I don't even really think it's a Crab only issue. Seen here; characters that can contest the Haughty Magistrate once she's Strongholded:

Doesn't that seem a bit silly? A character that can't be blocked by anyone except Clan Champs and a few odd ones here and there. I feel like he hits WAY above his price tag.

51 minutes ago, Joe From Cincinnati said:

Doesn't that seem a bit silly? A character that can't be blocked by anyone except Clan Champs and a few odd ones here and there. I feel like he hits WAY above his price tag.

SOME Clan Champs, you mean. I only see 4 of them in that list. Shoju, Altansarnai, and Kisada cower in the wake of the (buffed) Haughty Magistrate.

The biggest problem here is that, apart from Isawa Mori Seidō, right now there’s no way of raising/lowering glory. All the other stats can be altered in some way, except for Glory (well, and Fate cost).

So lets hope we will receive some cards in the future that allow for glory modification.

BTW, Joe, regarding your list a lot of strongholded Phoenix characters can contest the Haughty Magistrate

20 minutes ago, twinstarbmc said:

SOME Clan Champs, you mean. I only see 4 of them in that list. Shoju, Altansarnai, and Kisada cower in the wake of the (buffed) Haughty Magistrate.

Kisada cowers in the wake of a non-buffed Haughty Magistrate.

The ERRATA will say: except for Kisada who just beats the haughtiness out of him.

14 minutes ago, Tabris2k said:

The biggest problem here is that, apart from Isawa Mori Seidō, right now there’s no way of raising/lowering glory. All the other stats can be altered in some way, except for Glory (well, and Fate cost).

So lets hope we will receive some cards in the future that allow for glory modification.

BTW, Joe, regarding your list a lot of strongholded Phoenix characters can contest the Haughty Magistrate

Hah. How wonderful for the Feenixes :P.

16 minutes ago, Tabris2k said:

The biggest problem here is that, apart from Isawa Mori Seidō, right now there’s no way of raising/lowering glory. All the other stats can be altered in some way, except for Glory (well, and Fate cost).

So lets hope we will receive some cards in the future that allow for glory modification.

BTW, Joe, regarding your list a lot of strongholded Phoenix characters can contest the Haughty Magistrate

Oh no, a card you don't have to beg, plead, and dig for, and that exists for the entire game, is the ONLY CARD that can raise His Haughtiness's glory. I'm sorry you have to use your stronghold in order to neuter ~90% of the game's characters. You want more glory-boosting cards, so that he can shut down the rest of the Empire (Emperor included, I'm sure)?

Not that it makes her any less powerful, but tons of people are already running text-blanking tech in their decks. I don't see her becoming all that out of control in the current environment.

7 minutes ago, twinstarbmc said:

Oh no, a card you don't have to beg, plead, and dig for, and that exists for the entire game, is the ONLY CARD that can raise His Haughtiness's glory. I'm sorry you have to use your stronghold in order to neuter ~90% of the game's characters. You want more glory-boosting cards, so that he can shut down the rest of the Empire (Emperor included, I'm sure)?

Ummm... no? I want more cards for the other clans so they can raise their glory.

Well... now that you mention it, for the Phoenix too

@Joe From Cincinnati For Shame is the silver bullet and is played in every other deck. He is also awful in Scorp match up.

Ya he is less interactive than most of cards. It's also not like he can't be interacted with. In MTG you nearly always need a specific card to counter another specific card which makes you plan your moves more carefully(at least if you play control). I think the existence of magistrates actually makes the game more strategic. Now you can't just fling as many events at opponent as it is possible, you need to think about saving your for shame in case there might be a chance Magistrate hits the field next turn.

Of course you are always trying to tactically save as much rescources as possible but now you have further incentive to plan for the long game(just like you do so against Spirit Caller for example).

And hey if he makes more people play some outside of meta cards like "rout" than I am even happier.

Just now, SolidusPrime said:

Not that it makes her any less powerful, but tons of people are already running text-blanking tech in their decks. I don't see her becoming all that out of control in the current environment.

Except Crab and Lion who have 1 dynasty shugenja. And Crab is the Clan that has very few answers for the single card that can shut down the whole Clan.

3 minutes ago, kraken78 said:

Except Crab and Lion who have 1 dynasty shugenja. And Crab is the Clan that has very few answers for the single card that can shut down the whole Clan.

True. Crab does have the Hiruma Ambushers though I actually use those instead of cloud the mind for a couple of different reasons.

2 minutes ago, SolidusPrime said:

True. Crab does have the Hiruma Ambushers though I actually use those instead of cloud the mind for a couple of different reasons.

They work on triggered abilities only.

1 minute ago, SolidusPrime said:

True. Crab does have the Hiruma Ambushers though I actually use those instead of cloud the mind for a couple of different reasons.

that doesn't work at all...

2 minutes ago, SolidusPrime said:

True. Crab does have the Hiruma Ambushers though I actually use those instead of cloud the mind for a couple of different reasons.

Ambusher doesn't work on Haughty Magistrate though.

7 minutes ago, BordOne said:

@Joe From Cincinnati For Shame is the silver bullet and is played in every other deck. He is also awful in Scorp match up.

Ya he is less interactive than most of cards. It's also not like he can't be interacted with. In MTG you nearly always need a specific card to counter another specific card which makes you plan your moves more carefully(at least if you play control). I think the existence of magistrates actually makes the game more strategic. Now you can't just fling as many events at opponent as it is possible, you need to think about saving your for shame in case there might be a chance Magistrate hits the field next turn.

Of course you are always trying to tactically save as much rescources as possible but now you have further incentive to plan for the long game(just like you do so against Spirit Caller for example).

And hey if he makes more people play some outside of meta cards like "rout" than I am even happier.

Rout doesn't matter if they attack with him first. Then he can just attack the next conflict and have the exact same effect.

As for requiring decks to have specific counters because of 1 character, I consider that an unhealthy design. "I normally wouldn't run this card, but there's this one card in this one clan that is so hideously imbalanced, I need to completely alter my deck to allow me to play this one card that kind of sort of counters him, in a way."

There's such a thing as reading the meta, but the haughty magistrate is not part of that equation.

2 minutes ago, BordOne said:

They work on triggered abilities only.

Good point

1 hour ago, Joe From Cincinnati said:

Rout doesn't matter if they attack with him first. Then he can just attack the next conflict and have the exact same effect.

As for requiring decks to have specific counters because of 1 character, I consider that an unhealthy design. "I normally wouldn't run this card, but there's this one card in this one clan that is so hideously imbalanced, I need to completely alter my deck to allow me to play this one card that kind of sort of counters him, in a way."

There's such a thing as reading the meta, but the haughty magistrate is not part of that equation.

It does though. It means you completly negated one of their conflicts. If they want to run in again than he is open to Court Games(which I am not sure if it is run in crab).

I completly disagree on the second point. Having a meta and figuring out counters to it is what makes for a healthy competitive scene. Also the fact that you can counter him means that he is not broken. You sound a bit not reasonable to me. First you say this card is broken/unhealthy, than people find some cards to play around it(Rout - not perfect but still) and then you say "I don't want to play this card, Magistrate broken".

And your "I normally wouldn't run this card..." argument is not very thought out when we speak about any reactive cards in the game. What about Cloud the Mind? Ready for Battle? Hiruma Ambusher? All of these you run because opponent has some card you want to counter - maybe not one card maybe multiple. Rout has many uses other than countering Magistrate too, it was playable in core set and it is not unplayably bad now.

All of that being said you probably don't need counters for Magistrate. He is 3 out of 40 cards in a rare matchup. Crab won 2 major events btw. 3 cards in a rare faction won't kill it.

I feel like Haughty Magistrate is the new staple for all Phoenix decks moving forward. There's really no reason not to include him. At least not for a while. Rumor is a new stronghold is going to come soon, so it'll only be in decks with the OG stronghold.

1 hour ago, Joe From Cincinnati said:

As for requiring decks to have specific counters because of 1 character, I consider that an unhealthy design. "I normally wouldn't run this card, but there's this one card in this one clan that is so hideously imbalanced, I need to completely alter my deck to allow me to play this one card that kind of sort of counters him, in a way."

I would agree that if a character were so hideously unbalanced, it would constitute unhealthy design. I would not agree that Haughty Magistrate is so hideously unbalanced.

You are playing a Clan which has as one of its defining traits low Glory. Sometimes thats a strength, and sometimes that’s a weakness. Against Haughty Magistrate it’s a big weakness (though not an “I win” button for your opponent). You might have to use some sub-optimal cards to cover this weakness. That’s good design, because no Clan should have all the answers.

6 hours ago, BordOne said:

It does though. It means you completly negated one of their conflicts. If they want to run in again than he is open to Court Games(which I am not sure if it is run in crab).

I completly disagree on the second point. Having a meta and figuring out counters to it is what makes for a healthy competitive scene. Also the fact that you can counter him means that he is not broken. You sound a bit not reasonable to me. First you say this card is broken/unhealthy, than people find some cards to play around it(Rout - not perfect but still) and then you say "I don't want to play this card, Magistrate broken".

And your "I normally wouldn't run this card..." argument is not very thought out when we speak about any reactive cards in the game. What about Cloud the Mind? Ready for Battle? Hiruma Ambusher? All of these you run because opponent has some card you want to counter - maybe not one card maybe multiple. Rout has many uses other than countering Magistrate too, it was playable in core set and it is not unplayably bad now.

All of that being said you probably don't need counters for Magistrate. He is 3 out of 40 cards in a rare matchup. Crab won 2 major events btw. 3 cards in a rare faction won't kill it.

Rout's fine. The 'Normally wouldn't run this card' example was for Shame. In order to run it, I'd be shoe horned into a splash and forced to run bad cards like the otomo courtier to allow me to use it. Same with Cloud the Mind.

I'm glad you like the card. I don't like the design space and I've explained why. A lack of interaction in a game they claimed to build around interaction (hence removing the masturbatory aspect of honor).

That said, I will handle it like I always do. Crabs persevere and Phoenix having a broken card will not stop me from beating them.

But Rout isn't a proper answer and is a bad card. Just saying.

5 hours ago, GooeyChewie said:

I would agree that if a character were so hideously unbalanced, it would constitute unhealthy design. I would not agree that Haughty Magistrate is so hideously unbalanced.

I am going to have to strongly disagree with you here. There are no other cards in the game that shuts down an ENTIRE clan off of holding and single character...NONE.

5 hours ago, GooeyChewie said:

because no Clan should have all the answers.

I'd just like one reasonable answer.

ROUT - not an answer - even with 3 in hand you could stop him for 3 conflicts - 1 1/2 rounds, so 1 fate on Magistrate and then no more answers.

CLOUD THE MIND - We have 1 clan shugenja

5 hours ago, GooeyChewie said:

You might have to use some sub-optimal cards to cover this weakness.

I don't mind trying to cover the weakness of low glory, which we already have to do - i.e. MIRUMOTO'S FURY (one time problem...one character target)

But this isn't a Weakness - it's a full Clan NEGATION from a 3-cost character...a 3-cost character.

Solution...A 3 cost targeted WAY OF THE CRAB (Oh wait that's way too overpowered...even though it only stops one card once and not every character in the whole clan for an extended amount of time)

Can you even imagine the complaining we'd see with a 3-cost targeted WAY OF THE CRAB?

I fully agree with Kraken that this is bad design space. A Haughty Magistrate, honored or not is going to create a situation where a player MUST sink conflict cards in addition to dynasty characters just to compete. This is a massive card advantage even if the Phoenix are just taking wins and rings, and not provinces.

This touches some of the same design space as Lions Pride Brawler. There isn't much you can do to stop LPB from wrecking a game. The only character card counters to both of these effects, without sinking cards from your hand to cancel their character-ability effects are Doji Challenger and Yogo Hiroue who can both force the character to be pulled on defense, and both of these obviously rely on the specific condition that you are first player.

Their effect is massively powerful demanding multiple cards are used to counter a 3 cost dynasty character with its built in ability. The efficiency of these cards are off the charts and practically demands Cloud the Mind be included as a meta-tech. This is tough against Phoenix as there are several characters that begin to demand Cloud the Mind... Phoenix are sleeping giants who are gonna be woke up here quick...

I'm also concerned about the Lion clan magistrate. That one isn't as bad as the Phoenix one, but Crab and Scorpion are both going to be hard pressed to compete against that magistrate as well. The Phoenix and Lion magistrates are the most reliably but indeed ALL of these magistrate cards are ridiculous in how much they cut away interaction and decision points in the game...

and people were worried about BC HA!

PS - cards like this are why running a first to two set with a sideboard is better than 1 off swiss rounds...

Crab defenses:

https://fiveringsdb.com/card/pit-trap

https://fiveringsdb.com/card/jade-tetsubo

https://fiveringsdb.com/card/way-of-the-crab

Things to make the Magistrate EVEN more annoying,

https://fiveringsdb.com/card/sashimono

https://fiveringsdb.com/card/favored-mount

https://fiveringsdb.com/card/ide-messenger

https://fiveringsdb.com/card/favorable-ground

Basically anything that either unbowed or even just sends the magistrate into a second attacking battle so long as a second character is present (with conflict cards) to break a second province.

I'm fairly certain you could create multiple scenarios with many ways to 2 turn fish bowl win so long as the enemy doesn't draw removal (or maybe delay).

If we could get about 2 more decent Shugenja via Dynasty or even 1 crab conflict shugenja - Like a 2-cost non-unique Kuni

I would love to be able to reasonably run CLOUD THE MIND - but not by Running MIYA MYSTICS and limiting us to only UNICORN, SCORPION, or PHOENIX splash for any reasonable consistency.

I will concede the point that this card may not remain as much of a problem as it is now. But the lack of feasible responses is problematic.

I agree with shosuko that the Lion one is equally problematic. Many decks don't play the honor-my-peeps-game very hard meaning their only defense is the fire ring. A lion magistrate deck can pose hard problems just by making the fire ring now critical to the opponent without any more investment. The spirit caller then chooses times to pull it out when the enemy has failed to honored a defender. The lion player could also invest in a few more honor/dishonor tech to push the magistrate if they wanted. They have enough 3 glory peeps they can pull it off. Plus I hear 3 glory peeps are soon to be very important...

NEW SOLUTION -

UNCOUTH MAGISTRATE - Crab Clan

3-cost 3/3/0

All characters with glory 1 or more don't count their skill for conflict resolution.

Discuss.

(If you made him cost 5 I'd still play it over HIDA KISADA)