Looking to run both Devastator and Avenger, because why not, this weekend but can't decide on support. Currently thinking the below is pretty horrible to face - I really want to run Vader with it but can't fit him in without dropping the squads or all the upgrades and title on Avenger.

Dual ISD

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 398/400

Commander: Admiral Motti

Assault Objective: Advanced Gunnery
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Solar Corona

[ flagship ] Imperial I-Class Star Destroyer (110 points)
- Admiral Motti ( 24 points)
- Avenger ( 5 points)
- Agent Kallus ( 3 points)
- Boarding Troopers ( 3 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 149 total ship cost

Imperial I-Class Star Destroyer (110 points)
- Devastator ( 10 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 131 total ship cost

Raider-I Class Corvette (44 points)
= 44 total ship cost

Raider-I Class Corvette (44 points)
= 44 total ship cost

1 Ciena Ree ( 17 points)
1 Valen Rudor ( 13 points)

The other idea is to have three Gozos which will give me points to upgrade the ISDs to be a little more survivable:

Dual ISD pt 2

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 399/400

Commander: Admiral Motti

Assault Objective: Most Wanted
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Solar Corona

[ flagship ] Imperial I-Class Star Destroyer (110 points)
- Admiral Motti ( 24 points)
- Devastator ( 10 points)
- Minister Tua ( 2 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Reinforced Blast Doors ( 5 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 162 total ship cost

Imperial I-Class Star Destroyer (110 points)
- Avenger ( 5 points)
- Agent Kallus ( 3 points)
- Boarding Troopers ( 3 points)
- Quad Laser Turrets ( 5 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 130 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
- Repair Crews ( 4 points) or maybe Suppressor
= 27 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
- Comms Net ( 2 points)
= 25 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
- Comms Net ( 2 points)
= 25 total ship cost

1 Ciena Ree ( 17 points)
1 Valen Rudor ( 13 points)

A similar list to the above came last at the Mountain View Regionals but I'm not entirely sure why - any thoughts appreciated.

I find that having a one and a two gives you a better chance vs a larger number of fleets, with the two doing the heavy lifting bs swarms with its Gunnery teams, and the one going after high value targets. Try to get ECM onto both ships as large ships (especially ackbar death pickles) are definitly a thing right now (at least in my meta). Below is my current favorite Double ISD list, and I think I have min/maxed it to the best of my ability. Let me know if it gives you any ideas or if you have any questions.

Double D

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 396/400

Commander: Admiral Motti

Assault Objective: Most Wanted
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Salvage Run

[ flagship ] Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120 points)
- Admiral Motti ( 24 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)
- Quad Battery Turrets ( 5 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 167 total ship cost

Imperial I-Class Star Destroyer (110 points)
- Avenger ( 5 points)
- Minister Tua ( 2 points)
- Boarding Troopers ( 3 points)
- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 131 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
- Comms Net ( 2 points)
= 25 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
- Comms Net ( 2 points)
= 25 total ship cost

6 TIE Fighter Squadrons ( 48 points)

I’ve found this setup to strike the perfect balance between activations, ship to ship firepower, deployments, and squadron support. If you really wanted to fit Devastator in there (it’s a great title, why not right?) I’d cut QBT first for it. Everything else is pretty much necessary to keep it all chugging along. However if you feel you will be going up against more bombers/swarms instead of large bases you can swap the ECM’s on both ships for RBD. Won’t help vs large die pools with an accuracy, but 17 hull ISD’s are pretty tanky even without ECM.

Thanks for the reply - I keep wanting to put a 2 in there but BTA needs a 1 and with Devastator if you dump 2-3 tokens you have pretty much have a 2 at medium range anyway. The other advantage of 2s is, as in your version, ECMs but with Motti they aren't really needed and not so good for Devastator either. The list is to counter BTA lists so ECM won't help there either!

Interested to hear how you deal with squads as that's the main weakness imo - you think 6 TIEs are better than Ciena/Valen, how about 4 TIEs or two TIE-Ins? I'd like 5 activations but I love Raiders and thought two would be nasty to help against flankers and extra flak.

Tempted to go squadronless and have Avenger be a 2 with GT and put in Suppressor and/or slicer tools but I think the list would get eaten by bombers.

39 minutes ago, Kendraam said:

Thanks for the reply - I keep wanting to put a 2 in there but BTA needs a 1 and with Devastator if you dump 2-3 tokens you have pretty much have a 2 at medium range anyway. The other advantage of 2s is, as in your version, ECMs but with Motti they aren't really needed and not so good for Devastator either. The list is to counter BTA lists so ECM won't help there either!

Interested to hear how you deal with squads as that's the main weakness imo - you think 6 TIEs are better than Ciena/Valen, how about 4 TIEs or two TIE-Ins? I'd like 5 activations but I love Raiders and thought two would be nasty to help against flankers and extra flak.

Tempted to go squadronless and have Avenger be a 2 with GT and put in Suppressor and/or slicer tools but I think the list would get eaten by bombers.

ECMs go very well with Devastator. They allow you to spend and discard the defense tokens your opponent locked down with accuracies thus increasing your firepower. I agree with Moose that you should try to make one of the ISDs a 2. The TIEs in his list aren't there to eliminate enemy squads so much as lock them down. 6 TIEs should give you an extra round of that over Valen/Ciena.

32 minutes ago, Megatronrex said:

ECMs go very well with Devastator. They allow you to spend and discard the defense tokens your opponent locked down with accuracies thus increasing your firepower. I agree with Moose that you should try to make one of the ISDs a 2. The TIEs in his list aren't there to eliminate enemy squads so much as lock them down. 6 TIEs should give you an extra round of that over Valen/Ciena.

I meant once your tokens are gone but thanks for the feedback - tempted to try the following now; still not sure on the squads and only 4 activations, 400pts is just not enough!

Dual ISD pt3

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 398/400

Commander: Admiral Motti

Assault Objective: Most Wanted
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Solar Corona

[ flagship ] Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120 points)
- Admiral Motti ( 24 points)
- Avenger ( 5 points)
- Agent Kallus ( 3 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Quad Laser Turrets ( 5 points)
- Reinforced Blast Doors ( 5 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 173 total ship cost

Imperial I-Class Star Destroyer (110 points)
- Devastator ( 10 points)
- Minister Tua ( 2 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 140 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
- Suppressor ( 4 points)
= 27 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
- Comms Net ( 2 points)
= 25 total ship cost

1 Black Squadron ( 9 points)
3 TIE Fighter Squadrons ( 24 points)

3 hours ago, Kendraam said:

Thanks for the reply - I keep wanting to put a 2 in there but BTA needs a 1 and with Devastator if you dump 2-3 tokens you have pretty much have a 2 at medium range anyway. The other advantage of 2s is, as in your version, ECMs but with Motti they aren't really needed and not so good for Devastator either. The list is to counter BTA lists so ECM won't help there either!

Interested to hear how you deal with squads as that's the main weakness imo - you think 6 TIEs are better than Ciena/Valen, how about 4 TIEs or two TIE-Ins? I'd like 5 activations but I love Raiders and thought two would be nasty to help against flankers and extra flak.

Tempted to go squadronless and have Avenger be a 2 with GT and put in Suppressor and/or slicer tools but I think the list would get eaten by bombers.

I like Devastator on a two because you can kill a small base with a normal medium range shot, and can sometimes pull off a long range kill as well with your super shot. I have tried Avenger on the Gunnery teams isd 2, but unless you have bombers to activate with Avenger, it becomes hard to pull off anything meaningful with it as suppressor and other shots have too many moving parts to be reliable. I like BTA because it’s one self contained death ship that can exhaust tokens and then fire within its own activation, and with more firepower due to the black dice (I’ve taken out a full health full shields mc80 eight a double arc before. I’ve also only plinked 3 shields off after a Lando re-roll so ymmv). Plus with just tua/ECM, BTA, and leading shots it keeps it pretty cheap, so even if you lose it it ends up not costing you the game. However if you keep them in formation, you will often enough lose neither of them, as once one starts really hurting you can disengage and block access to it with your other ISD, which should be untouched and unkillable by this point of the game (barring Intel Officer mc30/glad).

Idk what your meta is like, but here ECM is Most definitly needed, even on Motti ISD’s. You take 8+ damage from a pickle or a shrimp with XI-7 and an acc on the brace and you are going to be hurting, Motti or not

As far as squads go, you’d be surprised how much you can take out with only 6 ties. Formation flying helps here too in the form of overlapping ship flak. The key is to give up the notion of an alpha strike intercepting their bombers. Let their squads make a first bombing run on one of your ships, those beasts can take it (and if it’s vs Devastator, free power ups!). Then retaliate with your ties and ship flak (another reason I love GT on the two, you can shoot ships and squads, and Devastator can even be added vs a squad you really need to take out). Use your ties to engage the outer edges of the bomber ball and whittle them down to 1 or 2 health a piece so that your ship AA can finish them off. You can kill most of the threatening bombers or at least force them to disengage and quit targeting your ships with a single round of fire ( though against a more aggressive opponent that keeps them in there, with clever positioning those 6 ties can last 3+ rounds, which gives yu plenty of time to kill the carriers)

Why do you have black squad in there? For the extra counter? I guess he could be good as the first tie to throw in as he won’t be missing out on a swarm re-roll

And four activations are plenty when two of them are ISD’s!

Great info - thanks

I think I'm trying to do too many things - my thoughts: Devastator, lose a couple of tokens and it's then basically an ISD2 with added punch at close range (I used to run it with a TS Interdictor but fancied chucking in Avenger for the lols) but needs health, so Motti and as it's an ISD1, Tua and RBDs as it's to designed to go against enemy Avengers and won't have tokens to use ECM on.

So, Avenger, going BTA means another ISD1 and since only 1 Tua, who's on Devastator, and with two Offensive slots I can go BT with Kallus/QLT meaning enemy squads take lots of flak damage or target Devastator stripping it's tokens.

Suppressor is for Devastator not Avenger if running BTA - however I do like an ISD2 but can't run Kallus/QLT and BT so lets go GT instead and not go close range; here Suppressor can help both ISDs if I have 5 activations.

ECM as you suggest is great on either title but those extra two points...although, if I drop Black I could go ECM instead of RBD on the ISD2.

Or maybe change it around and have a lean BTA ISD1 and an ISD2 Devastator; but then Kallus/QLT is great on Avenger against scatter aces but can't run Kallus and Tua.

It's a toughie but I'll keep playing around - you sure 4 activations is enough going second?

Seeing so many dual ISD lists I could not resist to post one of my own as the archetype is my favorite!

=====================================

Dual ISD

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 399/400

Commander: Moff Jerjerrod

Assault Objective: Station Assault
Defense Objective: Capture the VIP
Navigation Objective: Solar Corona

Imperial I-Class Star Destroyer (110 points)
- Captain Needa ( 2 points)
= 112 total ship cost

[ flagship ] Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120 points)
- Moff Jerjerrod ( 23 points)
- Relentless ( 3 points)
- Skilled First Officer ( 1 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Spinal Armament ( 9 points)
= 163 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
= 23 total ship cost

1 Maarek Steele ( 21 points)
1 Colonel Jendon ( 20 points)
1 Boba Fett ( 26 points)
1 Valen Rudor ( 13 points)
1 IG-88 ( 21 points)

=====================================

Commenting on choices:

Ship and commander selection:

- Not both ISDs will be fighting close. The other is usually trying to get around while the other takes the brunt of the enemy fire, hence an ISD1 without a gunnery team.

- Gozanti is used to activate Jendon and Steele but it also increases activations by one

- Jerjerrod is the more balanced choice vs. Motti, enhancing ISDs' agility greatly.

ISD2 configuration:

- The idea is that this ISD will not be shot at so much, and can get away with using Concentrate Fire + Spinal Armament (at least 6 reds shots).

- Relentless combined with a Skilled first officer allows fast repairing and taking navigation commands in later rounds. This should be more optimal than, e.g., RBD or ECM which will turn out empty bets in some percentage of matches.

- The configuration is definitely better than any utilizing Leading Shots (Why would you give away a die with a non-blank result in the first place?), Quad Battery Turrets (You want to have speed at 3) or XI7 (Spinal ISD shots tend to contain enough accuracies, having Spinal makes shots actually dangerous).

Squadrons:

- It may come as a surprise but the squadrons are possibly the most dangerous part of the list. If you are too afraid to drive close with the ISDs, or if some lists turn out to be too dodgy, at least the squadrons will do some damage. Vs. the most squadron focused lists you might want to wait for the enemy to come to you, however.

- Global double-activating Stele with Jendon is a great combo, and if the opponent is trying to get away without squadrons, well, at least to my experience, he cannot.

- I am not 100% sure which squadron combination is the most optimal, but believe this is quite close.

Overall thoughts on the list:

- Versatile, does not mind losing any single component.

- 3 speed ISDs with Jerjerrod agility are truly something. You should not forget about ramming with these things.

- It is difficult to find better investments for your points.

- The list does not mind going second. The listed objectives are some that should work for your favor, but I believe most of the objectives are fine to play vs. any list with this list.

- A Gladiator instead of the ISD1 could be better. The points saved would buff your squadron regiment.

2 minutes ago, Kendraam said:

Or maybe change it around and have a lean BTA ISD1 and an ISD2 Devastator;

This is the best way I’ve found of doing it. It seems more natural for each ships role too. I mean, you need to be in close range for BT anyway, may as well have stronger dice!

but then Kallus/QLT is great on Avenger against scatter aces but can't run Kallus and Tua.

Kallus can be very powerful, but if you run up against a generic swarm it’s next to useless.... I’m always hesitant to take upgrades that have the potential to provide no benifit to your Fleet (exception: Damage control officer- I love that card on big ships so much). I look at it like this- I could beef up the ships more for AA, but run the risk of no uniques or squads simply going after the other ship. Plus if that ship goes down, that’s even more points you’ve given away. With those points invested into more squads, you can get another deployment and be more efficient and precise with your own anti-squad shots.

It's a toughie but I'll keep playing around - you sure 4 activations is enough going second?

4 is plenty, especially going second. With those two ships you can easily threaten 3+ ships at once. Patience is key here. Don’t just gow throwing your ships around will nilly. Approach your prey in formation, I like goz/ISD2/goz/ISD1 with the 2 on the outermost edge. This will prevent most enemy ships from being able to just zoom past your front arc and avoid all that firepower. When you see an opening, ie- enemy fleet is now reachable within your effective combat range pending your next move, pounce. Shove the 2 into medium range of 2 small base ships. Jam that BTA into the enemy pickles nose/side arc. You can take a hit from whatever ship they activate. Then (hopefully) that ship can’t move past you (thanks gozantis!), and you are free to activate your other ship and eliminate whatever it was threatening, with whichever one got shot at already free to activate at its leisure since its threated ship has already gone.

Hopefully my ramblings made some sort of sense to you lol

Ok - I think I'm going to use the following as a base:

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 352/400

Commander: Admiral Motti

Assault Objective: Most Wanted
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Solar Corona

[ flagship ] Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120 points)
- Admiral Motti ( 24 points)
- Devastator ( 10 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 172 total ship cost

Imperial I-Class Star Destroyer (110 points)
- Avenger ( 5 points)
- Agent Kallus ( 3 points)
- Boarding Troopers ( 3 points)
- Quad Laser Turrets ( 5 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 130 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
- Comms Net ( 2 points)
= 25 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
- Comms Net ( 2 points)
= 25 total ship cost

This leaves 48 points for one of the following:

a) A Raider I with Flechettes - total 399 [5 activations, 5 deployments, no squads]

b) A 3rd Gozanti, two TIE-In and maybe Needa on Devastator to help dump tokens - total 397/399 [5 activations, 6 deployments, 2 squads]

c) Six TIEs and maybe dropping ECM to RBD to have a bit of a bid - total 398/400 [4 activations, 7 deployments, 6 squads]

d) Drop ECM for RBD and both Comms Nets for a 3rd Gozanti, Ciena & Valen - total 399 [5 activations, 6 deployments, 2 ace squads]

Think I'm tempted to for option b)

Obviously my pick is C based on what I have in my own list lol. However, option B is also viable as another activation never hurts, Needa is great on Devastator, and if you are comfortable going with two basic ties I’ve used it to some success and seen it used successfully, you just have to be VERY precise with your timing on when to throw them in.

One thing to be careful about, without ECM/RBD on Avenger it will be much easier to take out, so it might not buy you as much time if they target it, meaning if they kill it quick enough they will have time to start laying into your other ISD as well... By beefing up both ISD’s you make it a tougher choice with who target, and make it a real slog to try to take down even one of them. I’ve finished plenty of games with both ISD’s full hull because an opponent decided they weren’t worth the effort and just went after the gozantis-which I am ok with! I’ve also had games where they pumped 4 rounds of firepower into one of the Destroyers (usually Avenger) and it didn’t even go down.... it all comes down to points, but the stingier you are with giving them away the better your score will be!

20 hours ago, Kendraam said:

Ok - I think I'm going to use the following as a base:

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 352/400

Commander: Admiral Motti

Assault Objective: Most Wanted
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Solar Corona

[ flagship ] Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120 points)
- Admiral Motti ( 24 points)
- Devastator ( 10 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 172 total ship cost

Imperial I-Class Star Destroyer (110 points)
- Avenger ( 5 points)
- Agent Kallus ( 3 points)
- Boarding Troopers ( 3 points)
- Quad Laser Turrets ( 5 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 130 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
- Comms Net ( 2 points)
= 25 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
- Comms Net ( 2 points)
= 25 total ship cost

This leaves 48 points for one of the following:

a) A Raider I with Flechettes - total 399 [5 activations, 5 deployments, no squads]

b) A 3rd Gozanti, two TIE-In and maybe Needa on Devastator to help dump tokens - total 397/399 [5 activations, 6 deployments, 2 squads]

c) Six TIEs and maybe dropping ECM to RBD to have a bit of a bid - total 398/400 [4 activations, 7 deployments, 6 squads]

d) Drop ECM for RBD and both Comms Nets for a 3rd Gozanti, Ciena & Valen - total 399 [5 activations, 6 deployments, 2 ace squads]

Think I'm tempted to for option b)

I really don't want to draw you..... Is it too late to not loan you an ISD now? LOL

@MandalorianMoose if youwant to see my choice in action we're just about to start on live-stream http://twitch.tv/kirtongames

I love the dual ISD II combo. GT and LS is mandatory. I would trade Motti for ECM, those 3 hull aren't much good if you get your brace taken away by accuracy results. Then use Jerjerrod.

I'm not a fan of the ISD I even with rerolls. I don't have much luck getting hit/crit on those black dice but blue dice will always give you something. ISD II can pop CR90s, GR75s, and Hammerheads at medium range in one shot.

Was only a 6 player Q3/4 kit tourney but I won it with the following:

Devastating Avenger

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 399/400

Commander: Admiral Motti

Assault Objective: Most Wanted
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Solar Corona

[ flagship ] Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120 points)
- Admiral Motti ( 24 points)
- Devastator ( 10 points)
- Agent Kallus ( 3 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Reinforced Blast Doors ( 5 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 173 total ship cost

Imperial I-Class Star Destroyer (110 points)
- Avenger ( 5 points)
- Minister Tua ( 2 points)
- Boarding Troopers ( 3 points)
- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 131 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
- Comms Net ( 2 points)
= 25 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
- Comms Net ( 2 points)
= 25 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
= 23 total ship cost

2 TIE Interceptor Squadrons ( 22 points)

Didn't face a dedicated bomber list so was really tested against it's likely nemesis.

Game One: versus ISD, Quasar, Demo and 5 scatter aces. Lost the bid and had second player 5 activations was key won 9-2

Game Two: versus Akbar MC-80, MC-30, two CR-90s 6 vanilla squads and Hera. Won bid and had first/last - tabled the Rebels for loss of my two TIE-Ins 10-1

Game Three: versus @Phil B running Demo, 2 Glads, 3 Goz and 4 Decimators. Lost bid and went second again. Struggled to catch his Glads and only killed two Gozos. Narrowly missed killing Demo and the Decis mauled Avenger with the last 3 hull going on the final 3 blue roll from the final Deci at the end of turn 6! 5-6 loss, great game.

So, not sure what to change - needs more squads but the 5th activation is key. Could drop RBD and Kallus to upgrade the fighters to Ciena & Valen. I didn't get a single extra blue from Devastator the whole tourney but the threat was there and everyone ignored it, removing RBD might make it more of a target, which may or may not be a good thing.

Really want Kallus/QLT on Avenger but ECM was amazing.

Decisions, decisions!

2 hours ago, Kendraam said:

So, not sure what to change - needs more squads but the 5th activation is key. Could drop RBD and Kallus to upgrade the fighters to Ciena & Valen. I didn't get a single extra blue from Devastator the whole tourney but the threat was there and everyone ignored it, removing RBD might make it more of a target, which may or may not be a good thing.

Really want Kallus/QLT on Avenger but ECM was amazing.

Decisions, decisions!

Nice! I totally agree that 5th activation bumps 2ISD list to a different class, so it is more important. I'm not convinced about Avenger ECM - how often did it come into play/prevented Avenger from being destroyed before delivering the shot? I also think that in a list like this the main source of points may be Devastator title itself.

6 hours ago, PT106 said:

Nice! I totally agree that 5th activation bumps 2ISD list to a different class, so it is more important. I'm not convinced about Avenger ECM - how often did it come into play/prevented Avenger from being destroyed before delivering the shot? I also think that in a list like this the main source of points may be Devastator title itself.

ECM is hugely important against every large ship except BTA. I plan on taking Advanced Gunnery if offered when going first and ECM would allow Avenger to survive the approach.

I used it a lot, against the MC-80, a non-BTA ISD in round one and to redirect/brace some of the Deci hits in round three. Would rate over RBDs for Avenger.

The plan when facing a BTA is to send Devastator in, hopefully powering up on the approach and using RBD to survive.

Devastator title is a lot of points but presents your opponent with a choice of either ignoring you or powering you up; either is good ?