Okay,

The game itself will be cool but as far as I can imagen it will be a tactical pen-and-paper computer game.
Mind you, this is great for short stories but is it realy a Role Playing Game?

I mean:
* Drama, yeas you can tempt them with corruption and unlimited power but not with the loss of a loved one
* You drop them in, have them cause havoc and destroy half the city, still little actual roleplaying

What type of stories with intense roleplaying do you see possible.


Santiago...


ps. I will still be a great NPC book

This it pretty much my problem with the idea. I don't see how you can play any long-term games (like the 2 year DH game I'm in) with Space Marines, and I worry that, even with the drama and stuff that you could bring up between the characters, it'll ultimately come down to shooting your way through waves of enemies before fighting the big bad. I don't see the scope for the social or investigative sides of it, since the Deathwatch are usually called in once the enemy has been found and they need someone to kill it.

I think too many people have made their mind up before seeing what FFG have done with the thing.

At the end of the day, you have Dark Heresy players who don't like Rogue Trader, Rogue Trader players who don't like Dark Heresy, and players of both who don't like the idea of Deathwatch.... but you also have people out there who are happy to play both and more than likey are going to be happy to play Deathwatch too!

I know for a fact I love playing the first two games and I'm just as excited about Deathwatch's release as I was about DH and RT.

At least give it a chance to prove itself before shooting it down in flames is all I'm saying... and if you don't like it then simply don't play it and leave it to those who DO

I think the rpg side of it will be more of the factionalistic side of the adeptus astartes the infighting between chapters and even sometimes sabatoging each side to further themselves im sure its happened before and they arent above doing it again.

heck even the corruption of ones geneseed and the fight to control yourself would be a good aspect, Blood Ravens anyone?

ThenDoctor said:

But if player v player antagonism is the only RPG side, that's not a good thing. It ideally needs to have a lot of flexability, otherwise one game of DW is the same as any other game of DW.

I'm hoping FFG pull it off, but I, for one, need a lot more info about the game before I come to a full decision. I just have my doubts at present that will no doubt be sorted in the future.

Well, I think there is too much sceptism in this and several other topics. Of course there is chance that Deathwatch would be played as "Killdhemall for dee Empraah"RPG but as well I read that some Rogue Trader groups end like "Spedition and Economy in the Grim Darkness of 41st Millenium"RPG.

Adeptus Astartes are Emperor´s living weapons so it´s clear there is strong emphasis on combat (just as Dark Heresy focus on undercover work and Rogue Trader on daring expeditions adn endeavours), but why should be RP taken from it? In BL fiction there is majority of SM novels and still, not all of them are "bunch of Space Marines drop-podded there and chainsword them to oblivion." Take Angels of Darkness, Red Fury, Grey Knights serie, Salamnders, Space Wolf serie, Heroes of the Spacemarines (especialy Headhunted short story by Steve Parker, which is about Deatwatch) and more. They have many fights. But they also have many wonderful story moments of character interaction, mystery solving and deeper motivations that could make a wonderful game sessions/campaigns.

and why shouldnt there be a RPG for action freaks? If you want to do undercover work, have a DH session, explore a new planet, play RT and if you´re in for some killing Deathwatch....i have no prob with different aspects of a game

Heroic deaths and last stands, killing xenos and heretics.

Nurgle said:

I can get those out of DH and probably RT, along with character immersion.

I'm not saying DW is, will be, or inherently has to be devoid of such immersion, it's just that myself (and numerous others by the looks of it) are interested to see what sort of 'character development' we will be able to take to the table in the roles of a space marine.

If I wanted bland combat with little to no reason behind it I'd pull out some 28mm miniatures and some scenery and roll with that.

TorogTarkdacil said:

Indeed. Even in a war-focussed campaign, where the Deathwatch are present to support other Imperial forces in their extermination of an Alien force, there's plenty of room for interaction - briefings and planning sessions with army commanders, negotiations with planetary officials to deploy/hold back/etc their forces, inspiring (or threatening) the lesser servants of the Emperor to fight their hardest, etc. Even in the midst of battle, roleplay is entirely possible (not to mention desirable), as is diversity of challenge (which is the other issue - RPGs aren't just split between 'talking' and 'fighting', afterall) - it's not going to be just 'pod/teleport/fly in by Thunderhawk and kill X number of Xenos'. Even when the group is operating alone, there's still room for plenty of enjoyable interaction within the group - some of the most memorable and in-character games I've GMed have been Aliens-themed ones where the group are Colonial Marines... there aren't really any NPCs for them to interact with, save for the pilot and the lieutenant, but the interactions between the PCs more than makes up for it.

The player disputes angle is an important one - there will invariably by some challenges that no one Marine can defeat alone, meaning that teamwork, and overcoming personal, doctrinal and traditional differences is an important part of success.

I think the "unmoving wall of same" that are space marine personalities has gotten out of control. In the BL fiction they are still human in many ways. Sure there probably won't be a romantic story told, but there can still be betrayal, the heroes journey and a dozen other stories.

Think Iago & Othella. That's the type of story we can tell with space marines.

As I said in a previous thread. Ross Watson probably sees this issue and has taken core steps in the book to address it. Like fluff and GM ideas as well as a few mechanics.

There are plenty of opportunities for roleplaying with SMs... and there are plenty of players who don't care and will play this simply to kick xenos ass. Many D&D games are nothing more than find dungeon-enter dungeon-kill stuff. Any roleplaying is limited to talking to some old geezer in the pub who tells you where the dungeon is.

DW will easily facilitate that kind of campaign, but can also do much, much more. Marines aren't just grunts that get sent to a planet to kill things. A squad of DW marines are a political and military force to be reckoned with. They can easily change the fate of worlds - even sectors. Things you might do in a DW campaign (just off the top of my head):

Kill things (duh).

Interact with planetary nobility/military hierarchy, trying to keep them in line during a purge and stopping their conspiracies from throwing a spanner in the works.

Negotiating (reluctantly) with a xenos faction (such as the Eldar) to deal with a greater threat (and trying to judge the best time to betray them... hopefully before they betray you).

Hunting down a rogue Inquisitor and his lackeys.

Hunting down a rogue Rogue Inquisitor.

Investigating a space hulk/lost colony/cleary occult massacre.

Most of the above can be done in DH and RT, but doing so as Space Marines brings a new perspective to things. Dealing with a genestealer infestation is different if you are an acolyte, a ship master or an Astartes.... as is all of the other options above.

As I said in a seperate thread...I too had these same reservations and worries about this game before I saw the first playtest manuscript.

But I assure you, there are plenty of roleplay opportunities and character 'individualising' options in this game.

One of the things my group always focuses on when playtesting are the options available in any sourcebook or set of rules for making characters individual, for having multiple characters following the same path but maintaining originality. We found very little to complain about on this subject with this book right from the start, and there have even been several improvements and refinements made through the playtest period which improved on what was already a very good starting manuscript.

As for roleplaying that involves more than combat and mass destruction. I can't say anything meaningful without giving away things that i'm not allowed to discuss, but there is plenty to do in this game outside of the combat.

And apart from anything else...the scope of any rpg is limited only by your own imagination.

Savage said:

Though the scope of being able to interact with normal humans when you are a 9 foot fall superman must be less than that of DH and RT, right? I mean, most people would either run away, bow down or start cheering.

It just seems that you can do the epic battles and the like in both DH and RT, but you can't do a lot of the stuff you can do in those games in DW.

You can't do an epic battle in DH on nearly the same scale that the Deathwatch rules allow.

Not even close.

Well I am not yet jumping up and down in joy but I am very curious what FFG made from this game. Yes it could be a gloriefied Dungeon Crawl game with Bolters and we all played our fair share of such a game I am sure. That alone would be interesting, but I love to see where they manage to put non combat RPG interaction in.

Sister Callidia said:

Aye, I'm just hoping it is as good as they say, otherwise it'd be a crying shame.

What's funny is that here's how our play group has divided up with the 40k RPGs. We love the concept and writing for the two released so far and will/have played both, but that said:

I'd rather play Rogue Trader than DH (the freeform feel)

A couple other players would rather play DH than RT (they like the few vs. mysterious ala Cthulhu)

At least one will play either but has been chomping at the bit for this since the rumor balloon went up when Dark Heresy came out.

So there's definitely an interest and plenty of people who have a distinct style interest, so I'm another one out there who's looking forward to seeing how this is handled. I remember playing a Space Marine homebrew using GURPS a looong time ago and it was fun for a while, but had no real longevity. I don't believe FFG doesn't have something interesting planned.

I don't know about you guys I'd like the idea of an Expanse centered game with characters from Dark Heresy, Rogue Trader, and Deathwatch. It could be as simple as an Inquisitor gaining the aid of a Rogue Trader to search for Aquirre's location. The Inq just happens to bring a cadre of Deathwatch to aid him in investigating the Xeno infested territory. Thus your Dark Heresy characters investigate, Rogue Traders explore, and Deathwatch fight it out in ancient Yuvath ruins.

Can I be the first to point out that this will be difficult/impossible to impliment as an RPG setting? Thanks. See you in the "when the hell will this motherfeeler ship?" forum.

Rant.

Best name ever!

My one-word reply to the OP: Bloodquest

schoon said:

Now, if it ends up like Bloodquest, I'll love it forever and will want it's children, because Bloodquest is awesome.

MILLANDSON said:

Well the playtesters seem to like it so I am looking at this optimistically.

Its about time, I personally dislike DH & RT, I for one can't wait for a Space Marine oriented military rpg like this. It is no different than playing Starship Troopers Rpg which i have done for years.

Deathwatch will almost certainly be combat orientated but that doesn't mean there aren't RP opportunities.

Just a couple of a examples of situations;

-An Ordo Xenos Inquisitor has requisitioned a squad of Deathwatch. During the mission the Squad realises he is a radical. His plan will work to destory the xenos but is this a cost the marines are willing to pay?

-The marines are given one briefing about the xenos threat but the situation 'on the ground' is completly different. For whatever reason the isolated Deathwatch team need to come up with a plan that is more than merely fighting there way out of a corner to survive, (fighting a gurilla war for example....).

-The Deathwatch Team encounter a strange and terrible xenos monostrociy, they are helped by an Inquisitor and his retinue. However there direct superior orders them to kill all witnesses......

-The original Chapter the PC belongs to has given him an agenda, perhaps recover a particular xenos artifact.