4 minutes ago, GroggyGolem said:It does in Star Wars, so assuming it didn't change, then yes, you would subtract Soak from the Burn damage. Personally I'm not a fan of that but it is what it is, likely for game balance.
This makes the destructive effect very attractive. Although it costs 2 purple you gain piercing [ranks in knowledge] and knowledge should be high for very caster. There are plenty of yummy opportunities.
Aren't the odds of casting a spell like this comparable to using a ranged weapon at medium range that has multiple qualities? Why should the magic user have better odds than the other characters to hit/do amazing things?
1 minute ago, lupex said:Aren't the odds of casting a spell like this comparable to using a ranged weapon at medium range that has multiple qualities? Why should the magic user have better odds than the other characters to hit/do amazing things?
Perhaps because he's eating himself to do it? -2 Strain every time.
Just now, lupex said:Aren't the odds of casting a spell like this comparable to using a ranged weapon at medium range that has multiple qualities? Why should the magic user have better odds than the other characters to hit/do amazing things?
Probably because they are paying a steeper cost to accomplish the same thing, so the payout should be a little better. I guess that's where the variable nature of the magic actions come in, right? Because you're not stuck with only a short range blast attack, you can alter it to fit the situation?
A mage who casts a short range blast attack and aims twice is rolling against 2 difficulty & taking 4 strain
A character using a shotgun at short range & aiming twice is rolling against 1 difficulty & taking 2 strain
Just now, GroggyGolem said:Probably because they are paying a steeper cost to accomplish the same thing, so the payout should be a little better. I guess that's where the variable nature of the magic actions come in, right? Because you're not stuck with only a short range blast attack, you can alter it to fit the situation?
I disagree with this assumption. If I'm using a variable power to accomplish something, it should be more expensive or less effective than a dedicated talent.
Magic should always be worse than a gun, from a game balance perspective. Why? Because a gun can't buff me and my allies, or heal me, or whatever.
Magic offers you a wide variety of tools that you can use while you're naked. The benefit is that you can use a wide variety of tools while you're naked. A gun should be slightly better than a firebolt, because it can't be used for anything else.
So I don't mean to disparage anyone here, but I feel like the complaints about magic are basically "people who expect prequel Jedi" for Genesys. The force users in Force and Destiny aren't intended to be anything like the Old Republic Jedi; they're more like Kyle Katarn in the final good Dark Forces game, Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight. The one where they weren't shooting the Force into people with a stick.
And what you see over time with these neophytes is that they're probably underpowered relative to non-Force users until about the 100, 150 earned XP mark when they really came into their own.
Now, like everyone else I've had this book a week (I know some have had it longer) so I've not had time to play magic out, but reading through the chapter it feels very much like the Force of this setting. You'll be weak when you start out. You won't be able to weave multiple effects into a spell. In fact, it will probably be when you get Int to +5 (as per @DarthGM's point) and are rolling at least 4-5 yellows that you start to reliably create big bang explosions.
That's ok. Fantasy is full of instances of powerful mages being older, and their apprentices chafing at the pace of learning. If you want to be an Elminster, a Gandalf, etc it's going to take your whole life.
I may be missing something but I feel like the system gets the balance dead on.
Burn, I believe, is soaked. Normally the burn is equal to the base damage for X rounds, x being ranks in knowledge in this case. 4 rounds of burn is pretty heavy I think.
However, base damage would max at 6....
5 minutes ago, Forgive said:Burn, I believe, is soaked. Normally the burn is equal to the base damage for X rounds, x being ranks in knowledge in this case. 4 rounds of burn is pretty heavy I think.
However, base damage would max at 6....
Does burn get a damage boost from an implement?
1 minute ago, Dragonshadow said:Does burn get a damage boost from an implement?
OH! Yes! It does specify that it adds to base damage....could reach 10 base damage with max'd stat and great implement. Then a burn X is looking pretty phenomenal
31 minutes ago, GroggyGolem said:It does in Star Wars, so assuming it didn't change, then yes, you would subtract Soak from the Burn damage. Personally I'm not a fan of that but it is what it is, likely for game balance.
Considering Burn damage is the base damage of the attack (not the rating for Burn), I'm fine with Soak applying. That could be as high as 10 points each round with an Intellect of 5 and the Empowered modifier.
5 minutes ago, Forgive said:OH! Yes! It does specify that it adds to base damage....could reach 10 base damage with max'd stat and great implement. Then a burn X is looking pretty phenomenal
Actually I forgot about that; so an Empowered spell with an Intellect of 5 and a staff could make that a 14 point Burn for (Knowledge Rank) rounds...
4 minutes ago, DarthGM said:Actually I forgot about that; so an Empowered spell with an Intellect of 5 and a staff could make that a 14 point Burn for (Knowledge Rank) rounds...
Of course, by the time a character has all that, the opposition should also be pretty tough. I don't have Genesys in front of me, but in SWRPG, burning can be stopped with a simple or average coordination check. If it is the same in Genesys, then a high damage burn is likely going to do damage twice and take up one of the target's action.
15 minutes ago, CitizenKeen said:I disagree with this assumption. If I'm using a variable power to accomplish something, it should be more expensive or less effective than a dedicated talent.
Magic should always be worse than a gun, from a game balance perspective. Why? Because a gun can't buff me and my allies, or heal me, or whatever.
Magic offers you a wide variety of tools that you can use while you're naked. The benefit is that you can use a wide variety of tools while you're naked. A gun should be slightly better than a firebolt, because it can't be used for anything else.
Well and that is why I put that in as a question in my post, which you quoted but seemed to ignore. I was asking if that is the case, that because it's offering more effects, it's got a steeper price. Sounds fair to me if that's how it's intended.
26 minutes ago, CitizenKeen said:I disagree with this assumption. If I'm using a variable power to accomplish something, it should be more expensive or less effective than a dedicated talent.
Magic should always be worse than a gun, from a game balance perspective. Why? Because a gun can't buff me and my allies, or heal me, or whatever.
Magic offers you a wide variety of tools that you can use while you're naked. The benefit is that you can use a wide variety of tools while you're naked. A gun should be slightly better than a firebolt, because it can't be used for anything else.
This, really. The book even says that anything that can be done with magic that can also be done mundanely should be harder when done magically.
If you want to blast 'em all the time, get some grenades! You want to be versatile, get some magics.
11 minutes ago, DarthGM said:Considering Burn damage is the base damage of the attack (not the rating for Burn), I'm fine with Soak applying. That could be as high as 10 points each round with an Intellect of 5 and the Empowered modifier.
Sure that empowered also applies to the burn quality and not only to the initial damage of the attack spell?
6 minutes ago, DarthDude said:Sure that empowered also applies to the burn quality and not only to the initial damage of the attack spell?
I am; because you're affecting the base damage of the attack, the same way the staff's +4 damage affects the base damage of the attack.
1 minute ago, DarthGM said:I am; because you're affecting the base damage of the attack, the same way the staff's +4 damage affects the base damage of the attack.
Wow, this makes empowered really heftly because you do not need any ^ to trigger that effect.
Just now, DarthDude said:Wow, this makes empowered really heftly because you do not need any ^ to trigger that effect.
Which is why it's +2 difficulty.
Just now, DarthGM said:Which is why it's +2 difficulty.
And...would burn also last 10 rounds instead of 5 rounds, knowledge 5 provided?
10 minutes ago, DarthDude said:And...would burn also last 10 rounds instead of 5 rounds, knowledge 5 provided?
No, because there's nothing in Empowered that says it increases the rating on any qualities
1 hour ago, GroggyGolem said:Probably because they are paying a steeper cost to accomplish the same thing, so the payout should be a little better. I guess that's where the variable nature of the magic actions come in, right? Because you're not stuck with only a short range blast attack, you can alter it to fit the situation?
A mage who casts a short range blast attack and aims twice is rolling against 2 difficulty & taking 4 strain
A character using a shotgun at short range & aiming twice is rolling against 1 difficulty & taking 2 strain
Except the guy with the shotgun needs a shotgun and the mage needs his fingers....
1 minute ago, 2P51 said:Except the guy with the shotgun needs a shotgun and the mage needs his fingers....
yep, that's another good point, no items or materials needed to cast in this system.
Plus mister shotgun can't conjure me a beer.....
11 minutes ago, 2P51 said:Plus mister shotgun can't conjure me a beer.....
40 minutes ago, GroggyGolem said:yep, that's another good point, no items or materials needed to cast in this system.
True, but for great effectiveness, an item is required. A laser rifle is 8 damage base. A magus attack is base damage (skill)...big difference unless wizard has a good implement.