Hmmmm, alrighty how about this!

Ozzel Mk4 edited: (392)

ISD2: Ozzel, Damage Control Officer, Gunnery Team, ECMs, Leading Shots, QBTs, Relentless

Glad1: SFO, Ordnance Experts, ACMs, Demolisher

Raider1: Ordnance Experts, External Racks

Raider1: Ordnance Experts, External Racks

Gozanti: Comms Net

2x TIE Fighters

Most Wanted, Hyperspace Assault, Solar Corona

I like having at least a couple fighters, even if they'll die instantly. I'm bummed not having the Kallus Demolisher shenanigans, but hopefully I won't need it. Still a bit torn on turbolaser upgrades for the ISD, but if I can drop to speed 1 and get that bonus die at long range it should help deal damage from afar.

8 minutes ago, duck_bird said:

Hmmmm, alrighty how about this!

Ozzel Mk4 edited:

ISD2: Ozzel, Damage Control Officer, Gunnery Team, ECMs, Leading Shots, QBTs, Relentless

Glad1: SFO, Ordnance Experts, ACMs, Demolisher

Raider1: Ordnance Experts, External Racks

Raider1: Ordnance Experts, External Racks

Gozanti: Comms Net

2x TIE Fighters

Most Wanted, Hyperspace Assault, Solar Corona

I like having at least a couple fighters, even if they'll die instantly. I'm bummed not having the Kallus Demolisher shenanigans, but hopefully I won't need it. Still a bit torn on turbolaser upgrades for the ISD, but if I can drop to speed 1 and get that bonus die at long range it should help deal damage from afar.

This looks pretty **** solid to me- what is your point total at?

How have you been finding Demo with no engine techs? I always try to get it on there to keep it more slippery- that extra one move with a double click can be very helpful in escaping arcs you’d rather not be in

Whoops, right. Added points total. It's at 392 right now which I'm pretty comfy with.

I've never tried Demolisher with engine techs actually. I'm sure it's good but I've so far found I'm never really lacking for movement or maneuverability. I will need to give it a try some time for sure.

Are you still getting out-maneuvered?

On 12/24/2017 at 10:48 PM, Sluice_Goose said:

Are you still getting out-maneuvered?

Not as much. I think I'm getting the hang of the general flow of the game as I get more experience. Far fewer "oh man I didn't think my ships would be here" moments.

There's a little tournament on Saturday I'm gonna take this to and see how it fares. Will hopefully expose any glaring weaknesses or issues I need to address!

Awesome games today! I changed the list up a little bit and took 2nd out of 14 people. So I'm still making mistakes but overall I'm delighted with how well I've done.

I took the ISD2 with Ozzel, Damage control officer, gunnery team, ECM, leading shots, QBTs, and Relentless. Then glad2 with ACMs, Kallus, ordnance and demo. Two raider1s with OE and ERs, and finally Cienna and Jonus. Gave me an 8 point bid which proved enough every match. I took Close Range Intel Scan for some reason, so I'm probably lucky no one out-bid me or that would have probably been a mistake. Then Station Assault and Corona. (Boring but idk what else to run)

Game1 was against a Sloane ISD and double-vic + gozanti list with a handful of squadrons. I picked his fleet ambush and put the raiders up ahead and the ISD and glad at full speed. I suicidally threw my raiders and demolisher into his ships. They all died but I dealt a massive amount of damage, and the end of the game was my ISD cleaning up the shattered remnants of his boats. I *barely* got the full 400 by dealing the very last hull point to his very last ship by forcing him to ram me. I had nothing left but the ISD. Everything else died.

Game2 was against a Vader double ISD list. I REALLY underestimated Vader and made some deployment mistakes, and hot **** my opponent punished me for it. Both my raiders got blown apart at long range by Vader rerolls. Demolisher did hilarious amounts of damage. I managed a triple-tap with ACMs and Jonus for straight up comical amounts of damage on one ISD. Then my ISD and Avenger faced off and I gambled and lost, losing my flagship by 1hp and not getting a shot off in the last round. My gladiator continued to put in work, blasting Avenger and wiping squads off the board, but I couldn't kill it. I lost the game by about 120 points or so.

Game 3 was another Sloane list with 2 vics and 2 gozantis, and then a bunch of aces. This game went pretty much according to plan. My ISD rolled forward face-tanking everything while my raiders flanked and demolisher was on sole squadron hunting duty. ISD pretty much annihilated everything in front of it and shrugged off the return volleys. Tabled him on turn 5.

I took 2nd but didn't get to play against the guy who got first and his scary looking Madine list. I am not sure how I would have fared against that but it would have been a lot of fun to try. Anyway it was a really fun day at a lovely store and everyone I spoke to and played with were great folks.

I also won a super sweet TIE Interceptor card (objectively the coolest TIE squadrons! fite me!) so now I need to come up with a list that uses a bunch of interceptors. Also it was 10 Imperial fleets and 4 Rebel fleets so I probably need to look into switching sides if I wanna be a cool kid.

Things I learned:

-Jonus is either incredibly powerful or completely neutered by an enemy alpha. He did SOOOOO much work some times, and absolutely nothing at other times. At no point was he "meh"

-Cienna got wrecked super quick every game. I thought she'd be more durable but she got shredded by TIEs locking down her scatter and blasting her with damage. I guess she stopped a couple of shots from hitting demolisher but I was really underwhelmed by her. Jonus tanked way more damage than she did. Maybe I just need to throw more bomber aces at people lmao.

-Ozzel continues to be the man. I am going to dread playing any other admiral. He gives me so much flexibility.

-ISD battle control was really good crucial every game.

-ECMs are straight up necessary. I toyed around with the idea of running RBDs instead in some of my lists and I can't imagine them being anywhere near as useful.

-I continue to get out-deployed. I might drop squads all together for a gozanti. But then I might get eaten by another bomber fleet.

-Didn't get to blow up any dirty rebels today T_T

Ciena (or Shara, for that matter) can be absolutely slaughtered without getting to counter with FC launched fighters, but otherwise can wreck things, especially generics.

ECM vs RBD is really a meta call. But ECM can save 4 damage if you brace a large attack even once.

For Interceptors, I like running 3-4 of them with Howlrunner and Dengar run off a flight controllers carrier of some sort (ISD1 normally). Puts out obscene damage.

Yah I think I'll have to try out a howl/dengo/int ball sometime, but that kinda forces me to run Sloane, no?

I love interceptors but my problem with them historically has been that they just get blown up in one hit. I guess dengo/howl boosted counter makes them at least shoot on the way out.

Probably won't fit into my Ozzel list but I'm definitely going to run that ball in the future

I never ran them with Sloane. The Interceptors are fragile, but 6 blues for attack and 4 blues for counter means they kill most enemies before they get hit in return.

Oh no doubt they'd bop squadrons. My fear would be running into a no-squad list and then all your interceptors are very expensive point-pinatas. Sloane would help them plink on ships (but then flak would still mulch them pretty quick)

No squad lists are extremely rare.

If you don’t want commit to going Sloane for counter, Dengar + Soontir + Mauler + Howlrunner is a fun combo. It’s flak resistant thanks to scatters, the squadrons help each other out in 4 or 5 different ways, and it totals a mere 69 points.

Ooo.... Ok... Ok! I have a crazy idea: Tell me if this is an awful plan!

So I've been struggling with squadron coverage. Still focusing on an Ozzel list balancing the ranged strength of an ISD2 with the close burst of raider1s. I've run 6 TIEs, Cienna/Valen, Cienna/Jonus, and as few as 2 TIE fighters. None of them (even Cienna Valen) have survived long enough to really feel worth it. I've found most of my squad killing has been blasting them off the board with Kallus on Demo2. And/or raiders with ordnance experts.

My concern has been how many squadrons to run. If I don't take any TIEs, I run the risk of getting outdeployed or mulched by bombers. If I run more TIEs and I run into a squadronless fleet, they feel inadequate. Soooo...

TIEs are cheap, but only 3 hull points. They suck against ships. You know what brings more HP for almost as few points? Bombers!

So what if I ran a squad component of 2x bombers, Gamma squad, and Valen. That's 15 hull of bombers you've got to shoot (thanks to Valen) and then the baron himself who can scatter. Cheap plentiful hull points that can't die instantly when their scatters are locked away. 3 black dice of bombers who aren't worthless if the enemy runs no squadrons. They fly around the most vulnerable areas, being simply ablative armor for my real ships. Bonus points if I can run Ruthless Strategists in my fleet without gimping myself?

If enemy bombers spend even one turn shooting cheap 9 point TIE bombers instead of my ships, that's all the time I need to flak them apart.

Sound viable?

9 hours ago, Formynder4 said:

No squad lists are extremely rare.

I dunno, I saw more than a couple at the tournament on Saturday. (Though there was also a fellow who ran 16 TIE fighters!)

39 minutes ago, duck_bird said:

Ooo.... Ok... Ok! I have a crazy idea: Tell me if this is an awful plan!

So I've been struggling with squadron coverage. Still focusing on an Ozzel list balancing the ranged strength of an ISD2 with the close burst of raider1s. I've run 6 TIEs, Cienna/Valen, Cienna/Jonus, and as few as 2 TIE fighters. None of them (even Cienna Valen) have survived long enough to really feel worth it. I've found most of my squad killing has been blasting them off the board with Kallus on Demo2. And/or raiders with ordnance experts.

My concern has been how many squadrons to run. If I don't take any TIEs, I run the risk of getting outdeployed or mulched by bombers. If I run more TIEs and I run into a squadronless fleet, they feel inadequate. Soooo...

TIEs are cheap, but only 3 hull points. They suck against ships. You know what brings more HP for almost as few points? Bombers!

So what if I ran a squad component of 2x bombers, Gamma squad, and Valen. That's 15 hull of bombers you've got to shoot (thanks to Valen) and then the baron himself who can scatter. Cheap plentiful hull points that can't die instantly when their scatters are locked away. 3 black dice of bombers who aren't worthless if the enemy runs no squadrons. They fly around the most vulnerable areas, being simply ablative armor for my real ships. Bonus points if I can run Ruthless Strategists in my fleet without gimping myself?

If enemy bombers spend even one turn shooting cheap 9 point TIE bombers instead of my ships, that's all the time I need to flak them apart.

Sound viable?

It’s viable, the only issue is that if they have Intel (as any bomber wing should), they only need to make Valen/Gamma heavy and then they are free to ignore your screen. It’s one of the reasons I love 6 ties- few lists bring multiple sources of Intel and you can pin most of the ball and keep most of your fighters from being made heavy

Yes, the store matchup the other day had some no squadron lists, but it’s pretty rare for the area, and I think it’ll be the exception rather than the norm at regionals. To add on to that, Intel is pretty common for bomber lists, so you need to consider that as well.

6 hours ago, duck_bird said:

So what if I ran a squad component of 2x bombers, Gamma squad, and Valen. That's 15 hull of bombers you've got to shoot (thanks to Valen) and then the baron himself who can scatter. Cheap plentiful hull points that can't die instantly when their scatters are locked away. 3 black dice of bombers who aren't worthless if the enemy runs no squadrons. They fly around the most vulnerable areas, being simply ablative armor for my real ships. Bonus points if I can run Ruthless Strategists in my fleet without gimping myself?

If enemy bombers spend even one turn shooting cheap 9 point TIE bombers instead of my ships, that's all the time I need to flak them apart.

Sound viable?

It is, however if you're relying on flak, i would prefer to have ciena/valen as a cover, so all those counter dice would add up and spread the damage.

A different question - how much use do you get out of Ozzel in your list? I would be tempted to run it with Motti to increase Raiders survivability.

On 24.12.2017 at 11:55 PM, duck_bird said:

Hmmmm, alrighty how about this!

Ozzel Mk4 edited: (392)

ISD2: Ozzel, Damage Control Officer, Gunnery Team, ECMs, Leading Shots, QBTs, Relentless

Glad1: SFO, Ordnance Experts, ACMs, Demolisher

Raider1: Ordnance Experts, External Racks

Raider1: Ordnance Experts, External Racks

Gozanti: Comms Net

2x TIE Fighters

Most Wanted, Hyperspace Assault, Solar Corona

I like having at least a couple fighters, even if they'll die instantly. I'm bummed not having the Kallus Demolisher shenanigans, but hopefully I won't need it. Still a bit torn on turbolaser upgrades for the ISD, but if I can drop to speed 1 and get that bonus die at long range it should help deal damage from afar.

ISD:

Relentless is a crutch. No really, it is. Especially in a list where the ISD isn't doing carrier duty.

Why the QBT over XI7? Do you find you're going slow so often that it outweighs being capable of effectively dealing with say MC30s?

How often do you actually get good use from DCO?

I ask, bc you have no XI7, no H9, and no IO, so you lack any means to deal with defense tokens.

Demo:

No ET? Sure, you can't attack after ET mvoe now, but I find it crucial for speed management and positioning nontheless.

ACM vs APT. Each has it's own merits. Depends on who your main prey is.

Again you have a heavy hitter with no defense token mitigation.

So no IO and no ET makes this Demo far less than it could be.

Raiders:

Raiders like 1st player more than most - and activation advantage. You've got a decent bid, but only 5 activations.

Raiders, if used for anti-squad, requires investment in own squads to protect/enable shots. You don't have this.

I suspect your raiders are often under-used?

This is essentially the same list, same bid, same admiral, but dropping 1 raider to a Goz to make room for the improvements I suggested.

You now have 2 main combatants that fight at max effect, and 1 supporting Raider (this isn't a MSU list, so you don't need more than 1). Remember that Armada is often all about positioning and getting off a FEW GOOD SHOTS, rather having the max no of combat ships (with some exceptions oc).

You have 1 more drop, 7 total, which isn't grand, but not horrible. Still at 5 activations, but can't see how you'd get more wo changing the list significantly.

------
Something Ducky
Author: Green Knight

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 392/400

Commander: Admiral Ozzel

Assault Objective: Most Wanted
Defense Objective: Hyperspace Assault
Navigation Objective: Solar Corona

[ flagship ] Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120 points)
- Admiral Ozzel ( 20 points)
- Intel Officer ( 7 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)
- X17 Turbolasers ( 6 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 171 total ship cost

Gladiator I-Class Star Destroyer (56 points)
- Demolisher ( 10 points)
- Intel Officer ( 7 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
- Engine Techs ( 8 points)
- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)
= 90 total ship cost

Raider-I Class Corvette (44 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
- External Racks ( 3 points)
= 51 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 point)
- Comms Net ( 2 points)
= 25 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
= 23 total ship cost

4 TIE Fighter Squadrons ( 32 points)

Card view link

Fleet created with Armada Warlords

One possible tweak: drop 4 TIES to Ciena + Valen + Relentless (if you really like it). 1 less drop and 1 less bid, but perhaps more to your liking.

I'm looking at:

Lambda
Lambda
Lambda
Valen
Saber
Whisper/Mauler

Not as cheap as you want, but I thought I'd explain why.

HUGE objective power

Huge amount of hull, with the caveat a lot of it is heavy

Saber and Mauler have the ability to hurt escorted intel which is the bain of low squad number defence forces.

4 hours ago, PT106 said:

It is, however if you're relying on flak, i would prefer to have ciena/valen as a cover, so all those counter dice would add up and spread the damage.

A different question - how much use do you get out of Ozzel in your list? I would be tempted to run it with Motti to increase Raiders survivability.

Tons of use out of Ozzel. I can't imagine another admiral right now actually. The whole fleet is very unpredictable. ISD jumping back and forth from 1 to 3, raiders from 2-4, demo from 1-3. If I have first activation especially it gives me a lot of surprise potential. I love Ozzy.

2 hours ago, Green Knight said:

ISD:

Relentless is a crutch. No really, it is. Especially in a list where the ISD isn't doing carrier duty.

Why the QBT over XI7? Do you find you're going slow so often that it outweighs being capable of effectively dealing with say MC30s?

How often do you actually get good use from DCO?

I ask, bc you have no XI7, no H9, and no IO, so you lack any means to deal with defense tokens.

Demo:

No ET? Sure, you can't attack after ET mvoe now, but I find it crucial for speed management and positioning nontheless.

ACM vs APT. Each has it's own merits. Depends on who your main prey is.

Again you have a heavy hitter with no defense token mitigation.

So no IO and no ET makes this Demo far less than it could be.

Raiders:

Raiders like 1st player more than most - and activation advantage. You've got a decent bid, but only 5 activations.

Raiders, if used for anti-squad, requires investment in own squads to protect/enable shots. You don't have this.

I suspect your raiders are often under-used?

Relentless is a crutch, I agree 100%. I've been playing around 3 months now and I still find myself messing up on command3 ships. I can drop it once I've gotten more practice in. (That said, Relentless/SFO once saved me by letting me insta-repair a bad crit)

I have run a bunch of different turbo upgrades so far. I gave QBTs a shot to see if it would help me slap flotillas from far away. It actually proved quite useful. I think I was hoping I could get away without XI7s by blasting all their shields off with ACMs.

I haven't gotten any use out of DCO... YET! So after an interesting game vs APT spam I thought "oh man it would be hilarious to take DCO!" At the tourney on Saturday there were a couple APT spam fleets, but I didn't get to face any of 'em. So it was 100% wasted. It's probably a bad call, you're right. But if you do go up against a mc30 or demo and get to negate massive amounts of their burst... it could be so good!

Yes, I also opted against XI7s because I was running Jonus for a while. I might need to switch back. I have game this afternoon and I might try that out and see how it feels.

No ETs on demo. It is probably a good move but I find myself running low on points and Ozzel lets me jump from 1-3 if I need to rush up on someone.

Yeah, I like ACMs simply because it's fun to bop their shields down. It's actually done a lot of work for me and I really enjoy it. If you triple tap someone with ACM-demo and they no longer have any side shields, then you only need to get 1 accuracy to hit the brace!

So far my raiders have been doing incredible work (with exceptions, game 2 on Saturday they both got bopped from long range) I'm hesitant to drop to 1 just because I really love them as ships. They are a hoot to fly.

Huh, interesting take on my list... I'd hate to lose a raider but you might be right. I'll see if I can get a practice game in with that.

Anyway thanks a ton for the feedback. I will definitely think on it. I might be too stubbornly attached to my two-raider build right now and probably need to get bopped a few more times before I relent. I really appreciate the thorough analysis!

1 hour ago, Ginkapo said:

I'm looking at:

Lambda
Lambda
Lambda
Valen
Saber
Whisper/Mauler

Not as cheap as you want, but I thought I'd explain why.

HUGE objective power

Huge amount of hull, with the caveat a lot of it is heavy

Saber and Mauler have the ability to hurt escorted intel which is the bain of low squad number defence forces.

Ooo... interesting... what kind of fleet would you run that alongside? What would you take as a red objective?

10 hours ago, emsgoof said:

Yes, the store matchup the other day had some no squadron lists, but it’s pretty rare for the area, and I think it’ll be the exception rather than the norm at regionals. To add on to that, Intel is pretty common for bomber lists, so you need to consider that as well.

True. I still simply don't have enough experience to know what's common or not. My sample size for determining likely opponents is very small.

3 minutes ago, duck_bird said:

2 hours ago, Ginkapo said:

I'm looking at:

Lambda
Lambda
Lambda
Valen
Saber
Whisper/Mauler

Not as cheap as you want, but I thought I'd explain why.

HUGE objective power

Huge amount of hull, with the caveat a lot of it is heavy

Saber and Mauler have the ability to hurt escorted intel which is the bain of low squad number defence forces.

Ooo... interesting... what kind of fleet would you run that alongside? What would you take as a red objective?

Well this is the current working version. I say working, I more mean that it some match ups its devestating, and in others truly useless.

http://armadawarlords.hivelabs.solutions/view_list.php?token=152898&key=e2efaf0248803170ceca9e37a3f0791b

You might notice the lack of the squad loadout I posted, thats because I am working on the next version which is substantially changed and untested. In theory it makes better use of the ultimate lifeboat and doesnt over rely on Demo getting last/first.

http://armadawarlords.hivelabs.solutions/view_list.php?token=154272&key=b94f27f6d630991d275ccf9e2cb0df3e