probably the first time I’ve heard Instigator remotely compared to Yavaris. And yeah, I’ll admit... Mothmanition is powerful. What none of these things offer is 8 rerollable blue and black dice in a 360 degree arc at up to long range. I’m not saying it’s unkillable. But point for point, I honestly don’t think there’s anything to reasonably compare with Yav post nerf. A nerf on GH would probably cripple the assault frigate, like you say. A nerf on Yavaris, though, seems completely reasonable to me. Just changing the wording so FCT doesn’t still allow the double attack might work. Do you think that would damage Aceholes too much? It’s not a super proactive fleet, after all...

So in regards to instigator notice I described it as an annoyance I didn’t really say it was overpowered per se. I was really trying to make a point that the game offers a very wide spectrum of crazy outlandish abilities that don’t really make any sense on a thematic scale, thus have a tendency to throw balance off.

I mean you can probably justify why Luke ignores shields, but why does the squadron base he is a part of get that ability to? For that matter why can major(aka Lt Col select) Rhymer all of a sudden increase the bomber range of all squadrons within range 1 of him? It is sort of silly when you think about it. Not trying to ruin or call out that it’s stupid, just calling it as is. I mean the end of the day I love it!!

As to the yavaris nerf well in my list 90% of the time yavaris works just fine for me without having to use FCT’s to lead into the double tap because I utilize VCX’s and love both their “strategic” and “relay” ability (I pretty much use FCT’s for strategic more often than I do for the free move double tap combo not saying it isn’t handy at times though) and I also utilize Adar talon so that a squadron is also already in place. If you nerf yavaris like that it honestly will only really nerf the lists that don’t utilize relay and also like to use heavy b-wing bomber builds, even ones without GH. So I probably would welcome a nerf like this in the end. It would just make my version of Aceholes against those lists superior.

If you don’t believe me please note that my Worlds list in 2017 did not have FCT’s or flight commander on yavaris at all. Of course it didn’t have the Rieekan nerf then either, but as I said I really only employ the FCT’s now because I love how the double move of the VCX’s jive with the objective token manipulation.

I would also argue if you nerf that from yavaris I would probably just drop flight commander and save me 3 points to go elsewhere. You probably just made the flight commander card a great bicycle tire clicker.

I should also add, as it is worth noting, that Mastershakes Hothlanta regional winning Aceholes list did not have flight commander on his yavaris.

9 minutes ago, Brikhause said:

So in regards to instigator notice I described it as an annoyance I didn’t really say it was overpowered per se. I was really trying to make a point that the game offers a very wide spectrum of crazy outlandish abilities that don’t really make any sense on a thematic scale, thus have a tendency to throw balance off.

I mean you can probably justify why Luke ignores shields, but why does the squadron base he is a part of get that ability to? For that matter why can major(aka Lt Col select) Rhymer all of a sudden increase the bomber range of all squadrons within range 1 of him? It is sort of silly when you think about it. Not trying to ruin or call out that it’s stupid, just calling it as is. I mean the end of the day I love it!!

As to the yavaris nerf well in my list 90% of the time yavaris works just fine for me without having to use FCT’s to lead into the double tap because I utilize VCX’s and love both their “strategic” and “relay” ability (I pretty much use FCT’s for strategic more often than I do for the free move double tap combo not saying it isn’t handy at times though) and I also utilize Adar talon so that a squadron is also already in place. If you nerf yavaris like that it honestly will only really nerf the lists that don’t utilize relay and also like to use heavy b-wing bomber builds, even ones without GH. So I probably would welcome a nerf like this in the end. It would just make my version of Aceholes against those lists superior.

If you don’t believe me please note that my Worlds list in 2017 did not have FCT’s or flight commander on yavaris at all. Of course it didn’t have the Rieekan nerf then either, but as I said I really only employ the FCT’s now because I love how the double move of the VCX’s jive with the objective token manipulation.

I would also argue if you nerf that from yavaris I would probably just drop flight commander and save me 3 points to go elsewhere. You probably just made the flight commander card a great bicycle tire clicker.

I should also add, as it is worth noting, that Mastershakes Hothlanta regional winning Aceholes list did not have flight commander on his yavaris.

What is your squadron loadout? Obviously 30 points going into two VCX’s isn’t cutting into your firepower which surprises me, the rest of your squads must make up for it?

7 minutes ago, MandalorianMoose said:

What is your squadron loadout? Obviously 30 points going into two VCX’s isn’t cutting into your firepower which surprises me, the rest of your squads must make up for it?

Currently it is:

Luke

X-wing

Jan

Ten Numb

H-6

green

2 VCX’s

it is not about overall firepower in the squadrons themselves, but instead precision, speed of delivering damage, efficiency of target selection, and applying the right amount of force.

It helps that I am Airforce and reading Air Force doctrine has helped me learn the concepts of applying mass and maneuver together.

I should also add that having Relay allows me to continually apply my squadrons to the attack after I have established air superiority. So with relay all my squadrons can continually attack something for 6 turns, thus it is more efficient use of firepower. I have never really been a fan of B-wings but now with Sloan and the return of 3-4 hull squadrons Ten Numb has begun to be of some use to me.

If you were to Nerf Yavaris, how would you do it?

Having used it to entirely too good of effect myself I feel like it needs to have a limit on how many squads can double tap OR it needs to clarify that the squad had not moved for ANY reason. Either or both would drastically reign it in. But Toryn, BCC, and the general quality of rebel squads all together still make a powerful base to work from.

3 minutes ago, ForceSensitive said:

If you were to Nerf Yavaris, how would you do it?

Having used it to entirely too good of effect myself I feel like it needs to have a limit on how many squads can double tap OR it needs to clarify that the squad had not moved for ANY reason. Either or both would drastically reign it in. But Toryn, BCC, and the general quality of rebel squads all together still make a powerful base to work from.

Well truthfully imp squadrons Sloane or no can now have such a powerful alpha strike that rebels sort of need more efficiency in the attack. Their speed and the number blue dice they can throw at you sort of evens things out.

What @Brikhause said everywhere. All totally good. After playing with him for almost 2 years, I think what we often see commented on in the community barely scratches the surface of what he is able to do with it.

That being said, having the right attitude toward the list and toward the game goes a long way. When people are looking at the build primarily, and at the game in a paper/rock/scissors fashion, it almost has this appearance of wanting to pick up the solid 8 all the time, as if the game really were a paper/rock/scissors writ large. It isn't. There are Rieekan Aceholes flown by players like Brik, and Rieekan Aceholes flown in less competent fashion, but still by good players, and Rieekan Aceholes flown absolutely badly by weak players. When I threw Madine on the table in the beginning, the forum threw a lot of skepticism at it precisely because no one had seen Madine do well at any kind of event. Now, we've got JJ winning a regional with him, and Truthiness running around with him. We had a thread a few weeks ago about matching up against Sloan, and how difficult it is. Sometimes, what is powerful in a community is simply what the better players have chosen to play. And nerfing something isn't necessarily going to make them beatable players, it just means they'll figure out something else about the game that can work well and then beat you with that. If you nerf Rieekan Aceholes, then yes, it might displease Brk for a while, but I guarantee you he'd just win a regional next year with something else.

In terms of attitude toward the list, if you can handle playing for the 6-5 or 7-4, everything gets a little better. You're going to have to look for those margins against top players anyway, because they know how to create a huge offset in their list, exploit it, and then minimize losses. Designing your own list should be about giving yourself a fighting chance. I kept playing my Madine list in this meta precisely because I thought it gave me a fighting chance against Rieekan Aceholes. In the end, we only played it once to a 6-5 in his favor, but I've never felt that I was out of it, just that it required precise play. I think some of the problem that people face is that you really have to think about your own list in terms of match-ups. If I face Rieekan Aceholes, how can I can match-up? Certain choices are going to be almost auto-wins for the Rieekan Aceholes, and probably other lists out there.

In fact, when we had a thread a couple of weeks ago about list-building processes, I think one of the most important things to be added is that you should design your list with the knowledge of the other lists out there. Strong players will design a list, and immediately ask how it matches up against other top lists. How do I mix up objectives, ship choices, bid, and so forth to win against specific lists? You need an answer, and if you think of your list as containing answers to the questions posed by other lists, you're on the right track.

Overall, I've enjoyed the thread, and think we've seen some productive discussions. We're going to have some different experiences, not the least because we'll have different player strengths and even preferences in different communities. And it is useful to talk about some different ideas moving forward.

2 hours ago, ForceSensitive said:

If you were to Nerf Yavaris, how would you do it?

Having used it to entirely too good of effect myself I feel like it needs to have a limit on how many squads can double tap OR it needs to clarify that the squad had not moved for ANY reason. Either or both would drastically reign it in. But Toryn, BCC, and the general quality of rebel squads all together still make a powerful base to work from.

Limit it to non-unique squadrons. That’ll shake some things up (as far as Rieekan is concerned), and it will prevent those devastating special abilities from popping off 2-3 times per turn.

That, or limiting the effect’s activation range to Close range (eg. “when you activate a squadron at close range”). This way Flight Commander/FCT is still viable, but it requires more precise flying. It would also allay a lot of people’s issues with Relay. I’m in the same boat as Brik, where I use VCXs in just about all my lists, and relay/strategic is still so powerful even with a nerf like this that I would still take 2.

And with either of these nerfs, I’d still take Yavaaris for 5 points. So would Brik. And he would adjust his tactics to continue to use these tools to devastating effect.

But id also wait to implement them until after we see the effects of Pryce.

Why nerf something that only a few of the top players can really “exploit”? What problem would it solve?

I don’t care that it is a strong archetype. Its main strength that I can see is that it tends to win big and lose small. Another asset is that its power is greater than the sum of its parts; it is extremely synergistic. These elements are simply facets of good list design.

1 hour ago, RobertK said:

Why nerf something that only a few of the top players can really “exploit”? What problem would it solve?

Because they can exploit it to such devastating effect that very few players in the world (but actually) can hope to bring a different list archetype to a high-level tournament and be competitive with those lists.

Put more restrictions on it, and you give players everywhere a better chance to poke holes in the list by taking advantage of those restrictions. What this means is a better chance for a bigger victory against this list. That’s really what the primary complainants (not complainers) want and what a fair tournament scene needs.

But truthfully, outside of the tournament scene, it doesn’t need a nerf. Nothing really needs a nerf in the casual setting. Casual settings just need casual players and everything will be fine. Which is why about 70-80% of my games have been in tournaments.

Don't nerf Yarvaris, maybe nerf Gallant, relay is the issue here. The ability to command squadrons from the other end of the board breaks a pretty fundamental part of this game in that activated squadrons are very powerful but the carriers are at risk. being that they must be near the squads to activate them.

1 hour ago, Teh HOBO said:

Don't nerf Yarvaris, maybe nerf Gallant, relay is the issue here. The ability to command squadrons from the other end of the board breaks a pretty fundamental part of this game in that activated squadrons are very powerful but the carriers are at risk. being that they must be near the squads to activate them.

It does but any ability technically breaks a fundamental part of the game. No denying Relay is great but ideally you want two squadrons with Relay in either Imp or rebel lists. That is 30 points investment coming out your squadron allotment. The squadrons are good but not great and 30 points is an awful lot to pay for the ability.

Also many Acehole lists out their don’t utilize Relay much anyway.

1 hour ago, Brikhause said:

It does but any ability technically breaks a fundamental part of the game. No denying Relay is great but ideally you want two squadrons with Relay in either Imp or rebel lists. That is 30 points investment coming out your squadron allotment. The squadrons are good but not great and 30 points is an awful lot to pay for the ability.

Also many Acehole lists out their don’t utilize Relay much anyway.

I’m very interested in seeing how you utilize relay... as you said, most acehole lists (that I’ve seen at least) don’t have relay and use Yavaris for added firepower/flak. Do you just fly her completely away from the battle?

It's not Gallant Haven, it's not Yavaris.

It's the presence of too many flotillas. They did the life boat nerf, just make the maximum number of flotillas equal to the number of non-flotilla ships. This will preserve the two above titles -which should be preserved- but it'll change the 2+3 to a 3+2 or a 3+3, which will solve all of the problems because the inclusion of even a hammerhead over a flotilla will hobble the investment in the squadrons.

It's not : "How do I beat 2+3?", it's: "How do you get 2+3 players to WANT change their list?"

So, I'll probably get flamed like crazy and end up nothing saying anything for a couple of months, but here is my thoughts:

Games (miniature, card, video, whatever) scale in one of two ways, numerically or mechanically.

Numeric means that content in the future will typically be of superior efficient budget as to what you have in the present. For example, if a card was released that was exactly like a tie fighter in every way, but had one extra blue die, there would be no reason to ever run a tie fighter again. This obviously leads to the conclusion that this type of scaling in a system where players have spent money to build their inventory is very unpopular. For a developer though, it is a very attractive system, as it is easier to balance.

Mechanical scaling is what Armada seems to be using at present. New content contains new abilities, and new combinations of old abilities, that can be mounted on new and old ships. This leads to constant mismatches between card budgeting and difficultly altering the meta.

To the meat of the issue at hand, 2+3. I have no problem with a list that is good, nor a good player running it. I am also not saying that the list and its plethora of variations can be run easily by anyone. If we assume that the players placing well with 2+3 are good players, then their choice of 2+3 as their list to play must be for a reason though? I don't think that two years running with consistent performance is coincidence, though there are probably some smarter people than me that will say otherwise.

How does this fit in with the scaling concepts? Since Armada scales mechanically, it is very difficult to remove old mechanics once introduced. In my opinion, the issue isn't "How do I beat 2+3?", it's "How do you get 2+3 players to WANT change their list?". As it stands right now, the variants of 2+3 are very happy with the current meta and FAQ, why change what is working?

I don't believe that there currently is a way to shake up the meta without resorting to serious errata, numeric scaling, or changes to the game rules as they stand. There simply isn't any reason to change the current builds. Trying to come up with a solution to how to get players to change builds without creating anger about money spent is probably the hardest part of creating this game.

4 hours ago, MandalorianMoose said:

I’m very interested in seeing how you utilize relay... as you said, most acehole lists (that I’ve seen at least) don’t have relay and use Yavaris for added firepower/flak. Do you just fly her completely away from the battle?

Not typically. Yavaris’s firepower against both ships and squadrons can be very valuable. It is a fragile ship but at the same time it is not that fragile if you have the right kind of support. So how I fly is largely situational to the objective, initiative bid, and my opponents list.

4 hours ago, AdmiralYor said:

It's not : "How do I beat 2+3?", it's: "How do you get 2+3 players to WANT change their list?"

So, I'll probably get flamed like crazy and end up nothing saying anything for a couple of months, but here is my thoughts:

Games (miniature, card, video, whatever) scale in one of two ways, numerically or mechanically.

Numeric means that content in the future will typically be of superior efficient budget as to what you have in the present. For example, if a card was released that was exactly like a tie fighter in every way, but had one extra blue die, there would be no reason to ever run a tie fighter again. This obviously leads to the conclusion that this type of scaling in a system where players have spent money to build their inventory is very unpopular. For a developer though, it is a very attractive system, as it is easier to balance.

Mechanical scaling is what Armada seems to be using at present. New content contains new abilities, and new combinations of old abilities, that can be mounted on new and old ships. This leads to constant mismatches between card budgeting and difficultly altering the meta.

To the meat of the issue at hand, 2+3. I have no problem with a list that is good, nor a good player running it. I am also not saying that the list and its plethora of variations can be run easily by anyone. If we assume that the players placing well with 2+3 are good players, then their choice of 2+3 as their list to play must be for a reason though? I don't think that two years running with consistent performance is coincidence, though there are probably some smarter people than me that will say otherwise.

How does this fit in with the scaling concepts? Since Armada scales mechanically, it is very difficult to remove old mechanics once introduced. In my opinion, the issue isn't "How do I beat 2+3?", it's "How do you get 2+3 players to WANT change their list?". As it stands right now, the variants of 2+3 are very happy with the current meta and FAQ, why change what is working?

I don't believe that there currently is a way to shake up the meta without resorting to serious errata, numeric scaling, or changes to the game rules as they stand. There simply isn't any reason to change the current builds. Trying to come up with a solution to how to get players to change builds without creating anger about money spent is probably the hardest part of creating this game.

Best way to make people not play it any more is to learn how to beat it. It is very beatable it just doesn’t fly like 90% of the lists out there. Most of the best lists don’t! All the top lists have a niche that the vast majority of the people are not familiar on how it works.

The thing I love about this game is that the variables change every game even with the same lists. This is largely due to the board size and objective play and you have to learn the variables.

I probably play this game much more than the average player. I mean I get 2-3 live Games a week and then throw another 1-2 more games I am watching and studying outcomes on I learn a lot. Not to mention I have had the honor of playing some of the top players in the world and learning from them. I didn’t always get the outcome I wanted from against the top players, but it does not mean I didn’t get great value out of the game.

I think to many people come into this game thinking it is like x-wing where you try and build a list that counters everything and nearly every game of x-wing is identical because with that list you deploy nearly the same way, the objective is the same, and the play area is smaller.

Think of it this way; this game has many more dimensions then x-wing. Your opening move can be a bigger deal in Armada then in x-wing, where it tends to be a little more forgiving since you don’t have to commit your ships to a certain type of speed. So if you view it like that you understand why Kirk defeated Khan in the Wrath of Khan. It is not like Khan wasn’t smarter than Kirk he was considered a great military mind his nemesis, but he was not thinking in 3-D.

Then when you understand those dimensions(the variables) pass it on to other players so that they understand that they have to adapt and think on a bigger stage. Who knows maybe they won’t give guys like me such large MoV’s anymore. Then it won’t be worth playing the list.

You want to know my true secret, I have a good band of brothers in my community that love this game, are highly experimental, and share their experiences with one or another. Win or lose I relish the after game where we discuss what went wrong and how the game could have gone differently. Especially with our newer players I try to give them as much heads up as I can and make them aware what they are doing wrong. I usually let them make the mistake so they learn the hard way a little, but they learn very quickly and as a result even our newer players who are willing to listen learn very quickly if they stay committed to learning. Players like @Parkdaddy, @Vergilius, @Ardaedhel, and so many others have been a fountain of knowledge and support for me. I do alright in this game more so because I have so many guys like them! I look forward to @Tirion being one of those brothers when I move to Spokane!?

which brings me another point I was discussing with Vergilius:

Sun Tzu:

Like this one

sun tzu

“If the enemy has alliances, the problem is grave and the enemy’s position strong; if he has no alliances, the problem is minor and the enemy’s position weak.”

Something to ponder on! Want to be a threat make good alliances!

2 minutes ago, Brikhause said:

Something to ponder on! Want to be a threat make good alliances!

So if I get a friend to jump you in the parking garage and steal your stuff, then that's a good alliance, right?

(KIDDING, SO MUCH KIDDING!)