I want to confirm if I can pull this stunt:
Jerjerrod, Interdictor, Engine Tech
With a Nav dial, can JJ cause the interdictor to do a 2spd then 1spdET with total 6clicks of yaw? And how much damage do I have to suffer total from this stunt, 1 or 2?
Thanks for the help
tag @Drasnighta
3 minutes ago, Muelmuel said:I want to confirm if I can pull this stunt:
Jerjerrod, Interdictor, Engine Tech
With a Nav dial, can JJ cause the interdictor to do a 2spd then 1spdET with total 6clicks of yaw? And how much damage do I have to suffer total from this stunt, 1 or 2?
Thanks for the help
tag @Drasnighta
No
Jerrod changes the yaw at the first notch to 2 clicks at your CURRENT speed. In this case your current speed is 2.
Engine Techs is a speed 1 maneuver. Your speed 1 yaw have not changed. No double yaw.
The main issue here is Jerjerrods wording.
He changes the first click of the current speed to II,
but in this instance, current speed is shown as the speed on the dial. 2.
so even if you JJ at speed 2, during the ET maneuver, the engine tech maneuver does not use your speed - it has its own, so all a second use of JJ is doing is popping you damage to do something you have already done.
Edit: Ninja’d while on break using a non-secure slow as heck wifi... If it was going to happen, it was then ?
Good show, Gink ?
Edited by Drasnighta9 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:The main issue here is Jerjerrods wording.
He changes the first click of the current speed to II,
but in this instance, current speed is shown as the speed on the dial. 2.
so even if you JJ at speed 2, during the ET maneuver, the engine tech maneuver does not use your speed - it has its own, so all a second use of JJ is doing is popping you damage to do something you have already done.
So, does that mean if the interdictor is at speed 1, only then the ET move is affected as well? Then do I suffer 2 damage to affect both normal move and ET move, or is it 1? (reading from "until end of its activation" from jj)
Edited by MuelmuelJust now, Muelmuel said:So, does that mean if the interdictor is at speed 1, the ET move is affected as well? Then do I suffer 2 damage to affect both normal move and ET move, or is it 1? (reading from "until end of its activation" from jj)
If you are at current speed 1, JJ and go, then you do, because as you said, it lasts until end of activation.
its s sharp little handbrake turn that way.
Thanks. so that is 1 damage total?
Edited by Muelmuel13 minutes ago, Muelmuel said:Thanks. so that is 1 damage total?
yes
5 hours ago, Muelmuel said:I want to confirm if I can pull this stunt:
Jerjerrod, Interdictor, Engine Tech
With a Nav dial, can JJ cause the interdictor to do a 2spd then 1spdET with total 6clicks of yaw? And how much damage do I have to suffer total from this stunt, 1 or 2?
Thanks for the help
tag @Drasnighta
I believe that the answer is "yes" but only if you start at speed 1.
The way to do it is: Suffer 1 damage for JJ while at speed 1. Use Nav dial (or token) to change speed to 2. Activate JJ again and suffer second damage. Assuming nav dial, Interdictor would have double yaw on all clicks for both speed 1 and speed 2, so it can do 135° stunt.
1 hour ago, PT106 said:I believe that the answer is "yes" but only if you start at speed 1.
The way to do it is: Suffer 1 damage for JJ while at speed 1. Use Nav dial (or token) to change speed to 2. Activate JJ again and suffer second damage. Assuming nav dial, Interdictor would have double yaw on all clicks for both speed 1 and speed 2, so it can do 135° stunt.
Does the timing of Jerry actually allow this?
30 minutes ago, BrobaFett said:Does the timing of Jerry actually allow this?
“Current speed” changes the jerry 2 clicks from the 1 line on the chart to the 2 line when you change your current speed with the dial/token.
because it references current speed.
2 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:“Current speed” changes the jerry 2 clicks from the 1 line on the chart to the 2 line when you change your current speed with the dial/token.
because it references current speed.
Is it? I would think that the change is one-time action (as opposed to ongoing effect). For ongoing effect I would expect wording like " to treat the first yaw value of its current speed as "II" until the end of its activation)
Ok, I'm confused now. Could someone explain how this exactly works?
Just now, PT106 said:Is it? I would think that the change is one-time action (as opposed to ongoing effect). For ongoing effect I would expect wording like " to treat the first yaw value of its current speed as "II" until the end of its activation)
Treat vs Change?
The net effect is the same - only current speed is effected, and unlike colloquial English, we have s specific definition for current speed. Current speed is referenced when we are doing s maneuver, and that changes - so things that reference it, reference it.
1 minute ago, Darth Lupine said:Ok, I'm confused now. Could someone explain how this exactly works?
I did s good time ago, with pictures.
Jerry does this:
Whatever your current speed is, the first click is counted as II.
If your current speed is 2, that means the first click of 2 is changed.
You check current speed when appropriate- that is mostly when doing a maneuver.
Engine techs does not reference current speed, it specified speed 1.
jerry will only effect an engine tech move if the current speed is also 1?
Is that not happening in a shared timing window?
Just now, Drasnighta said:Treat vs Change?
The net effect is the same - only current speed is effected, and unlike colloquial English, we have s specific definition for current speed. Current speed is referenced when we are doing s maneuver, and that changes - so things that reference it, reference it.
I have to disagree as the effect is definitely different. If we're talking about "change" I read it as "once JJ is used, look at the speed at your dial. the First yaw value at that particular speed is now "II" until the end of activation. Any later changes in ship speed do not affect this fact". For "treat" the difference is - "once JJ is used - there is an ongoing effect until the end of activation - for the current speed the first yaw value is treated as "II".
Just now, PT106 said:I have to disagree as the effect is definitely different. If we're talking about "change" I read it as "once JJ is used, look at the speed at your dial. the First yaw value at that particular speed is now "II" until the end of activation. Any later changes in ship speed do not affect this fact". For "treat" the difference is - "once JJ is used - there is an ongoing effect until the end of activation - for the current speed the first yaw value is treated as "II".
Your prerogative to disagree.
ZBit certainly this is one solved by consensus and email previously.
Just now, Drasnighta said:Your prerogative to disagree.
ZBit certainly this is one solved by consensus and email previously.
Can you provide the appropriate references then? Because in my opinion your explanation does contradict RAW.
1 minute ago, PT106 said:Can you provide the appropriate references then? Because in my opinion your explanation does contradict RAW.
Not on a phone while in an optometrist office being dilated between graveyard shifts,
I’d suggest searching for the previous thread where it was discussed.
RAW for me is clear, due to current speed being a rules definition,
If the used working like “the speed it is at, at the time”, of be i your side.
Edited by Drasnighta20 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:RAW for me is clear, due to current speed being a rules definition,
If the used working like “the speed it is at, at the time”, of be i your side.
I did a search however I was unable to find anything (including the thread from some time ago where this trick was discussed and the consensus at the time was that it's valid).
I'm looking at the definition of "current speed" in RRG and the only one I can find is p. 11 "A ship’s speed determines how far it must move each activation; the ship’s current speed is tracked on its speed dial".
I.e. the speed on speed dial is the current speed. Am I missing something?
(Cause based on this and "Do what the rules say, don't do anything else" approach, as a result of JJ usage ship's speed chart is changed. There is nothing in the rules or on a card that instructs us to change that speed chart again once current speed changes)
2 minutes ago, PT106 said:I did a search however I was unable to find anything (including the thread from some time ago where this trick was discussed and the consensus at the time was that it's valid).
I'm looking at the definition of "current speed" in RRG and the only one I can find is p. 11 "A ship’s speed determines how far it must move each activation; the ship’s current speed is tracked on its speed dial".
I.e. the speed on speed dial is the current speed. Am I missing something?
(Cause based on this and "Do what the rules say, don't do anything else" approach, as a result of JJ usage ship's speed chart is changed. There is nothing in the rules or on a card that instructs us to change that speed chart again once current speed changes)
You are changing the yaw for current speed. Just because current speed changes, does not mean the double yaw position does not change.
It does not say, change the yaw value for your current speed and keep the double yaw for this speed even if you change your current speed.
Just now, Ginkapo said:You are changing the yaw for current speed. Just because current speed changes, does not mean the double yaw position does not change.
It does not say, change the yaw value for your current speed and keep the double yaw for this speed even if you change your current speed.
Why shouldn't it be kept? The change is done, this transaction (execution of instructions on JJ card) is complete. What triggers a new change?
16 minutes ago, PT106 said:Why shouldn't it be kept? The change is done, this transaction (execution of instructions on JJ card) is complete. What triggers a new change?
What new change?
Jerry has changed Current Speed.
He has not changed speed 1.
He has changed current speed. Always current speed.
22 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:What new change?
Jerry has changed Current Speed.
He has not changed speed 1.
He has changed current speed. Always current speed.
I guess the real question is - does Jerry usage changes speed chart for this ship or does it keep speed chart the same but provides an additional modification the same way nav dial does? I can see arguments either way. The relevant RRG quotes are:
"Determine Course: Straighten the maneuver tool, then click the joints of the maneuver tool a number of times in either direction up to the corresponding yaw values indicated on the ship’s speed chart for the current speed. The ship can resolve a (Nav) command to adjust speed and/or yaw."
"Nav Dial: Increase or decrease the ship’s speed by one, and/or increase the yaw value of one joint by one for this maneuver."
"JJ: During a friendly's ship Determine Course step, it may suffer 1 damage to change the first yaw value of its current speed to "II" until the end of its activation"