Pretty much the title.

I'm trying to transcribe some talents from Star Wars to Genesys, and I'm swaying between Tier 2 and Tier 3. It's more similar to Dodge sans the strain cost, but being only applicable to social checks feels like a lower power level.

What are your thoughts?

What's the Talent?

Nobody's Fool

Tier: ?

Activation: Passive

Ranked: Yes

The difficulty of any Charm, Coercion, and Deception checks attempted against you is upgraded once for each rank of Nobody's Fool.

I think 2 is fine.

Looks like they recommend talents that upgrade checks be put in Tier 3 and in that way it will be maximum of 3 ranks or 3 upgrades for the 3 skills.

I'll be interested to see the list of talents you end up putting together. I went through the SW talents over the weekend and put together my own list so it'll be fun to compare.

21 minutes ago, Zszree said:

Looks like they recommend talents that upgrade checks be put in Tier 3 and in that way it will be maximum of 3 ranks or 3 upgrades for the 3 skills.

You can keep taking Tier 5 Ranked Talents.

23 minutes ago, Cyvaris said:

I'll be interested to see the list of talents you end up putting together. I went through the SW talents over the weekend and put together my own list so it'll be fun to compare.

What I've got so far:

Tier 1:

Black Market Contacts, Lethal Blows, Multiple Opponents, Solid Repairs, Strong Arm, Tinkerer

Tier 2:

Body Guard, Improved Quickdraw, Rain of Death

Tier 3:

Nobody's Fool, Sarlacc Sweep (or, well, just Sweep Attack I guess)

Tier 4:

Intense Focus

Tier undecided:

Pressure Point (thinking Tier 3 but unsure)

Some others I want to rewrite (Hawk Bat Swoop as a charge attack; all those "once per session use characteristic X for one skill check" talents rolled into a generic one)

But now I'm tired as heck, I'll continue tomorrow maybe.

Nobody’s Fool is essentially the social combat version of Adversary. If you were to make it a PC talent, where would you put Adversary? You should probably put Nobody’s Fool at that rank or (at most) one rank below.

I'd put Intense Focus at Tier 5. It is crazy powerful, especially for a character good at managing strain.

@Klort That looks reasonably close to what I had, though I dropped Bodyguard to Tier 1, mostly because I think it's a good "core" ability. Here are the others I had.

Tier 1

Distracting behavior, Short Cut, Sound Investments

Tier 2
Brace, Distracting Behavior, Intense Focus, Intimidating, Point Blank, Stim Application

Tier 3

Flourish, Selective Detonation (now applying to Spells)

Tier 4

Feint, Improved Distracting Behavior, Improved Stim Application

Tier 5
Improved Stim Application

Things like Sweep, Swoop, and Overwhelm I'm debating as Talents. I'm toying with a "melee effects" chart like Spells have and currently have Talents like Charge, Sweep etc as part of that.

Any thoughts from the forum on what tier Feral Strength would belong in? It's Tier 1 for Marauder in SW, but it seems like such a no-brainer talent that Tier 1 is way too generous now. Make it a Ranked Talent at Tier 2? Or start at Tier 3?

11 minutes ago, Direach said:

Any thoughts from the forum on what tier Feral Strength would belong in? It's Tier 1 for Marauder in SW, but it seems like such a no-brainer talent that Tier 1 is way too generous now. Make it a Ranked Talent at Tier 2? Or start at Tier 3?

As already mentioned, upgrading effects seems to be in the category of tier 3.

Feral Strength isn't an upgrade effect though, it's a damage adder. Frenzied Attack is an upgrade, I figured that had to be T3. Unless adding damage counts as "upgrading" for this purpose.

5 hours ago, Direach said:

Any thoughts from the forum on what tier Feral Strength would belong in? It's Tier 1 for Marauder in SW, but it seems like such a no-brainer talent that Tier 1 is way too generous now. Make it a Ranked Talent at Tier 2? Or start at Tier 3?

I think I'll scratch Feral Strength, Point Blank and Barrage and roll it all into a modified version of Deadly Accuracy. That seems fitting to me for the generalized approach of the system.

Deadly Accuracy

Tier: 1

Activation: Passive

Ranked: Yes

When purchasing this talent, choose one combat or magic skill. On successful attacks using the chosen skill, add one damage per rank of Deadly Accuracy to one hit of the attack.

7 hours ago, Direach said:

Feral Strength isn't an upgrade effect though, it's a damage adder. Frenzied Attack is an upgrade, I figured that had to be T3. Unless adding damage counts as "upgrading" for this purpose.

Mixed them up. However, it does say damage increasing effects would fit into tier 3 as well.

Since (I'm pretty sure) it's appeared as a tier 1 talent in star wars, I would say tier 1. My default rule for costing would be the cheapest the talent has appeared in any star wars tree (excluding the funky gambler tree).

22 minutes ago, EliasWindrider said:

Since (I'm pretty sure) it's appeared as a tier 1 talent in star wars, I would say tier 1. My default rule for costing would be the cheapest the talent has appeared in any star wars tree (excluding the funky gambler tree).

While true, with the way social encounters work in Genesys, a cheap passive upgrade when targeted by social checks is pretty powerful. There is more incentive for GMs to make social checks against PCs now, so Nobody's Fool will activate a lot more.

I would put it at tier 3. Honestly, I'd tweak the talent a bit, but I'm not sure how. I was thinking of turning it into a social equivalent of Defensive Stance or Dodge, but suffering strain to prevent strain damage seems like a backwards strategy.

14 hours ago, Klort said:

I think I'll scratch Feral Strength, Point Blank and Barrage and roll it all into a modified version of Deadly Accuracy. That seems fitting to me for the generalized approach of the system.

Deadly Accuracy

Tier: 1

Activation: Passive

Ranked: Yes

When purchasing this talent, choose one combat or magic skill. On successful attacks using the chosen skill, add one damage per rank of Deadly Accuracy to one hit of the attack.

That's an excellent idea, although I think I'm going to start it at Tier 2, and limit it to three ranks. It just seems way too good for Tier 1 to me.

11 hours ago, Direach said:

That's an excellent idea, although I think I'm going to start it at Tier 2, and limit it to three ranks. It just seems way too good for Tier 1 to me.

As the rules do not provide for a rank limit on talents, as far as I've read, your feeling impelled to houserule one, might indicate the tier to be too low or the talent itself too powerful.

3 hours ago, Grimmerling said:

As the rules do not provide for a rank limit on talents, as far as I've read, your feeling impelled to houserule one, might indicate the tier to be too low or the talent itself too powerful.

You can impose a limit if you want, but if you want to keep it more "system friendly", bump it up to tier 3. The odds of someone taking it more than 3 times at that point is really, really low. You have to figure that if the game lasts long enough to have pcs with more than 1 tier 5 talent, the pc is going to choose Dedication as one of them. 3 or more tier 5 talents is a long, long game.

Yeah, it's gotta be at Tier 3, because it's something everyone who fights would want to take. My first setting is not going to be Marshal Law; it's going to be an adaptation of a swords and sorcery setting I've been running for a long time. All the characters rely on fighting ability, and a flat damage adder with no strain cost is a no-brainer for this setting and these characters. Thanks for the input, folks!

Sorry for hijacking, but this seemed like a lively thread in which to ask, and I'm nobody's fool.