3 hours ago, Ginkapo said:I'm looking at:
Lambda
Lambda
Lambda
Valen
Saber
Whisper/MaulerNot as cheap as you want, but I thought I'd explain why.
HUGE objective power
Huge amount of hull, with the caveat a lot of it is heavy
Saber and Mauler have the ability to hurt escorted intel which is the bain of low squad number defence forces.
NNEEERRRRRDDDDSSSSSSSS
Darn close loss on today's game. Didn't learn all too much about the list though sadly. Biggest thing I took away was that I need to slow down. Made several major errors relating to initiative, objective selection, and deployment that should have been obvious if I sat down and thought about them for a minute. Bummer.
Oh well, better to make these mistakes now than at a tournament! Fun game either way!
Edited by duck_birdJust remember you have about 2 hours to do your game (taking into consideration that some of your time will be taken up by setup and deployment).
Fair point. Don't take tooooo much time, but at least take 30 seconds to identify the strengths/weaknesses of each fleet!
OK I have a few more ideas. Help shoot down some of them if you can!
1) No squad lists are risky. Super risky. And it being a bit of a drive out there, it can get frustrating when it continues not working. I would avoid going that route.
2) You don't want opening salvo, they'll get halfpoints on your ISD for merely having a damage on it at the end, even if the extra range makes your raiders more threatening.
3) Expect bids of 25 pts and more from fleets that *really* want first. Objective wise, I think Most Wanted, Contested Outpost, and Salvage Run or Solar Corona are good choices.
3 minutes ago, Formynder4 said:Contested Outpost
He has Demolisher: Hyperspace Assault all day errday.
Allllright! Time for me to really settle on a list. I've got a few versions of the list that I'd love to get last minute feedback on before I settle on one. Tear 'em apart.
The Classic: (392/400) (This is what I ran at the tournament last weekend)
Dirty Flotilla Spammer: (392/400) (Dropping some upgrades and the squads for 2 flotillas)
Ozzy and the Raiders: (388/400) (Who needs an ISD? Give me more Raiders!)
Bigplays.com: (390/400) (Dropping a ton of upgrades for more stuff and squads. I'd have to play this very aggressively, which I love doing anyway)
Middle Ground: (387/400): (Dropping some upgrades to get at least 2 TIEs and 1 Gozanti, and a larger bid)
I think I'm still leaning towards my classic list, but I'm worried about facing a list that outbids me and out activates me. Would counter me pretty hard.
Any input is much appreciated as always, thanks!
What do you feel most comfortable with, or what excites you the most looking at it?
Is a large bid important? Is the ISD your favorite ship? These things are important; if you are enthusiastic about the list, you'll probably do better with it than if you're strictly min/maxing.
That being said, I'd probably be very cautious about a lot of Raiders in a list, they can pop very quickly, especially if they're close together and your opponent is running gunnery teams or advanced gunnery.
Edited by emsgoofI think if you go squad less you'll rather regret it.
I like your bigplays list best, but that's probably just because it's closer to my play style. I highly recommend adjusting it a bit to squeeze in ECM on the ISD though.
Yooo!! Those Raiders with External Racks can slam. I one shot a ship in each of the 3 matches I played in a tournament last weekend. The only problem is trying to make up points when you lose a ship. Each one is heavily invested and you almost have to kill 2-3 ships to make up for 1 lost ship. Played a 2x Quasar and 2x Artiquins with hella squads. Both of my Raiders were able to flak half of the squads in 2 turns before losing 1. Demo plowed through them and cleaned up a couple more but I lost 1 Raider and Demo and even with a light cruiser kill and 3/4 of his squads missing, he still won by points. I dont think running a no squad list is as risky as some people are saying but having something that can roll 2 or 3 dice and drop some shields or burn some tokens wouldn't hurt. I really enjoyed the list though. Very fun to fly and you can get creative.
I like the middle ground one the best, though I would swap spinals for xi7 and ACM to apt- with the savings get two more ties or put ET on Demo and the rest to a bid
3 hours ago, Sluice_Goose said:Yooo!! Those Raiders with External Racks can slam. I one shot a ship in each of the 3 matches I played in a tournament last weekend. The only problem is trying to make up points when you lose a ship. Each one is heavily invested and you almost have to kill 2-3 ships to make up for 1 lost ship. Played a 2x Quasar and 2x Artiquins with hella squads. Both of my Raiders were able to flak half of the squads in 2 turns before losing 1. Demo plowed through them and cleaned up a couple more but I lost 1 Raider and Demo and even with a light cruiser kill and 3/4 of his squads missing, he still won by points. I dont think running a no squad list is as risky as some people are saying but having something that can roll 2 or 3 dice and drop some shields or burn some tokens wouldn't hurt. I really enjoyed the list though. Very fun to fly and you can get creative.
I love your enthusiasm.
I made my wife huff and roll over in bed because I was laughing so hard reading this.
4 hours ago, Ardaedhel said:I love your enthusiasm.
I made my wife huff and roll over in bed because I was laughing so hard reading this.
Dude I love this game! I appreciate you! Tell your wife she should play too.
12 hours ago, emsgoof said:What do you feel most comfortable with, or what excites you the most looking at it?
Is a large bid important? Is the ISD your favorite ship? These things are important; if you are enthusiastic about the list, you'll probably do better with it than if you're strictly min/maxing.
That being said, I'd probably be very cautious about a lot of Raiders in a list, they can pop very quickly, especially if they're close together and your opponent is running gunnery teams or advanced gunnery.
Ahhhh, I feel very comfy with the classic list, but certain matchups just dunk me so hard. I think I need at least one flotilla. I'll miss my boy Jonus, but I need the activation.
Raiders are probably my favorite ship. Demo is just... really really good. My favorite part about the list is how the close range burst of the Glad/Raiders contrasts with the long range threat zone of the ISD2.
12 hours ago, Formynder4 said:I think if you go squad less you'll rather regret it.
I like your bigplays list best, but that's probably just because it's closer to my play style. I highly recommend adjusting it a bit to squeeze in ECM on the ISD though.
I am still torn on this. I have not gone totally squadless yet. I've played around with squad balls ranging from just 2 TIEs, to Ciena/Valen, to Ciena/Jonus, and up to 6 TIEs. Performance really depends on the enemy fleet.
Against squad-light or squadless fleets, Jonus is incredible. Ciena ties up Shara or an A wing or something.
Against heavy squad lists, all my squad components (ranging from tiny to 6 TIEs) get obliterated so quick they hardly slowed the enemy down. In a game last night Ciena went down in 2 shots. I am not yet convinced that the light squad presence is providing even a trivial speedbump. I think I might prefer the extra activation and rely on flak against bomber fleets.
I agree, I need to fit ECMs in, as the ISD is really the only tanky ship in the fleet.
10 hours ago, Sluice_Goose said:Yooo!! Those Raiders with External Racks can slam. I one shot a ship in each of the 3 matches I played in a tournament last weekend. The only problem is trying to make up points when you lose a ship. Each one is heavily invested and you almost have to kill 2-3 ships to make up for 1 lost ship. Played a 2x Quasar and 2x Artiquins with hella squads. Both of my Raiders were able to flak half of the squads in 2 turns before losing 1. Demo plowed through them and cleaned up a couple more but I lost 1 Raider and Demo and even with a light cruiser kill and 3/4 of his squads missing, he still won by points. I dont think running a no squad list is as risky as some people are saying but having something that can roll 2 or 3 dice and drop some shields or burn some tokens wouldn't hurt. I really enjoyed the list though. Very fun to fly and you can get creative.
Heck yeah, this guy gets it.
10 hours ago, MandalorianMoose said:I like the middle ground one the best, though I would swap spinals for xi7 and ACM to apt- with the savings get two more ties or put ET on Demo and the rest to a bid
Hmmm, yeah I can try that. Really missing my Kallus glad2 though. The flak from that ship is just lovely. Ty!
Edited by duck_birdI like MandalorianMoose's suggestions on the Middle Ground List with a slight adjustment. ACM->APT. Spinals->XI7. Then you may want to consider the Jumpmaster/Mauler Mithel combination instead of a pair of TIE Fighters. It's more expensive, which sucks away some of your bid (387->393), but there are a couple advantages: 1) Intel is important when you're trying to tie down enemy squadrons for an extra turn. If you survive an alpha (a big "if" for dedicated lists), it can screw up timing on a bombing list. 2) The Jumpmaster/Mauler combo is likely to get you a couple of the all-important one-damage-penny-packets that are annoying to scatter (if they even can!) and impossible to brace. Aces hate those, especially when you combine them with flak.
Whatever you decide, I think you want the extra activation in a list that really features Demolisher and Raiders. Both types of ships would rather move late in the turn.
Best of luck!
3 hours ago, RobertK said:I like MandalorianMoose's suggestions on the Middle Ground List with a slight adjustment. ACM->APT. Spinals->XI7. Then you may want to consider the Jumpmaster/Mauler Mithel combination instead of a pair of TIE Fighters. It's more expensive, which sucks away some of your bid (387->393), but there are a couple advantages: 1) Intel is important when you're trying to tie down enemy squadrons for an extra turn. If you survive an alpha (a big "if" for dedicated lists), it can screw up timing on a bombing list. 2) The Jumpmaster/Mauler combo is likely to get you a couple of the all-important one-damage-penny-packets that are annoying to scatter (if they even can!) and impossible to brace. Aces hate those, especially when you combine them with flak.
Whatever you decide, I think you want the extra activation in a list that really features Demolisher and Raiders. Both types of ships would rather move late in the turn.
Best of luck!
Thanks!
What would you consider a minimum bid for a list like mine?
1 hour ago, duck_bird said:Thanks!
What would you consider a minimum bid for a list like mine?
I'm not sure, because I don't think of things quite that way. My bids are a compromise between what I regard as essential components of the list and whether I want to go first against certain list archetypes. I think you want to strip away as many components that are inessential as you can, and what is left is your bid. Then have an effective plan for how to run your list whether you are going first or second.
My rule of thumb (very meta dependent) is that a 5 point bid wins about 60% of the time. Going to 10 points gets you the bid about 90% of the time. But it's all about the probabilities. You can't guarantee you'll go first every time, so you have to have a back-up plan for playing second no matter what you bid.
My Sloane list likes going first, for sure. But my objectives and my fleet composition make it quite viable as a 2nd player list. It just flies differently.
TL;DR: 10 points would probably be pretty good, but against dedicated "first player" lists with big bids, have a back-up plan.
Alright, I think I'm settled on a build!
Much thanks to everyone who's beaten up on me on Vassal this last week!
2 hours ago, duck_bird said:Alright, I think I'm settled on a build!
Much thanks to everyone who's beaten up on me on Vassal this last week!
Well don’t keep us in suspense, what did you decide on?!
3 hours ago, duck_bird said:Alright, I think I'm settled on a build!
Much thanks to everyone who's beaten up on me on Vassal this last week!
You're welcome! 
Which regionals are you going to?
12 hours ago, duck_bird said:Alright, I think I'm settled on a build!
Much thanks to everyone who's beaten up on me on Vassal this last week!
Yeah?!
What changes did you end up going with? Interested to see the final fleet and how things work out!
10 hours ago, MandalorianMoose said:Well don’t keep us in suspense, what did you decide on?!
Haha, it's not perfect, but it keeps some of my favorite bits without sacrificing too much. It might crash and burn like so many of my practice games!
Ozzy Tourney (392)
ISD2: Ozzel, Kallus, Gunnery Team, Quad Lasers, ECMs, Leading Shots, QBTs, Relentless
Glad1: OE, APTs, Demo
Raider1: OE, Flechettes
Raider1: OE, Externals
Gozanti: Comms Net
2x TIE fighters
Most Wanted, Hyperspace Assault, Dangerous Territory.
3 hours ago, Sluice_Goose said:Which regionals are you going to?
West Virginia
10 minutes ago, duck_bird said:Haha, it's not perfect, but it keeps some of my favorite bits without sacrificing too much. It might crash and burn like so many of my practice games!
Ozzy Tourney (392)
ISD2: Ozzel, Kallus, Gunnery Team, Quad Lasers, ECMs, Leading Shots, QBTs, Relentless
Glad1: OE, APTs, Demo
Raider1: OE, Flechettes
Raider1: OE, Externals
Gozanti: Comms Net
2x TIE fighters
Most Wanted, Hyperspace Assault, Dangerous Territory.
West Virginia
Good luck and may your flechette raider shut down many squad balls
1 hour ago, duck_bird said:Haha, it's not perfect, but it keeps some of my favorite bits without sacrificing too much. It might crash and burn like so many of my practice games!
Ozzy Tourney (392)
ISD2: Ozzel, Kallus, Gunnery Team, Quad Lasers, ECMs, Leading Shots, QBTs, Relentless
Glad1: OE, APTs, Demo
Raider1: OE, Flechettes
Raider1: OE, Externals
Gozanti: Comms Net
2x TIE fighters
Most Wanted, Hyperspace Assault, Dangerous Territory.
West Virginia
What I like about it is that I killed your ENTIRE list minus the ISD, but because that ISD is half the points in the fleet the final score ended up being way closer than the amount of destruction would lead you to believe. You essentially have a list that is sneakily good at mitigating losses. Either they are going to do what I did and chase all the smalls and kill them all leaving your ISD free to kill stuff, or they are going to go for the ISD and the small bases will have free reign. If they split damage, there is a really good chance they don't get any really meaningful points, maybe 100 from the raiders. So you need to pick a target that is going to give you the win, try to lure 1-2 turns of fire on the ISD by having it stick it's nose in first and soften it up, then follow up with the raiders and demo to kill it and bug the ISD out of the engagement so they can't close on it.
If you can reliably do that, and keep your ties SAFE until they are needed to protect something from a round of bombing, this fleet is capable of some good wins. I would sit on a table by yourself for a bit and play with deployments. You want to find a way you can deploy where the ISD can reach anywhere on the table and the demo and raiders can quickly reorient so they can trail and protect the flanks of the ISD. locking in all nav commands for the whole fleet and having the ISD spd 2 and use the dial and the Raiders and demo spd 1 and bank a nav first round might help get the positions right. Also not starting with all your ships nose pointing straight toward your opponent will also help.
Anyway, just some thoughts! Good luck in WV, competitive area!