I'm curious if maybe the stat lines need to be modified...

What about doing a 2/4/2/2 stat line to differentiate itself from the classic and not overshadowing it. Give it reload action, or an upgrade along the lines of what I mentioned earlier.

tech: Gyro gunsight 2 points: change a blank result to a hit result. you can only equip this if your attack value is 2 or lower. Small ship only.

tech: mine detector : if you have a focus you may change one focus result to a blank when resolving bombs or mines. Small ship only. You may only equip this if your agility value is 2 or higher

I'm not opposed to allowing it to take old A-Wing title and refit. you need it to feel different yes, but the combination of the ship and new pilot abilities and tech could start introducing new combos that could be really interesting and cool.

Stealing more ideas from @MajorJuggler , particularly from swarms:

What about a mini-Autoblaster/hit-Ten-Numb to allow consistent damage?

Ways to balance:

Maybe a tech or title that can only be equiped by ships with 2 attack dice? And maybe only works at range 1-2? Other possible balancing factors are primary only (Harpoons/other ordnance) or once per turn (Snapshot). And another possibility is to include a mini accuracy corrector, ie „cancel all results, add 1 hit, dice cannot be modified again“. If it were to be a mod, then a „you may equip another modification upgrade“ could be added. This would allow TIEs to use it, too.

Tech/Title/Mod: “When attacking, 1 of your Hit results cannot be cancelled by defense dice. The defender may cancel Crit results before Hit results.“

One problem is that the Advanced, TAP, FO, SF, Z95 and several others all have just 2 attack, so maybe a title or tech would be better. But then again, such a card is only dangerous in numbers.

updated original post

16 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

curious to learn how you see and characterize pocket aces, because the closest I ever played enough was Jake - who falls completely out of what I just sketched as pocket ace.

Pretty much. Given that he starts at 24 points, and from the sounds of it you wouldn't consider taking him without focus/evade (so either intensity or push the limit), and you feel you'd need PS9 (so A-wing test pilot and Veteran Instincts) and finally autothrusters, that means you'd be unlikely to field him and have change from 30 points, even if you haven't taken proton rockets (at which point he floats like a butterfly and stings like....well...a mildly offended butterfly).

Most of the TIE/fo and TIE/sk uniques are pretty good pocket aces, as are quite a few Scyk aces (like Genesis Red/VI/Heavy Scyk/Mangler). A very Spartan fit on Thweek (just autothrusters and MkII) or the Inquisitor (just autothrusters and TIE/V1 probably qualifies too, although it's pushing the definition to me.

as far as I'm concerned, a 'pocket ace' is such that:

• you can fit one 'all-up', with everything you'd really want to give them, for less than the 'base chassis' price of a normal ace, such that you can pack 35+ points onto two aces and still fit in your pocket ace
  • Omega Leader is about as expensive as I'd be prepared to class as a 'pocket ace', at 26 points.
    • It should be noted you can field a pretty effective Omega Leader for just 21 points (take nothing but A Score To Settle).
  • If I had to pick a hard limit, I'd probably say 29, because that's a straight swap of Omicron Group + Palpatine to a third 'combatant', but that's thinking from an imperial aces list mindset, and I wouldn't want to pay that much.
• Is still threatening enough that you will think seriously about trying to gang up on them in an early round, just as you would a 'proper' ace.
  • You cannot afford to give Omega Leader a 1-vs-1, even with a more expensive ship (great versus targets with medium levels or red/green dice and no ability to break target locks)
  • Pure Sabbac can do horrendous damage for his cost if you don't focus him down
  • Duchess offers an optional action-free 'boost' and and action-driven barrel roll at PS10, giving her soontir fel-esque levels of arc-dodging for the price of a lightly equipped X-wing (great versus fixed arcs, admittedly so-so versus turrets)
• Has a decent chance in a 1vs1 fight in the end game against a more expensive ship, often due to some way of gaming pilot skill (like Epsilon Ace or Thweek)
• Has a 3-dice attack or a 2-dice attack which is sufficiently hard to dodge or reliably accurate to qualify, or has an easily triggered means of getting more attack dice.
  • It's interesting to note the sheer number of TIE fighter, TIE/fo, TIE/sk and TIE Adv. pilots whose pilot ability is some variation on "roll an extra attack die":
    • Backstabber
    • Scourge
    • Mauler Mithel
    • Zeta Leader
    • Pure Sabbac
    • The Inquisitor
  • Almost as if they realised that was one of the most useful things they could give the ship, you know?
• Has some sort of decent PS repositioning ability.

On 12/8/2017 at 2:12 PM, GLEXOR said:

The Basics of the Pilot Card:

Name: RZ-2 Interceptor.

Stats: 2;3;2;3.

Upgrade Bar: Missile;Tech.

Action Bar: Focus;TL;Boost;Evade.

Dial:

2-5 straight ; 2-3 bank ; 2 turn ; 1,3 turn; 3 Tallon Roll ; 5 Koiogran Turn .

Pilots:

PS1 non: 18 points.

PS5 non (EPT): 23 points.

PS3 unique with gimmick, 21 points

Resistance Spec. Forces: RZ-2 Interceptor only, Title. "When attacking with your primary weapon, you may change one blank result to a hit result. You may not equip this card if your pilot skill is "4" or below." 1 point. (based on @Wiredin 's idea)

Thoughts, comments, concerns, additions?

My first thought is that you're charging 3 points more than an A-Wing for a single extra shield and some options (that will cost points to fill). Given that they don't have access to Chardaan refit, I would definitely drop the price of these ships by 2-3 points across the board.

Or drop the price by a single point and make the title free, without PS restrictions for equipping.

That title is indirectly going to do a lot of work making this a low PS missile ship- it will be able to fire a missile in round 2 and then have a solid primary attack after that.

Comm Relay and Juke will probably be a solid combo as well- Luke might be a monster with the action free title, ability, and stored evade token.

On 12/12/2017 at 2:46 PM, SabineKey said:

The only true contribution I think I have is a mod that has been bouncing around my head since a technical readout for the RZ-2 was put online. My interpretation of the shield array was that it could draw extra power from the engines at full burn. This got me thinking of a mod that would allow an A-Wing to regen a shield after preforming a 3+ maneuver. Keeping it limited to A-Wings would give them an interesting option, but not without cost (no AT, doesn't mesh too well with the PTL play style, etc). There are also ways to further include costs (treat maneuver as red, for example), on top of probably a minimum point cost of 3.

I believe you got that wrong. Like all ships with shields, the RZ-2 can transfer energy not used to recharge the shields. This would mean either receiving a weapons disabled token (or reducing the attack power - something like Miranda does) or receiving an ion token (like the Pulsed Ray Shield) to recover 1 shield.

4 minutes ago, Odanan said:

I believe you got that wrong. Like all ships with shields, the RZ-2 can transfer energy not used to recharge the shields. This would mean either receiving a weapons disabled token (or reducing the attack power - something like Miranda does) or receiving an ion token (like the Pulsed Ray Shield) to recover 1 shield.

I've had this debate before (possibly with you, I honestly don't remember), but I still hold to my interpretation of the wording used. That said, it can certainly be wrong. I just stick to it due to wording used and how much more interesting it would be this way.

Now this is interesting... could be a fun pilot ability:

After performing a 2 speed or slower maneuver you may recover one shield token.

sure, more rebel Regen.... but it's an A-wing, they die easily right?

1 hour ago, Wiredin said:

Now this is interesting... could be a fun pilot ability:

After performing a 2 speed or slower maneuver you may recover one shield token.

sure, more rebel Regen.... but it's an A-wing, they die easily right?

My problem with that is it actually it doesn't present an interesting choice. If you can go two speed, then slap on PTL and you've got a shield plus your two actions a turn. It just strengthens an already decent play style rather than encouraging or making something new.

17 hours ago, SabineKey said:

My problem with that is it actually it doesn't present an interesting choice. If you can go two speed, then slap on PTL and you've got a shield plus your two actions a turn. It just strengthens an already decent play style rather than encouraging or making something new.

Need to create a risk/reward. it would be too easy to copy Pulse Ray or Miranda and combine them... does it make sense to make it remove a shield to add 1 agility then add a shield and take a 2 speed maneuver?

2 hours ago, Wiredin said:

Need to create a risk/reward. it would be too easy to copy Pulse Ray or Miranda and combine them... does it make sense to make it remove a shield to add 1 agility then add a shield and take a 2 speed maneuver?

Honestly, I think the A-Wing would benefit more from Miranda's ability straight up. From my experience with A-Wings, I have far more cases of lamenting their damage output rather than their survivability. So, that's me not that excited about the first half of the ability.

As for the second half, it still doesn't affect PTL A-Wings all that much. Yeah, they'll miss the faster straights on some turns, but most are leaning on the two turns.

Now, this is based on my experience and what I think is best to be done. I would love to PTL a focus and evade while getting a shield back, I just don't think that is best for the game as a whole. Some might disagree and we won't really know who is right without testing.

18 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

Honestly, I think the A-Wing would benefit more from Miranda's ability straight up. From my experience with A-Wings, I have far more cases of lamenting their damage output rather than their survivability. So, that's me not that excited about the first half of the ability.

As for the second half, it still doesn't affect PTL A-Wings all that much. Yeah, they'll miss the faster straights on some turns, but most are leaning on the two turns.

Now, this is based on my experience and what I think is best to be done. I would love to PTL a focus and evade while getting a shield back, I just don't think that is best for the game as a whole. Some might disagree and we won't really know who is right without testing.

the question ends up being with the new A-Wing if it will be allowed to take the old stuff, and personally I think it should. With that in mind, PTL A-Wings are currently not really a thing anymore unless your flying an ace.

I do agree that the damage output is where the A-Wing lacks, and I totally agree with you. They do still blow up very nicely too! I'm running into the problem right now that if I put an A-wing into my list, my local opponents take care of them first...so I'm always looking at ways to make them more survivable. I usually fly snap/juke A-Wings tho, so the offense is more like a thousand papercuts than a breaking ball to the face like from a harpoon missile or Rey for example.

19 minutes ago, Wiredin said:

the question ends up being with the new A-Wing if it will be allowed to take the old stuff, and personally I think it should. With that in mind, PTL A-Wings are currently not really a thing anymore unless your flying an ace.

I do agree that the damage output is where the A-Wing lacks, and I totally agree with you. They do still blow up very nicely too! I'm running into the problem right now that if I put an A-wing into my list, my local opponents take care of them first...so I'm always looking at ways to make them more survivable. I usually fly snap/juke A-Wings tho, so the offense is more like a thousand papercuts than a breaking ball to the face like from a harpoon missile or Rey for example.

Yeah, after I pinned that last post, I got to thinking on the RZ-2. My objection based on damage would just need to be something else. I'm personally for giving them bullseye arcs, but there are several ways to help them out in that regard.

The question of if they can use the old A-Wing title and whatnot is important and one that I am very conflicted on. On one hand, I want those goodies on the new A-Wings because they provide some awesome value. On the other hand, allowing that kind of cross use increases in possibility that the RZ-2 would just replace the RZ-1. 'Tis a conflicting point for me.

So, assuming it already comes with some sort of offensive boost, it having a shield regen trick is something that could be helpful in increasing its durability. It all comes down to how to make that ability balanced.

You just design around the title... for example, do not give the generic RZ2 pilots an EPT. That way the Juke/Snap green squadron pilot doesn't get replaced. Easier said than done I know. The T65 was essentially replaced, the Tie Fighter less so... but thats just because of the cost difference and the pilot abilities of the original ties are arguably better.

45 minutes ago, Wiredin said:

You just design around the title... for example, do not give the generic RZ2 pilots an EPT. That way the Juke/Snap green squadron pilot doesn't get replaced. Easier said than done I know. The T65 was essentially replaced, the Tie Fighter less so... but thats just because of the cost difference and the pilot abilities of the original ties are arguably better.

There are definitely ways to do it. When we first started hearing about a new A-Wing, my mind went to a heavier version of the craft, going for probably better Aces, but not cheap enough for the swarm builds. With what we know now, that's not the way to go, but that kind of distinction is the way to go, in my mind. The no EPTs for RZ-2 generics could work reasonably well.

In the end, its a delicate problem that I just have to hope is worked out to both version of the A-Wings benefit. Heck, packing some boosts to the original chassis with the new one would be greeted with enthusiasm from myself and I believe a large portion of the player base.

I love A-Wings, I've been flying them since I started playing (wave 6ish) and have always done what I can with them in every wave, and i've been trying really hard since Nym came out...but that wave just tanked my A-Wings hard! lol

So I'm hopeful for any improvement, but I don't want them to be DOA.

Bullseye firing arc, a blank to a hit tech for 2 dice primary upgrade, and a cool pilot ability that gives them an extra attack die is more than welcome!

On 12/12/2017 at 10:57 AM, Koing907 said:

Ship glut. We have two waves to sort through. Why add more fan ships.

Those "Two Waves" were supposed to be one wave.

Updated again, check it out!

Be patient, we will have it soon enough.

The 1st Order shuttle wasn't a movie tie-in release but we got it anyways.

0 point title. After you perform a primary weapon attack that does not hit you may perform a primary weapon attack against the same ship.