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CRB Page 16: While characteristics create the foundation of your character's abilities, skills and specialized training really make your player character (PC) stand out from the crowd. Skills represent your character's training and experience in performing specific tasks and actions

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CRB Page 210: All spellcasters, no matter what type of magic they use, also need to have a certain amount of knowledge concerning magic and its possibilities . For this reason, your character is going to benefit greatly from having a couple of ranks in the Knowledge skill if they want to be a spellcaster.

Can someone explain for me why the specific casting skill doesn't fulfil whatever need the Knowledge skill apparently satisfies? Particularly if Knowledge is subdivided into areas as it will be in many (most? Practically all?) settings, it seems like Knowledge here is going to represent a very narrow area requiring a fair number of XP to provide training that they already paid for with their casting skill. The magic skills, like all other skills, aren't just natural ability, they're also training.

Knowledge could represent learning new spells and abilities.

Knowledge adding effects to spells seems like a balancing mechanic to me.

Hmm...CaptainRaspberry made me think of this from a different direction. Maybe this will actually answer my own question in a highly apropos way:

• Magic skill is reading the rulebook . That's all you need to go out and play the game.
• Knowledge skill is reading the forums . That's what you need to really understand the game.

I think I'm good with that.

It's a game balance mechanic to make people invest in more than just 5 ranks in Arcana and be the end all be all Wizard!

4 minutes ago, Swordbreaker said:

Knowledge adding effects to spells seems like a balancing mechanic to me.

Agreed from a mechanical level. But strongly encouraging a purchase needs to have more explanation from the character's perspective or else it seems like an arbitrary imposition.

A character with Intellect 4/Arcana 3 represents a character who can channel and control arcane force to shoot a blast of energy. Knowledge can represent how that character takes that blast of energy and applies it to the world. The difference between just hitting someone with that blast of energy and applying physics to make the blast of energy more potent (as an example).

That's just a possibility. The book's use of Knowledge, to me, is a placeholder. It does make Knowledge skills more valuable, but it could be replaced with other skills depending on the setting. Discipline/Divine and Survival/Primal are two alternatives.

15 minutes ago, Dragonshadow said:

Agreed from a mechanical level. But strongly encouraging a purchase needs to have more explanation from the character's perspective or else it seems like an arbitrary imposition.

Then sell it off as the Knowledge : Lore is the theoretical study of the Arcane Arts, what they can do, and how it will interact with the world.... and the Arcana skill is the actual practice of unleashing said powers unto the world. The actual chanting of the mystic words with the Jack Sparrow-ish hands waving that has to be "just right" in order for it to work.

The difference between book knowledge and field experience.

To take this in a real world comparison.... there are plenty of young men who can huck the heck out of a football. But the ones who stay late for practice and pour over game tapes are the really deadly ones come Sunday. Cause they don't just have the physical act of throwing it down, but also know where best to throw it to really bring down their enemies! ; )

Which is why I am trying to figure out a way to give some similar benefits to Warriors via a talent...but maybe tied to Cunning somehow vs Intellect.

I have a friend who can play jazz guitar very skillfully—his fingerwork and tone are fantastic. But without proper music theory he won't be able to handle sudden key changes or good improv and ruin a recording session, and without knowledge of how to be part of a band he could ruin a concert with overplaying.

So it goes with magic, except your instrument is the building blocks of the universe. So a little theory wouldn't go amiss.

These are pretty good responses. Thanks for that!

What feels bolted on about Knowledge in this context is it only determines how well SOME of the additional effects work, but conspicuously not all, and not even for some of the better ones (like Empowered).

I suppose the fact that it's only applicable to some effects reduces the need to spend XP for Knowledge into simply a choice that won't hamstring a caster if he opts out.

Magic Skill-your inherent "magicness", how close are you to your diety, nature/spirits, or how much magic flows through your veins.

Knowledge would the theoretical study, think Harry Potter.

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