I have been playing the aggressor ever since it launched, actively (if not exclusively) during its first year and on and off as new waves were released which made it harder and harder to pilot. I still flew them actively during the terrible days of dead eye uboats (and did quite well with them). The ship is versatile, interesting and a challenge to fly. Now as I compare it to the Tie Silencer, I am left scratching my head at how terribly outclassed it is.

Typically, dual IG-88s are seen at 50 point a piece. Kylo is short of 50 points and for that cost he has:
- A PS 9
- Same attack power
- Title that is, in most situations, a form of integrated predator and a last ditch save
- PTL and advanced sensor combo (or PTL, FCS and threat tracker or other combo)
- A tech upgrade to further increase its mobility
- A better dial with green turns
- Faster speed in a straight line (without boost), same speed (with boost)
- Does not lose half of its points when shields and 1 hull are gone
- No dependence on another ship for its ability
- Kylo’s ability, which could actually make someone regret hitting him

The only edge that the Aggressor has it:
- IG-88’s ability (most typically B and C)
- An illicit slot and a bomb slot
- Cannons along with IG-88 B’s ability (which is nice, but not easy to use against arc dodgers at PS6)
- Shared abilities (which can be lost)
- An evade action
- 2 shields

During casual game nights, I still win with my IG-88 against Quickdraw, Vader and other high PS opponents. Half of those victories, however, would be turned to losses in a tournament due to the time limit and the fact that typically, an IG-88 loses half of its points very early on, even if played perfectly.

I know that I am not unbiased (as I do love my aggressors), but it the fast approaching Meta, I feel as though the IG-88 could really use a helping hand. In the meantime, if the need to revisit the good old days pops up, I think I’ll just pick up Kylo, add a few hard hitters and fly those instead.

I’ll just pretend that Kylo is IG-88 E or something. He won’t have the ion cannons to capture a bounty alive, but right now, he’s just better at practically everything that IG-88 ever did.

And?

X7s were already better aggressors, having a similar defensive profile, and would easily outfight them despite not having the little tricks.

They're not much of a benchmark anymore, even if ig88b is offensively FAR superior to x7s or kylo

No, it's definitely a much worse Aggressor.

No free evade, no gunner, no cannon slot, no illicit, 2 less hull, same cost. All the stuff you get to offset those HARD MATERIAL BENEFITS are pretty much just fluff.

I'm a Brobot guy too, but I don't think Kylo is much better for only the 3 points less. Kylo will need to spend actions dodging arcs, but once he gets caught he will get shredded. Kylo's offense does not compare to the HLCs.

Also, IG-88s typically run 50 points a piece when run with HLC, which Kylo can’t take.

Take away the HLCs but keep the other upgrades in place and lo and behold, they’re about the same price as Kylo.

3 minutes ago, Herowannabe said:

Also, IG-88s typically run 50 points a piece when run with HLC, which Kylo can’t take.

Take away the HLCs but keep the other upgrades in place and lo and behold, they’re about the same price as Kylo.

Yah, you can't compare a 50 point IG to an almost 50 point kylo and say they ahve the same attack power when a 50 point IG almost always has HLC. And the title isn't that big a point in kylo's favor when IG usually has FCS to reroll as many dice as you want. And gunner from IG-B.

Well that and you never play gressors without HLC B

That's kinda they're claim to fame, esp during the Palp ace era

which is why i really wish they were 4-6pts cheaper and the title added that back in instead of being free.

They do jack squat unless B is around for their price.

...so what you're all saying is, it's time to start putting BroBots on the table again?

Just now, FTS Gecko said:

...so what you're all saying is, it's time to start putting BroBots on the table again?

Insert "dewit" here

2 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Insert "" here

Only thing keeping me from Brobots was bomb spam K-wings, but that's fixed. I just need to get the new hotnesses out of my system first. Oh, and Contraband Cybernetics is probably the best upgrade IGs have received since Glitterstim/Crackshot.

Edit: Also, thanks FFG for Linked Batteries...?

I’m not really sure the Silencer compares to other ships to be honest. The closest comparisons are probably within the same faction, Defenders and SFs. Both missing a native Evade but both possible of gaining a second action from somewhere. All have the same basic stat line and at the PS 5-6 range act in pretty similar ways with slightly different move sets. With Pattern Analyser the Silencer and SF can mimic the white k-turn by gaining an action even if they can’t flip turn after turn.

The IG2000 really is a different class of shiP altogether. Yeah it’s a heavy fighter type with high agility and health and decent damage output but it as a large base it flies like it’s own thing, and with a forward only arc on a large base it’s a more difficult prospect to fly, even though the arc covers more board area.

The Silencer feels like it fits a few roles. One of those is Kylo as a high PS arc Dodger. This is most like Vader, Fel or Corran Horn but still really different. Like we can see it’s similar but it’s not going to be the same. It’s not as Tanky as Fel for example, as consistent as Vader or as dangerous as Corran Horn.

The other Silencers feel like they will fill different roles again which makes the ship interesting even if it isn’t amazing out of the gate.

I wouldn’t get too hung up on the aggressor vs Silencer statline. They both seem to have their own completely different strengths and weaknesses. And more importantly, it’s aboyt finding a place for them within their own faction.

One other nice thing about IG88 over Kylo is that our droid friends normally cumbersome large base is immune to the movement part of tractor beam and is slower to be ion cannoned. Which are very nice features to have these days. Now the new Debris gambit is actually an interesting upgrade for them as well, being large they are often in range of more things, obstacles included, if you have the skill to fly well.

So is Kylo a better dodger? Sure. Better ship? No, just different. I still wish Crew IG let your other ships use the ship he's on ability as well but alas can't have it all.

Debris Gambit is small only, they cant use it.

Theres a lot of things about the iggy ships that would become immensely broken if they were a small base. Thats pretty much the only reason theyre large.

Out of curiosity, what becomes "immensely broken" if IG-2000 was Small-based?

17 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

Out of curiosity, what becomes "immensely broken" if IG-2000 was Small-based?

The points, I guess. I must say it: conceding (is that a word? I suck in english) 25 points just for 4 shields down is pretty annoying.

Yes. IG-2000 was a victim of the stupid, kludgey half-MoV rules, not the intended target. (C.f., Lambda, Firespray.) It certainly contributed to their slow slide into irrelevance.

We're WAY past due for everything-is-half-MoV.

IMO, Kylo/the Silencer costs the perfect amount, give or take however much you penalize large ships for being easier targets and more difficult to move. Two shields and Evade, not to mention a couple upgrade options, is nothing to sneeze at.

10 minutes ago, ObiWonka said:

We're WAY past due for everything-is-half-MoV.

If you want to see nothing (again) on the board but turreted Large ships, this is for sure the way to achieve that.

Half-MoV was kludged together in response to Large turreted ships with Engine Upgrade. These ships would arc-dodge and (more so) range away from retaliatory shots, so they were immensely difficult to kill. Rather than find a way to nerf Large boost (and there is a way), FFG created the tournament-rule kludge of half-MoV. (So now we have a tournament-only rule that actually forces design decisions on FFG for all Large ships, in all formats. Just think about that for a second.)

As it turned out, Engine Upgrade on turreted Large ships is so powerful, some of them survived the kludge to remain competitive anyway. But if you equalize the Kludge, putting half-MoV on all ships, not only do you make the tournament/all-other-formats design dichotomy worse, but you effectively give Large-boosting ships a huge leg up, back to where they were before the kludge. (Which was ... everywhere.)

The right answer is to remove half-MoV and fix the actual problems ... regen, Large boost, and so on. But that's the right answer, so don't hold your breath. (Except maybe for X-Wing 2.0!)

24 minutes ago, Jeff Wilder said:

If you want to see nothing (again) on the board but turreted Large ships, this is for sure the way to achieve that.

Half-MoV was kludged together in response to Large turreted ships with Engine Upgrade. These ships would arc-dodge and (more so) range away from retaliatory shots, so they were immensely difficult to kill. Rather than find a way to nerf Large boost (and there is a way), FFG created the tournament-rule kludge of half-MoV. (So now we have a tournament-only rule that actually forces design decisions on FFG for all Large ships, in all formats. Just think about that for a second.)

As it turned out, Engine Upgrade on turreted Large ships is so powerful, some of them survived the kludge to remain competitive anyway. But if you equalize the Kludge, putting half-MoV on all ships, not only do you make the tournament/all-other-formats design dichotomy worse, but you effectively give Large-boosting ships a huge leg up, back to where they were before the kludge. (Which was ... everywhere.)

The right answer is to remove half-MoV and fix the actual problems ... regen, Large boost, and so on. But that's the right answer, so don't hold your breath. (Except maybe for X-Wing 2.0!)

Instead we just have small base point fortresses instead of large base ones. Miranda/poe/corran/whatever are just as bad as fat han.

I don't disagree. What do all three of those ships have in common that I might just have mentioned above?

1 hour ago, VanderLegion said:

Instead we just have small base point fortresses instead of large base ones. Miranda/poe/corran/whatever are just as bad as fat han.

1 hour ago, Jeff Wilder said:

I don't disagree. What do all three of those ships have in common that I might just have mentioned above?

I think two minor tweaks could make a big difference:

Only apply half-MOV to all ships with greater than 8 health (ie shields+hull).

Errata Miranda's ability to Primary Weapon only.

(I don't see Poe & Corran around all that much in my locale, so they don't feel as much of a concern to me...

... and I've only seen one game where Kylo was proxied, so haven't seen how irritating he might become - but that will no doubt change from today)

26 minutes ago, ABXY said:

I think two minor tweaks could make a big difference:

Only apply half-MOV to all ships with greater than 8 health (ie shields+hull).

Errata Miranda's ability to Primary Weapon only.

Make half-mov apply to all ships, full stop. If you make it only 8 or greater, you'll see people make point fortresses work with 6 or 7 health ships (regen poe can be a pretty good point fortress for instance, and he's only at 6). Or super arc-dogers like kylo has hte potential to be, and soontir was int he past, where soontir was only 3 health but he was nigh-unkillable for a lot of lists.

Primaqry only could help for miranda, or make it primary arc only. You wanna regen? Gotta charge at me, cna't just run away anymore.

If you got lucky 4 damage against a Brobot you had 25 MOV

IF you got 4 lucky damage against x7 or Kylo and end the game you got nada.

That's enough of a comparison.