Hello all,

I would like some opinions on a point of discussion we had in our playgroup. Is it possible to use the Action Card 'Shields Holding' to block the damage from the Yin Devotion Faction Ability or the Creuss Dimensional Splicer?

These abilities allows the player to produce 1 hit and then choose which of opponents ships they want to assign it to. So does this prevent Shields Holding as the text is 'Before you assign hits to your ships during a space combat: Cancel up to 2 hits', since it is the Yin/Creuss player choosing where the hit goes?

Shields Holding timing is very specific, its step 4 of space combat which is a step called "Assign Hits". It only works with hits created during step III make combat rolls, so for example it doesn't work against Anti-Fighter barrage either.

The Yin Devotion ability takes place "after the space combat round". Hits are assigned during space combat (the last step). The card clearly stats "before you assign hits to your ships during space combat: cancel up to 2 hits. So the answer is no, you cannot use shields holding to prevent the hit.

Dimensional Splicer you might be able to make an argument for, but I would say the answer is also no. Shields Holding gives you the very specific timing. Before you assign hits (that is very specifically step 4 of space combat, the assign hits step). You could make the argument that the cards uses the phrase "during a space combat", but if the intention for it was to be anytime during space combat, it would use the keyword "anytime", its omission with the inclusion of the specific timing of "before you assign hits", which is a very specifically named step in space combat gives away its intention of what it does and doesn't apply to.

5 hours ago, BigKahuna said:

Shields Holding timing is very specific, its step 4 of space combat which is a step called "Assign Hits".

Maneuvering Jets has the exact same wording as Shields Holding. The card just refers assigning hits not that specific part of the phase.

5 hours ago, BigKahuna said:

The Yin Devotion ability takes place "after the space combat round". Hits are assigned during space combat (the last step).

Retreat is the final step during space combat.

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Maneuvering Jets has the exact same wording as Shields Holding. The card just refers assigning hits not that specific part of the phase.

Actually its quite specific for both and the wording is not the same at all..

For shields holding the exact wording is "Before you assign hits to your ships during a space combat. The only time you assign hits during a space combat is in step 4.

For Maneuvering Jets the wording is different. Its "Before you assign hits produced by another player's space cannon roll . You make space cannon rolls during the movement phase/step which is before space combat.

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Retreat is the final step during space combat.

I stand corrected, but that has no relevance on Yin Devotion. The ability takes place "after" the space combat round, which regardless of how you read it is not "during" the space combat roll.

1 hour ago, BigKahuna said:

Actually its quite specific for both and the wording is not the same at all..

For shields holding the exact wording is "Before you assign hits to your ships during a space combat. The only time you assign hits during a space combat is in step 4.

For Maneuvering Jets the wording is different. Its "Before you assign hits produced by another player's space cannon roll . You make space cannon rolls during the movement phase/step which is before space combat.

I stand corrected, but that has no relevance on Yin Devotion. The ability takes place "after" the space combat round, which regardless of how you read it is not "during" the space combat roll.

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67.9 Space combat ends when only one player—or neither player— has a ship in the active system.

67.9 in the rules reference states that space combat only ends when one or neither player has ships in the system. Therefore, I believe that "After a space combat round" would still be considered "during Space Combat" since the requirement to end the Space Combat has not yet been met.

I'm curious if in your opinion that Mentak's "Ambush" ability would also not be able to be the target of the Shields Holding card. That ability specifically says "At the start of space combat", which would take place before Step 1 of Space Combat. So, it would be considered outside of a "Space Combat Round", however by the wording it seems that it would be considered part of "Space Combat". This would also imply that there is timing after a space combat round, but before the next space combat round that is also considered "during space combat".

6 minutes ago, take it easy said:

67.9 in the rules reference states that space combat only ends when one or neither player has ships in the system. Therefore, I believe that "After a space combat round" would still be considered "during Space Combat" since the requirement to end the Space Combat has not yet been met.

I'm curious if in your opinion that Mentak's "Ambush" ability would also not be able to be the target of the Shields Holding card. That ability specifically says "At the start of space combat", which would take place before Step 1 of Space Combat. So, it would be considered outside of a "Space Combat Round", however by the wording it seems that it would be considered part of "Space Combat". This would also imply that there is timing after a space combat round, but before the next space combat round that is also considered "during space combat".

hmm yes that is true, I think you could argue a case for Yin Devotion. I would still argue however that Shields Holding is referring to the "assign hits" step (step 4). If they wanted to make it clear that it can be used anytime during the space combat round, the simplest way to do that would be to use the word "Anytime you assign hits in space combat", rather than "before you assign hits". That said, poor wording is actually fairly common on cards so I do agree with you an argument could be made here for both the Ambush ability of the Mentak and the Yin ability.

I would say any form of wording that say "At the start", "at the end" of a space combat is still in the space combat. Its the start or end, but its during the space combat round. Since shield holding doesn't specifically say anytime or "the assign hits step", its definitely a point of contention when it comes to the Yin and Mentak ability.

Its tricky, I think until they put errata out it will have to be for everyone group to decide for themselves.

I would probably favor protecting racial abilities over action cards personally.