Good afternoon, Internetland!

I was really hoping for the RZ-2 as the Episode VIII tie-in for the resistance, but it didn't happen that way. So I decided to come up with one myself. This is what I came up with. Enjoy!

The Basics of the Pilot Card:

Name: RZ-2 Interceptor. [Note: does not say A-Wing.]

Stats: 2;3;2;3.

Upgrade Bar: Missile;Tech.

Action Bar: Focus;TL;Boost;Evade.

Dial:

2-5 straight ; 2-3 bank ; 2 turn ; 1,3 turn; 3 Tallon Roll ; 5 Koiogran Turn .

Pilots:

PS1 non: 18 points.

PS5 Cobalt Squadron Escort (EPT): 22 points.

PS3 Fergus MacFartface "When you perform the Evade Action, you may receive a weapons disabled token to assign yourself a reinforce token instead of an evade token" 21 points [Note: This guy was just a funny name that I slapped an ability on, he was not designed with balance in mind]

PS7 L'ulo L'ampar (EPT) "After you preform a maneuver, you may perform an attack, if you do, receive a weapons disabled token after the attack.": 25 points (Clarified and hammered out @Odanan 's idea)

PS9 Poe Dameron (EPT) you know what he does: 28.

New Upgrades:

Resistance Spec. Forces: RZ-2 Interceptor only, Title. "When attacking with your primary weapon, you may change one blank result to a hit result. You may not equip this card if your pilot skill is "4" or below." 0 points. (based on @Wiredin 's idea)

Thoughts, comments, concerns, additions?

Nobody? Nothing? Is it that awful?

Mind if I see the movie first?

With the A-Wing test pilot Title usable, PTL VI Prockets Snap with PTL VI Prockets Jake and something else would be fun.

I love the idea of Snap in an A-wing. That would be fun with PTL.

1 hour ago, GLEXOR said:

Nobody? Nothing? Is it that awful?

It would help if you used Strange Eons and presented the expansion in beautiful cards...

Besides, better to not pull a FFG and make an expansion without knowing the ship (or pilots), right? (unless there is some good info about the ship somewhere)

I'm just saying that the TIE Striker has no reason to carry bombs or two crew, and that whoever made that illustration probably wasn't correct about it.

4 hours ago, Odanan said:

It would help if you used Strange Eons and presented the expansion in beautiful cards...

Besides, better to not pull a FFG and make an expansion without knowing the ship (or pilots), right? (unless there is some good info about the ship somewhere)

I did make some Strange Eons cards, but they are to large of files to post here. I am going to try using Google Dox. Stand By.

EDIT: Actually, The pics are disappointing, I will have better ones after the movie.

5 hours ago, Npmartian said:

With the A-Wing test pilot Title usable, PTL VI Prockets Snap with PTL VI Prockets Jake and something else would be fun.

I intentionally avoided using the term "A-Wing" so that A-wing test pilot and chardaan refit cannot be equipped.

On ‎08‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 10:12 PM, GLEXOR said:

The Basics of the Pilot Card:

Name: RZ-2 Interceptor.

Stats: 2;3;2;3.

Upgrade Bar: Missile;Tech.

Action Bar: Focus;TL;Boost;Evade.

Well....it's an A-wing with an extra shield and the Tech slot. So far, so T-70. Extra shield and Tech definitely justifies a points increase but less than the T-70 (which gained a shield, tech and boost for 3 points) or the TIE/fo (which gained a shield, tech and target lock for 3 points). I understand the desire to avoid A-wing Test Pilot and Chaardan Refit being equippable.

On ‎08‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 10:12 PM, GLEXOR said:

Dial:

2-5 straight ; 2-3 bank ; 2 turn ; 1,3 turn; 3 Tallon Roll ; 2 Segnor's Loop .

So.... speed 3 banks become green (fair enough, probably doesn't justify a points increase but counts towards it)

Having a Tallon roll and segnor's loop is a new combination, but kind of weird. I get swapping one K-turn for an 'other' move (the A-wing has '3's and '5's) but a 2 segnor and a 3 talon actually place the ship so dratted close that the main value of multiple options (giving you the ability to find a legal 'come about move' when enemy ships and obstacles restrict your choices) becomes kind of redundant.

I'd recommend keeping the speed 5 K-turn and leaving one or the other.

I'd lean towards talon rolls;

• it keeps the ship distinct from the TIE/fo, which is in theory its main rival
• as a resistance ship, there's a good chance it'll be flying alongside one or more T-70s, which also use tallon rolls.

On ‎08‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 10:12 PM, GLEXOR said:

Pilots:

PS1 non: 18 points.

PS3 non (EPT): 20 points.

PS5 non (EPT): 22 points.

I do not have any good uniques yet. but I heard a rumor a few months ago that Luke Skywalker flies one in ep8, and Poe seems like an excellent candidate, maybe "snap".

PS6 "Snap" Wexley "After you perform a 2-, 3-, or 4-speed maneuver, you may perform a free boost action.": 25 points

PS8 Luke Skywalker (EPT) "When defending, you may change one focus result to an evade result" (or a new ability, considering both Han and Chewie got new abilities): 26 points.

PS9 Poe Dameron (EPT) you know what he does: 29.

Uniques

The one unique pilot we know who flies one is L'ulo L'ampar. He's a Duros (like Cad Bane) who appeared in the Poe Dameron comics, and was part of Poe's 'Black Squadron' special ops force; uniquely flying an A-wing rather than a T-70 X-wing.

He's a veteran of ludicrous service length, having been a combat pilot at Endor alongside Shara Bey (Poe's mother), and given to pushing his luck to attack the first order when ordered not to: a quote:

Quote

" I reviewed the after-action reports—you escalated the situation. You completely blew off the rules of engagement. You fired first. You gave the First Order an excuse to attack us. "
" Absolutely. And I'd do it again. We both know that's where things are headed. Every TIE fighter we destroy now is one less that can attack us when things really get hot. We have to fight them every chance we get! "

L'ulo is definitely a 'really good' pilot - I'd say he justifies a PS7 at least (I'm always hesitant to hand out higher). Given that you lack A-wing Test Pilot, you're probably going to want to give him Veteran instincts, so a pilot ability which enables action economy would be good. Maybe something akin to a free action at the start of the combat phase if (condition is met) - that makes him 'fake PS13' and means Veteran Instincts and Push The Limit/Intensity are now a more interesting choice. Having a target in arc at range 1, or something? Or maybe being in someone's arc at range 1?

Poe would make sense - he apparently learned to fly in an A-wing (I'd limit it to the PS8 version of Poe, though - since he's become 'the best pilot in the resistance' he's wholeheartedly transferred his affections to the X-wing). That does leave the issue of having two PS8 pilots (Poe and Luke).

Generics

The PS1 version....on the one hand, picking up a shield, tech, and dial improvements for just 1 point seems too much (I'd have gone for 2 points)

On the other, 17 points was considered overpriced (hence chaardan refit became a thing). Chaardan refit isn't available, but you could price the generic assuming it's partially 'baked in' (meaning if you said the prototype was actually worth 16 points, making the "Resistance Trainee" 18 means a probably about right 2-point increase)

PS3/PS5 - I wouldn't have two tiers of generic elites. It's better than those ships which have two tiers of non-elite generics, but you'll still have one generic which gets used and one which doesn't. I'd go with the logic that either the pilot is a trainee (non elite PS1) or is a "Rebellion Veteran" and go with PS5 elite - because someone flying an A-wing not a T-70 is going to be a seriously cranky old veteran like L'ulo, so being better than a Red Squadron Veteran in an X-wing makes sense.

On ‎08‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 10:12 PM, GLEXOR said:

New Upgrades:

Strike Interceptor: RZ-2 Interceptor only, Title. "When you equip this card, assign 1 ordinance token to each equipped Missile upgrade." 0 points.

[another title]

Reinforced Hull: Modification, limited. "When a faceup damage card with the Ship header is assigned to you, if it is not assigned durring the 'deal damage' step of an attack, you may immediately discard this card to flip that card facedown (without resolving its effect). you may equip another Modification of cost 2 or below. You may not equip this card if your hull value is '3' or greater" 2 points.

Strike Interceptor is maybe too good for a free upgrade. Given that there's no downside to taking it, you're essentially handing a 2-point upgrade (extra munitions) to the ship for free and without using up a slot. I get that without Chaardan Refit, you need to make missiles more appealing, but at the very least charge a point for this .

The other title might make it more interesting if it's a fair choice between the two, but my view can be summed up like this:

• A free title should only exist for one of the following reasons:
  • It's a unique title to reflect a specific named ship in the star wars universe (Slave 1)
  • You need a card to attach a rules 'gimmick' to a generic ship (pivot wing, adaptive ailerons)
    • This ship is nice, but has no unique mechanics needing rules 'space' to support
  • It's a 'fix' for an underpowered ship (TIE/x7)
    • This is a 'new release' and should be balanced in and of itself

Reinforced Hull..is just a really, really garbage upgrade. I'm sorry.

• So it's for TIE Advanced Prototypes, A-wings and TIE Phantoms only?
• All three of these ships have pretty much nailed-on modifications (Autothrusters or Guidance Chips for the former two, Advanced Cloak for the latter)
• The card only works on face-up damage cards not dealt during 'deal damage' - so doesn't affect 'normal' criticals, advanced homing missiles or I'll Show You The Dark Side, but only proton bombs, obstacle-collision criticals and Darth Vader.
• It doesn't even stop the damage, just flip the card face-down (which is still a 50% kill!). It doesn't even need to be a 'discard' effect because you can never use it twice; the second time it triggered, you'd be dead anyway from a second damage card and there's no way to equip this and a hull upgrade.
• The odds of encountering one in the course of a game is relatively low, and certainly not enough to consider for a moment equipping this for the same price as autothrusters and replacing it.

The main unique advantage of A-Wings is the ability to take two EPTs. I really hope that a new Awing will retain that ability.

The other part is that Jake provides Rebels with a ship that can boost and barrel roll, and als has green turns. The empire is the main faction for that, but one ship with the same ability is nice for the other factions. Vectored thrusters don‘t work because Autothrusters are mandatory with turrets being almost certainly in an opponent‘s list.

With that in mind, I do need a double-reposition ship that can do both at the same time and clear stress by using a green turn, and also providing EPT combinations.

It's probably worth noting that ordnance tokens don't do anything without the card giving the text for what they do. For whatever bizarre reason FFG chose to define that on the card, rather than as a reference card/in the rules.

It's probably worth noting that ordnance tokens don't do anything without the card giving the text for what they do. For whatever bizarre reason FFG chose to define that on the card, rather than as a reference card/in the rules.

16 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

The main unique advantage of A-Wings is the ability to take two EPTs. I really hope that a new Awing will retain that ability.

The other part is that Jake provides Rebels with a ship that can boost and barrel roll, and als has green turns. The empire is the main faction for that, but one ship with the same ability is nice for the other factions. Vectored thrusters don‘t work because Autothrusters are mandatory with turrets being almost certainly in an opponent‘s list.

With that in mind, I do need a double-reposition ship that can do both at the same time and clear stress by using a green turn, and also providing EPT combinations.

The problem is not invalidating 'old-style' A-wings.

The TIE/fo doesn't invalidate the TIE fighter, because whilst the price increase is small, compared to the price of the ship it's pretty big - limiting you to a maximum of 6 ships destroys the ability to 'swarm' properly and limits you to flying clever with the unique pilots, with generics in support.

The T-70 does pretty much 'overwrite' the T-65. You might say that's no bad thing, but the A-wing isn't in such a bad place that it deserves to be junked and replaced.

The TIE silencer, which by comparison is essentially a super-TIE-advanced does have arguments for and against relative to the original (the ability to equip autothrusters = good, no Darth Vader/ATC = bad, tech = good, no missiles = bad, better dial = good, massive cost increase = bad, etc, etc)

I actively wouldn't want to steal the A-wing's unique 'thing' - but the fact that the A-wing required one, means you maybe should think how you intend to duplicate the effectiveness increase, even if not duplicating the mechanic directly.

Giving the ship barrel roll as well would, as noted, give the Rebels a boost/barrel roll capable ship that's not unique (yes, Jake Farell and Sabine can currently do it) and that would mean you're adding a shield, tech and a new action, pushing you more to the 3-point cost increase of the TIE fighter-to-TIE/fo or T-65-to-T-70

@thespaceinvader Good catch on ordnance tokens.

Another Unique you could have besides Poe and Paulo is Tallie Lintra. She is being added to Battlefront 2 as a Hero in her RZ-2 for Starfighter Assault, and we know she will fly one in The Last Jedi. Hopefully she does something cool in the movie.

You guys are forcing my hand on this.

The other unique pilot is Tallie Lintra (have no idea of the ability because we don't have more info about the pilot).

2 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

I actively wouldn't want to steal the A-wing's unique 'thing' - but the fact that the A-wing required one, means you maybe should think how you intend to duplicate the effectiveness increase, even if not duplicating the mechanic directly.

Giving the ship barrel roll as well would, as noted, give the Rebels a boost/barrel roll capable ship that's not unique (yes, Jake Farell and Sabine can currently do it) and that would mean you're adding a shield, tech and a new action, pushing you more to the 3-point cost increase of the TIE fighter-to-TIE/fo or T-65-to-T-70

I don't disagree, but I think you slightly misunderstood my line of thinking, which is in hindsight to be expected as I did not explain it explicitly.

I tried to word my wish in a way that leaves space for other solutions without just copying the old A-Wing, while you made that explicit in the bolded part.
There can be different sources of double reposition, and OP gave an example by adding in Snap as a pilot. Jake and Sabine are two other examples. Such an effect could be written into a title.
The "second EPT" does not have to be a free choice EPT. It could reuse the mechanic of "up to a point cost of X", or action header (please no), or whatever else is suitable to distinguish EPTs. Or we can go a different route entirely and look at what this second EPT is used for: In most cases it is Snapshot+Crackshot/Juke for GreenSquadrons, or VI+PTL/Intensity. Providing a similar effect as ability could be another way to go.

If you look at a desired end state then that is, for me, a PS9+ A-Wing with more than two actions, or a low-PS A-Wing with Snapshot and a way to push damage through. Majorjuggler added the 3rd red dice if outmaneuver conditions are met by a mod, which is a dream come true and exactly the kind of thinking I had in mind myself. (Text by Majorjuggler: You may equip one additional different modification. Increase your hull value by 1. If you are attacking with a primary weapon and you are not inside the defender's arc, you may roll one additional die . ) The increased hull would have to be removed of course.

A possible solution is to make two titles: one provides the outmaneuver-extra-die, the other provides an EI/PTL/Intensity replacement + barrel roll (and now that we have Threat Tracker, we could argue that this replacement is already available to some degree if a free TL is provided). That leaves Mods for Autothrusters, missiles if wanted, and an EPT of your choice (VI or more outmaneuver, crackshot, ...).

Title 1: Add the barrel roll action to your action bar. After you performed an attack, you may acquire a free TL. (2-3 points, as it is vectored thrusters and FCS in one, but has the opportunity cost of not taking the other title)

Title 2: If you are attacking with a primary weapon and you are not inside the defender's arc, you may roll one additional die. (0-1 point)

Very nice!

Also, noting the action bar 'printed' - an A-wing already has a full action bar, so no giving it Barrel Roll too.

You probably need a more specific trigger than 'during the activation phase' - either 'when you become the active ship' or 'after your perform action step' make sense.

2 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

Title 1: Add the barrel roll action to your action bar. After you performed an attack, you may acquire a free TL. (2-3 points, as it is vectored thrusters and FCS in one, but has the opportunity cost of not taking the other title)

Looks interesting, and makes Threat Tracker very interesting (possibly to the point of being an automatic choice, which maybe starts to become a bad thing).

Having the target lock be 'unrestricted' rather than just against the target you've attacked is very powerful in the perspective of threat tracker (since you can shoot one guy and kill them, lock a second, and roll out of the way when the second attacks).

As a result, I think 2-3 points is way too cheap; you're including 2 2-point upgrades, one as a superior version to normal, without taking up either slot (and leaving the modification slot for free guidance chips that a free source of missile locks specifically complements.

2 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

Title 2: If you are attacking with a primary weapon and you are not inside the defender's arc, you may roll one additional die. (0-1 point)

1 bonus attack die is not an unreasonable 'special ability' but:

• This is really easily triggered by something as agile as an A-wing
• This is especially powerful on a 2-dice attack ship
• This does not prevent you taking a "bonus attack die" EPT or the range 1 bonus

I don't disagree this is a nice ability, but 0-1 points again, seems too good a price for a non-unique title that's adding a bonus attack die; if a ship is not good enough; fix it. the RZ-2 is not bound, ultimately, by the rules or price of the existing A-wing, and if it needs a bullseye arc, or an extra agility, or third attack die, or whatever, to be 'good enough', give it that by default rather than adding titles for no reason.

2 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

If you look at a desired end state then that is, for me, a PS9+ A-Wing with more than two actions, or a low-PS A-Wing with Snapshot and a way to push damage through.

Okay. That's more workable.

PS9+ "ace"

• Are you determined that the 3+ actions must include boost and barrel roll on either the basic action bar or auto-include cards? Because there are several ways to get barrel roll already (vectored thrusters, expert handling) - the issue is that they cost points and use up slots.
• L'ulo could easily justify being PS8, but not really more than that; he's a 'generic rebel ace' (if there is such a thing) with Black Squadron being essentially nu-Rogue Squadron and Poe being essentially nu-wedge.
  • That allows him to be PS10 with veteran instincts or PS8 (which is respectable but not earthshaking) with actions which can happen at 'infinite pilot skill' using tech like threat tracker or free actions at the start of the combat phase a la Ahsoka or Ysanne Isard, which lets you have your super-arc-dodger reflexes without needing the PS9+ that I really dislike people's insistence on because it's saying said person is supposed to be a pilot of Wedge/Poe/Vader/Han's calibre, which L'ulo (and, for that matter, 'still in flight school Poe') just aren't.
  • it also ducks the question of "I'm PS9", "I'm PS10", "I'm PS11" by going "I'm PS8 but I get to boost or barrel roll after you anyway" (which, incidentally, would be a really good combination with Expert Handling).

Low PS A-wing

• People use A-wings as snap/juke or snap/crack buddies precisely because they have two EPTs to allow it; I'm not sure I'd necessarily want to make the RZ-2 good at the same thing precisely because either it invalidates the A-wing if it's better or it's not good enough and it's useless.
  • Add to that that in a Resistance Faction specifically, there's already a ship which is a snap-shot obsessive in the form of R3-A2 Nien Numb
• A bullseye arc is pretty good at giving a 2-dice ship the teeth to hurt someone with a 2-dice primary.
  • If the RZ-2 isn't able to equip Chaardan Refit, then that gives you an unspoken responsibility to make missiles a more attractive option, so focusing on the ordnance would be better than trying to make the primary weapon that great.
  • At the same time, bullseye still works with missiles, and it gives the ship some teeth without needing an 'extra' rules card in the form of a title.
• The generic non-elite (prototype equivalent) won't be able to do this anyway, so something akin to @GLEXOR 's "strike interceptor" title would make sense; giving it the ability to carry two rounds of proton rockets gives you a pretty decent close-range punch (alternatively Reload, but the action bar is, again, already full).

A big part of the question is what is the Resistance A-wing 'for'?

I can get the idea of an ace who is all dodge-and-weave:

• Currently, no resistance ship can barrel roll
• Only the (expensive) YT-1300 can carry missiles rather than torpedoes
• The Resistance has difficulty matching the ease with which the First Order can field many PS9+ ships (Quickdraw, Backdraft, Epsilon Ace), because their pilots are expensive and generally wedded to a non-veteran-instincts EPT (aside from Poe and Rey)
• Whilst the First Order has three tiers of fighter - standard fighter in the TIE/sf, super-elite fighter in the TIE/vn and 'filler' in the TIE/fo, the T-70 falls somewhere between the first and second (depending on how lavish you are with equipment) and there's no equivalent of the many imperial 'pocket aces' like Omega Leader

Making a ship which suits 'pocket aces' might be a nice idea. I'd almost be tempted to ignore the idea of a PS1 ship in favour of it.

The things I'd suggest that it needs to work:

• A 'good' elite generic (PS5 elite)
• decent unique pilots (if you assume 'flight school Poe', L'ulo, Luke Sykwalker, Tallie Lintra are all PS7-8)
• Titles or other unique-to-ship cards which provide action economy such that they get some arc dodging ability which is not dependent on having a higher pilot skill than the target (threat tracker, as you say is a good example)
• If no access to Chaardan Refit, the ability to make effective use of missiles (primarily proton rockets/cruise missiles) - again, start-of-combat-phase actions would help a lot with this, but access to either an ordnance token or the reload action would help too.
• Alternatively, you can cut the missiles off the chassis entirely and make it a pure dogfighter. In this case, something akin to the 'baked-in-outmaneuver' or bullseye arc would make sense. Note that you need to allow for a ship having both this upgrade and outmaneuver, and a bonus attack die (especially on a 2-dice primary ship) does need to cost you points.

20 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Looks interesting, and makes Threat Tracker very interesting (possibly to the point of being an automatic choice, which maybe starts to become a bad thing).

Having the target lock be ' unrestricted' rather than just against the target you've attacked is very powerful in the perspective of threat tracker (since you can shoot one guy and kill them, lock a second, and roll out of the way when the second attacks).

As a result, I think 2-3 points is way too cheap; you're including 2 2-point upgrades, one as a superior version to normal, without taking up either slot (and leaving the modification slot for free guidance chips that a free source of missile locks specifically complements.

It's also an unintentional mistake. TL on the target is what it should be. As for the points: there's no reason to add any points for hypothetical cards on hypothetical ships, so talking about cost is moot. The Title could be cheap and the ship on the expensive side, or the title could be expensive and the ship on the cheap side. Both have pros and cons.

23 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

1 bonus attack die is not an unreasonable 'special ability' but:

• This is really easily triggered by something as agile as an A-wing
• This is especially powerful on a 2-dice attack ship
• This does not prevent you taking a "bonus attack die" EPT or the range 1 bonus

I don't disagree this is a nice ability, but 0-1 points again, seems too good a price for a non-unique title that's adding a bonus attack die; if a ship is not good enough; fix it. the RZ-2 is not bound, ultimately, by the rules or price of the existing A-wing, and if it needs a bullseye arc, or an extra agility, or third attack die, or whatever, to be 'good enough', give it that by default rather than adding titles for no reason.

Which is good, good and good, IMO.
My (unnecessary) point cost reflects that I expect an overcosted chassis that needs to decide on a title to become good enough. That is, the way these two titles are made implicitly mean that you'd never fly one without at least one title, which definitely pushes the ship more into an ace role than a swarm. Making the cheaper 1pt instead of 0 means that it is not auto include. The other approach, having a cheap chassis and expensive titles sounds like the better approach for the following reasons: the choice of including a title matters more, and the ship can be flown in swarms, too, making it more versatile.

28 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Are you determined that the 3+ actions must include boost and barrel roll on either the basic action bar or auto-include cards? Because there are several ways to get barrel roll already (vectored thrusters, expert handling) - the issue is that they cost points and use up slots.

Both should be available, but no, not necessarily on the card or auto-includes. Vectored Thrusters is a problem because Autothrusters is necessary (as mentioned in an earlier post). The EPT slot is more tricky to give up - it was one goal, after all, to allow the functionality of two EPTs, where one might be fixed.

30 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

L'ulo could easily justify being PS8, but not really more than that; he's a 'generic rebel ace' (if there is such a thing) with Black Squadron being essentially nu-Rogue Squadron and Poe being essentially nu-wedge.

• That allows him to be PS10 with veteran instincts or PS8 (which is respectable but not earthshaking) with actions which can happen at 'infinite pilot skill' using tech like threat tracker or free actions at the start of the combat phase a la Ahsoka or Ysanne Isard, which lets you have your super-arc-dodger reflexes without needing the PS9+ that I really dislike people's insistence on because it's saying said person is supposed to be a pilot of Wedge/Poe/Vader/Han's calibre, which L'ulo (and, for that matter, 'still in flight school Poe') just aren't.
• it also ducks the question of "I'm PS9", "I'm PS10", "I'm PS11" by going "I'm PS8 but I get to boost or barrel roll after you anyway" (which, incidentally, would be a really good combination with Expert Handling).

A PS8 might be better, but a PS9 pilot might become necessary with the way the game is going at the moment. But yes, threat tracker might change that anyways, which is why I think a form of free TL might be important for an RZ-2.

33 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Low PS A-wing

the other way to use massed low-PS A-Wings is as missile carriers. But that role is already filled, too. And I'm not creative enough to pull a new type of squad out of the hat here. I also like the idea of the bullseye, but that will increase the cost of the highPS ace due to something that I really don't want. I'm always looking for Rebel ships with native boost, then trying to add the barrel roll and high-ish PS, trying to keep it cheap. Jake fits that role, but he has no offense. Adding a bullseye will prevent the ship of my dreams by increasing cost too much.

Currently it looks to me like the new A-wing will arrive as a bullseye/missile swarm hybrid. Which would be new and fun, but a different thing. That's not necessarily bad though

7 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

I'm always looking for Rebel ships with native boost, then trying to add the barrel roll and high-ish PS, trying to keep it cheap. Jake fits that role, but he has no offense. Adding a bullseye will prevent the ship of my dreams by increasing cost too much.

The problem is, something has to give. A ship can have boost/barrel roll, and high PS and decent offence but it's either not going to be cheap (TIE silencer), or it's going to be made of wafers (TIE interceptor)

If I wanted something unique as a ship/squad archetype for rebels: A ship designed for 'pocket aces' would be nice. My other thought is that the rebels/resistance currently have no equivalent of a 'heavy swarm' - a ship with a 3-dice primary which can be fielded 5-to-a-squad (like the TIE striker and Heavy Scyk).

There are currently 3 imperial and 3 scum heavy swarmers:

• Alpha Squadron Pilot - Autothrusters
• Scarif Defender - Adaptive Ailerons/Lightweight Frame
• Scimitar Squadron Pilot
• Zealous Recruit
• Cartel Marauder - Vaksai/XX-23 S-Thread Tracers/Inertial Dampers/Munitions Failsafe/Guidance Chips
• Cartel Spacer - Heavy Scyk/Mangler Cannon

but no rebel equivalent (the closest thing they have is the Attack Shuttle, which is unique only)

That is an interesting ship, because that's also two ships which suit 'pocket aces' very well - pure sabbac and sunny bounder, for example, have a solid place in the 20-24 point 'third ship' slot, which rebels tend to fill with a good support ship (like HWK-260s, rebel TIE fighters, and now sheathipedes) but rarely with anything which can realistically do much damage.

I don't mind a '3rd dice' bonus ability but if you're getting an A-wing-with-a-3rd-attack-die in 20 points, it's going to have a statline blind spot somewhere.

13 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

A PS8 might be better, but a PS9 pilot might become necessary with the way the game is going at the moment. But yes, threat tracker might change that anyways, which is why I think a form of free TL might be important for an RZ-2.

As noted, I know the gameplay>fluff arguments, but I still resent randomly putting in PS9 pilots. More to the point, if you feel an A-wing or A-wing analogue needs 3+ actions to perform adequately, it's almost never going to survive in this environment because PS10 ships are common, so even a PS9 ship finds itself wanting adaptability.

Hence, I'd far rather have a sane PS on the uniques and give them means to 'cheat' the PS order.

• Threat Tracker - I don't think you absolutely must have a free target lock for it to work, but it is an expensive bit of kit for situational value without it when considered in the perspective of a 20 point generic or 24 point 'pocket ace'.
• Epsilon Ace - I wouldn't want to see an entire squad of epsilon ace, but some means to 'loan' or 'boost' pilot skill might be nice
• Ysanne Isard/Ahsoka Tano - the 'do an action at the start of the combat phase' is really powerful. Ahsoka is especially powerful because she can give those actions to someone else, but frankly either the ability to perform an action at the start of the combat phase (either for free or at the cost of a readily available focus token or flip-a-dual-card) would give you the arc-dodging you want - because a boost (followed by PTL barrel roll if applicable) at the start of the phase lets you dodge even PS11 aces with repositioning but requires at least a modicum of planning because you still move early and shoot late.

missile magazine:

2 points: A-Wing only. You may equip another missile costing 3 or less.

your action bar gains the reload action. After performing a reload action you may perform a free boost or barrel roll.

Makes a Procket/Juke/Snapshot/Auto-Thrusters A-Wing stupid expensive, but would really help with offensive output!

I'm liking the ideas and discussion going on here. The RZ-2 had lots of cool potential, but I would rather it not overshadow its predecessor. I initially thought it could take on a more "heavy" role than the Rz-1, but as design details have released, that doesn't seem like an option. The option of gearing it to be a pocket ace sounds good, as does the idea of it having access to bullseye and/or Outmaneuver effects @GreenDragoon and @Magnus Grendel have been talking about. A nice way to give it better damage dealing potential without inflating red dice.

The only true contribution I think I have is a mod that has been bouncing around my head since a technical readout for the RZ-2 was put online. My interpretation of the shield array was that it could draw extra power from the engines at full burn. This got me thinking of a mod that would allow an A-Wing to regen a shield after preforming a 3+ maneuver. Keeping it limited to A-Wings would give them an interesting option, but not without cost (no AT, doesn't mesh too well with the PTL play style, etc). There are also ways to further include costs (treat maneuver as red, for example), on top of probably a minimum point cost of 3.

4 hours ago, Odanan said:

You guys are forcing my hand on this.

The other unique pilot is Tallie Lintra (have no idea of the ability because we don't have more info about the pilot).

I really like this ability for L'ulo. Feels thematic and really deadly. Give this guy Advanced Optics and some careful TL planning, and he's got a fully modded shot for the Activation Phase.

12 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

The problem is, something has to give. A ship can have boost/barrel roll, and high PS and decent offence but it's either not going to be cheap (TIE silencer), or it's going to be made of wafers (TIE interceptor)

Wafers, please . No, but you're right. And there are many reasons why Interceptors are gone. Honestly, I'm ok with lower offence that gets a situational boost. That's why I like Majorjugglers solution so much. It's not that hard, but you still need to get there.

12 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

A ship designed for 'pocket aces' would be nice. My other thought is that the rebels/resistance currently have no equivalent of a 'heavy swarm'

17 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

As noted, I know the gameplay>fluff arguments, but I still resent randomly putting in PS9 pilots. More to the point, if you feel an A-wing or A-wing analogue needs 3+ actions to perform adequately, it's almost never going to survive in this environment because PS10 ships are common, so even a PS9 ship finds itself wanting adaptability.

I like both ideas. And the RZ-2 could potentially fill both roles. And I also despise the random PS9, but Luke and Poe *are* amazing pilots, so I'd turn two blind eyes there...

As for the 3+ actions: focus+evade is the bare minimum for a ship with such a cost/health ratio (assuming highPS ace and around 30 +/- 2 points, so not a pocket ace). For the third action, something of boost/roll/TL/... has to be possible at a situational cost. So the way I'd try to design it, roughly, is:
1. Action: native
2. Action: point costs, paid during listbuilding (Vader, TIEv1, Predator,...)
3. Action: situational cost, paid for with stress or tokens (PTL, Experimental Interface, Intensity, Jake, ...)

(It's interesting to note that really a lot of upgrades combine the 2nd and 3rd way to pay for it, like LoneWolf, Expertise, Autothrusters, Advanced Optics, and so on - all of them provide an action equivalent at both a point and situational cost. Obviously most cards have point costs, unless they are free and even then you have the opportunity cost of filling the slot)

Which is why I keep mentally falling back to the free TL for ThreatTracker, which brings me to...

31 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Hence, I'd far rather have a sane PS on the uniques and give them means to 'cheat' the PS order.

• Threat Tracker - I don't think you absolutely must have a free target lock for it to work, but it is an expensive bit of kit for situational value without it when considered in the perspective of a 20 point generic or 24 point 'pocket ace'.

I don't think the pocket ace needs the repositioning as much as the highPS needs it, at least the way I understand pocket aces. They partially benefit from being too tough to crack quickly while the rest is attacking, and partially from dishing out too much to be completely ignored, at a point cost that does not really justify wasting e.g. ordnance. OL is the prime example: she will deal a damage per turn, not more. She won't take much damage if at all. She won't be shot by Harpoons, because really, wasting 2 precious Harpoons on her?!

So to me, a pocket ace needs reliable (low) damage and good-ol' tokened-up defense more than Silencer-like defense based on arcdodging. I'm curious to learn how you see and characterize pocket aces, because the closest I ever played enough was Jake - who falls completely out of what I just sketched as pocket ace. And I am really bad with OL, otherwise I'd long since switched to a Vader+QD+OL squad...

But your points are spot on! Epsilon Ace's ability is a good example for what I called "second EPT" before - it functions as VI-replacement and is way better as such, but with a downside.

Also keep in mind that Fenn in the Sheathipede brings a new way to get a high-PS ship when only Fenn needs to fly at highPS. That means that any ship could now become an equivalent of PS11 as long as Fenn is alive. I'm looking forward to try a Jake with PTL+Outmaneuver (or Juke, but I love Outmaneuver) next to such a Fenn.

17 hours ago, GLEXOR said:

Nobody? Nothing? Is it that awful?

Ship glut. We have two waves to sort through. Why add more fan ships.