18 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:

Looks like fun, but even in the fun-to-challenging meta that is and is to come, you'll probably rather have Agent Kallus on Whisper, then you can add Intelligence Agent to run with Kylo; it helps my friend.

The point for the odd Whisper build is for repeated decloak-move-cloak craziness to be able to stress out targets and not get hit (with two evade tokens if needed).

The Vynder build is cheap yet effective, if only it worked with ASLAM!

1 hour ago, Magnus Grendel said:

My main squad recently has been 5 Scarif Defender Strikers, so fast-round-the-board generics is something I can get behind. I get the 'yahtzee' comment, though - I'm not sure I have confidence in that many unmodified dice...

Confidence has nothing to do with. Insanity as you warm up the red dice in your hands is entirely the point. Look your opponent in the eye and ask'em if they feel lucky. Really, it's the same general principle as 5 Strikers... Lots of dice and heavy maneuvering. 5 Strikers is the superior list. This is higher risk/reward potential since the guns are bigger but the number of them is smaller. The intent is, the main combat rounds the Phantoms take a focus so a few get modified shots. Particularly early on since the advantage is weight of dice.

1 hour ago, Celestial Lizards said:

So should I get 4 Phantoms now?

I have three and borrow one on those times I decide to be crazy. The problem of course is then at least one player knows what I'm about to pull...

"These particular craft have a capability previously unheard of for ships their size, the ability to evade sensors and scanners, rendering them effectively invisible. Obviously, with a fleet of such vessels, Darth Vader could devastate our forces with near impunity." -Ackbar

15 hours ago, PhantomFO said:

I wonder if a minor rules change would be a good thing to help the Phantom, and cloaked ships in general:

"Discard all Target Lock tokens when you are assigned a Cloak token. You cannot be assigned Target Locks while you have a Cloak token."

On the one hand, it would give them protection against things like missiles and torpedoes. On the other hand, it would also be a nerf because it would kill the FCS/ACD combo. However, it feels fitting for a cloaking device mechanic to interfere with targeting. If you can't tell a ship is there, then how are your Long-Range Scanners picking up and maintaining a lock on it?

This was my guess back before we knew what cloaking did. I think it would be a nice buff if it was only 1 sided.

Phantom still suffers because there is still only 1 way to build them competitively : VI + ACD. ACD should be a title so the mod slot can do something else. Would that break it again? Probably not. It would be even more expensive and proabably not much more survivable.

generics + LWF does get the big eyes reaction casually though. That’s still fun.

Shadow Squadron Pilot (27)

Shadow Squadron Pilot (27)

Shadow Squadron Pilot (27)

"Epsilon Leader" (19)

Total: 100

The Darkness Squadron (great fun against other arced squads):

34 Shadow Squadron Pilot PS 5 (27), Agent Kallus (2), Lightweight Frame (2), Fire Control Systems (3) [the scalpel, Kallus their best ship, go after it indirectly]

34 Sigma Squadron Pilot PS 3 (25), Mara Jade (3), Lightweight Frame (2), Sensor Jammer (4) [the cloaked, tip of the spear, jam her right into the fray and appear the easy target]

31 Sigma Squadron Pilot PS 3 (25), Intelligence Agent (1), Lightweight Frame (2), Advanced Sensors (3) [the flanker, use the Agent to assist the scalpel when you can]

11 hours ago, defkhan1 said:

That is quite a huge nerf. A Phantom's offense is pretty mediocre without FCS. Nobody would play them because not only are there so many counters already, but now they don't do enough damage to be worth that investment.

It's a pretty sad day when when a 4-die primary is considered mediocre without FCS. A focused attack is still averaging 3 hit results, and even an unfocused attack still averages two. Plus the Phantom still has other options for mods, like Palpatine and Targeting Synchronizers.

8 hours ago, Infinite_Maelstrom said:

Perhaps instead, it should be, discard all red target locks. the stygium cloaking effect was only one way - your scopes could still work, but no one elses could see you.

I always assumed that Focus tokens represented the scopes. Target Locks are tend to be computer-assisted targeting systems, and are usually easier to detect where they're coming from. To borrow from a real-world example, when a ship or missile has a lock on an enemy aircraft, that craft knows where the lock is coming from because it's maintaining the lock through a radar tracking system.

With all the expertise in the world, I find rebel captive to be the mandatory crew choice.

After that do whatever and it'll be ok.

14 minutes ago, PhantomFO said:

It's a pretty sad day when when a 4-die primary is considered mediocre without FCS. A focused attack is still averaging 3 hit results, and even an unfocused attack still averages two. Plus the Phantom still has other options for mods, like Palpatine and Targeting Synchronizers.

Three hits is pretty mediocre these days. For a ship that costs 40ish points it sure as **** better put out more damage than that. Part of the reason FCS works so well on the Phantom is that it leaves its other actions for defense. The ship is already so fragile with the mountains of anti-ace tech, it can't afford to spend all of its tokens and Palp to mod offense. FCS is absolutely necessary for the ship to be playable.

On 12/5/2017 at 5:49 PM, defkhan1 said:

Three hits is pretty mediocre these days

It is and isn't. For a 40 point super-duper-ace, I agree. For a 25 point light fighter, not so much.

It's much the same as the aforementioned TIE strikers; 3 attack dice with focus is sub-par compared to most squads you see, where focus/target lock is almost expected as normal and 4-dice attacks, gunner 'shoot again' abilities and so on are not uncommon to the point that the ace crowd get disappointed if any red dice come up 'tilt'.

The thing is, whilst people are used to all that rubbish, that's because they're also used to a 2-3 ship list, getting a maximum of 3 attacks in a turn (one of which is often a conditional 'return fire' shot or half of a twin laser turret burst).

an average of 3 hits is 'acceptable'. What makes it much more than acceptable is if you've got three mates doing the same thing; the TIE strikers don't have predator, or juke, or what have you - they instead have the special rule "you've spent all your green tokens/palpatine/C-3PO once-per-turn tricks and I still have another focused 3-dice attack left".

Phantom thoughts:

- ordnance and red dice in general in the meta can overwhelm 4AGI with single token. Best to avoid being in arc to begin with.
- With reposition available, lower PS ships are more able to react to phantom decloak at beginning of activation. For example, StarViper MkII. Leads to blocks or dodging arcs.
- Limited decloak positions make Phantoms ‘predictable’ against experienced players.
- Phantoms generally limited to one action. Could PTL but lose VI and gain stress, two things Phantoms don’t want.
- Phantoms rely on getting arc to trigger ACD. No ACD activation results in reduced AGI and more predictable movement next turn.
- Range control is critical....avoid stress from Assaji or tactician.
- Response...need to avoid being in arc and ability to reposition at PS....

Minority Report (100)

•"Whisper" (42) - TIE Phantom
Veteran Instincts (1), Fire Control System (2), Navigator (3), Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

•"Echo" (40) - TIE Phantom
Veteran Instincts (1), Fire Control System (2), Navigator (3), Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

Scimitar Squadron Pilot (18) - TIE Bomber
TIE Shuttle (0), Intelligence Agent (1), Intelligence Agent (1)

This list provides three means of reacting to opponent movements. First is the intell agents on the TIE Shuttle (Gorgon Stare) allows the Phantoms to select the most beneficial decloak move (if at all). The second layer of reaction is the Navigator crew, which based on movement of lower PS ships and information from intell agent allows the speed (not bearing) of the Phantom’s move to be changed. Finally, the Phantoms can barrel roll, if all else fails.

This list has reduced action economy (no Kallus or RecSpec) and no control (Rebel Captive or tactician) but should need less actions for defence and is less reliant on control to avoid arcs.

Well that is the theory....