Hey folks, here's the list:

ISD 2: Flagship

• Ozzel
• Gunnery Team
• ECMs
• Leading Shots
• XI7s

Gladiator 2:

• Agent Kallus
• Ordnance Experts
• Assault Concussion Missiles
• Demolisher

Raider 1:

• Ordnance Experts
• External Racks

Raider 1:

• Ordnance Experts
• External Racks

Jonus

3 x Tie Fighters

Objectives: Station Assault, Hyperspace Assault, Dangerous Territory

List comes out to 392 points, which seems to be plenty in my group as we're all still pretty new and large bids are uncommon. I have yet to not go first with this list.

So the idea is that the ISD presents a huge threat area. The raiders abuse Ozzel's ability to change speeds very quickly, staying out of range before jumping ahead to get a last/first type of thing off. Ditto demolisher. I took the Glad2 and Jonus for the gimmick of getting those auto accuracies, but also for the extra flak which is useful considering how little squadron coverage I have.

I really love Ozzel's ability. Every ship in the fleet is very unpredictable and I've been able to catch people off guard by dropping from 3 to 0 forcing them to come into my range first. I also love the raiders. They don't usually survive the battle, but I had one land a hilarious 8 damage + accuracy on an ISD in my last game, so that was a lotta fun.

I'm torn on the squadrons. The Jonus gimmick has worked in that it's gotten me some accuracies, but he never lives long. The TIEs always die but I figure if they buy me even one turn of not-getting-bombed then they've done their job.

Any input on things I should change? I'm thinking Jonus might be worth dropping, but man when you get a last/first demolisher off with his ability it's pretty devastating.

All tips are much appreciated, thanks!

TBH it looks like a pretty solid all around fleet, and I don’t see much if anything I would change. Ozzel is plenty of fun and is great help for all of your ships, and is cheap to boot!

Agreed Jonus doesn’t help outright in the squad battle, but he probably can be used to bait the enemy into coming after him into overlapping flak so your screen and ships can down the enemy fighters. He doesn’t have heavy so can help pin fighters and is tough with the two braces. And if you run into a squadronless fleet he can wreak havoc supporting all 4 of your ships.

Speaking of ships, do you have any gozantis? It may be worth switching a raider into two of them with at least one having comms net to pass tokens to the flagship. Less punchy but it ups activations to five so you can position the two heavy hitters more easily.

All in all looks like a great, fun list. Keep us posted with how it performs

Hmmmm, good idea on hanging Jonus back. I think I've been throwing him to his death too early because I'm afraid of him getting engaged away from enemy ships and never getting to use his ability. So I end up jumping him up next to a ship when it looks like he's about to be jumped on. It might be worth just using him as bait though!

Yes I do have gozantis but I really love the raiders. It might be better to replace one but I just have too much fun with them.

I might be taking this to my first ever Armada tournament!

Any more input or advice from more experienced players?

Looks like a fun and maneuverable list!

I think the Assault Concussion Missiles on Demolisher and the XI7 on the ISD send a mixed message.

If you want to wear down adjacent shields, don't use XI7. If you want focused damage, don't use Assault Concussion Missiles.

Just my 2 cents.

^ what he said. XI-7 + APT is brutal

I played with Jonus/GladII when he came out and got pretty good at playing it aggressively as you say, so I just wanted to add that I wholly endorse this fleet as being fun!

I took it to an extreme, using a Coms Net Flotilla to give Demo a Squad token turn 1, and equipping Demo with Fighter Coordination Team and Flight Commander so I could move Demo into position and then spend the token + FC/FCT to move Jonus an effective speed 5 before the triple tap. It was an "all my eggs in one basket" solution, but it more or less completely prevented Jonus from getting tied up until it was in position for the big attack. It was typically one and done, as Jonus would either be dead or tied up in subsequent turns, but at that point his job was done,.

8 hours ago, duck_bird said:

I might be taking this to my first ever Armada tournament!

Any more input or advice from more experienced players?

Go through some common matchups in your head and ask yourself how you would deal with them (e.g. Sloane, MSU, BTAvenger + flotillas, etc.). Just having a very loose overall strategy/set of priorities helps when you're staring at a fleet across the table. Especially if a certain build is prevalent in your area. And have fun!

Ahhh, that does make sense!

• OK so: if I prefer ACMs in general, is there a different turbolaser upgrade I should take instead to mesh well with it? And if there is, do you recommend APT/XI7 combo or the ACM/??? combo?
• Do I want a bid with this list? I'm thinking yes... but maybe there are some objectives I could leverage well? I'd love to cram more upgrades in if I don't need a bid (relentless/SFO ideally) This is a pretty fast fleet so I think I'd be able to avoid the worst of second player alpha-strike woes.
• Speaking of objectives, are mine OK?

I don't know enough about the common builds to be honest. Armada has slowed down in Maryland and my group of players is pretty new so we haven't had any contact with the established playerbase. I'm assuming I'd struggle against any squadron heavy fleets or fleets that out-bid me with Demos or MC30s. But again I really don't have enough experience to know for sure. I hear Avenger+Flots is really strong, as is the GH2+3 lists.

This will be my first time playing against folks with way more experience than me so I'm expecting to get whooped on a little. But I still want to put up a fight.

If you go the ACM route it’s usually best to have multiple sources of ACM as you are trying to quickly overload adjacent hull zones so the damage starts piling on. Turbolasers that go well with this are ones that add dice/guarantee damage (spinals, TRC), or ones that take advantage of no shields (xx-9).

For a Demo/ISD Fleet though I would go APT/XI7. They work well together, but also allow your two threats to operate independently of one another and still be brutally effective vs a variety of threats.

In terms of a bid I’ve found that in today’s meta 6-8 points should get it for you unless you run into a last/first black dice fleet that REALLY wants first and is bidding into the low 380’s

In terms of objectives I would go Most Wanted (boring but very strong), hyperspace assault or contested Outpost (positioning vs points), and solar corona for deployment advantage and to keep your small ships braces available

No worries! That knowledge will come with playtime and experience. For now though, when sitting across from an enemy fleet try to discern where their main source of damage is coming from? How would YOU fly that fleet against your own? That may give you an idea of how to counter/avoid your opponents plans.

Yes, you may lose some games. Badly. My first tournament I went 1-9, 3-7, 5-5. But I learned a TON. Generally speaking most Armada players are very laid back. Ask as many questions as you want/need and you will find most opponents are happy to explain what is going on or strange rule/card interactions.

most importantly, have fun!

Woot! Third place! (..... out of 5......)

Anyway, had a ton of fun. Won my first game by 7 points, got tabled in game 2, and won the third game by 177.

So I made a few tiny adjustments to the list. I changed ACMs to APTs on Demolisher, and added Relentless and SFO to the ISD.

Game 1 was against Sato rebels with Salvation, Paragon, a CR90, and a Hammerhead. Mission was capture the VIP. I ran it down mid with the ISD and had Demo and the raiders flank. My opponent grabbed the objective and turned around with the corvette, escaping before I could kill it. He threw Salvation to the wolves to save the corvette. Salvation got melted by Demolisher, and I foolishly chased after the corvette with one of my raiders but never managed to catch it. Paragon and the hammerhead flanked wide, plinking away at my ISD and killing a raider. All my squads bought it. I managed to blow up the hammerhead when my opponent rammed my ISD with it. I killed two ships, lost a raider and my squads, and between the objective being lost and killing some squadrons with flak, I won by 7 points. But still technically a win which was a lotta fun for me.

Game 2 was against a Jerry list with Squall, Demolisher, and 3 gozantis. Big squad ball with Jendon/Steele, buncha bombers, some TIE aces, and another lambda. He went first and picked my hyperspace assault. Relay WRECKED me. I was heavily out-deployed and ended up slow-rolling my poor ISD into a massive pile of bombers. I jumped Demolisher in and went straight for his Quasar. The raiders split up. One went after the Quasar, and the other looked to try to threaten Demo if he jumped it forward. All 3 gozantis just ran around at top speed and I only managed to pop one of them. At the bottom of turn 2 I thought I had boxed his Quasar in, but he barely snuck it past me. Demo had done a bunch of damage to it, and after he first-activated it and ran out of my arcs I *barely* killed it with a rear arc external racks shot from a raider. Then my entire fleet got eaten alive by bombers. ISD went down slowly over a few turns. One raider got demo'd, and eventually I tried to catch some points by going after all the injured squadrons with my demo and last raider. But my opponent kited them well and blew everything else up. I'd taken out his flagship but that was about it.

Game 3 was against a Madine super-liberty, MC30 with Lando/Admonition, 2 flotillas, and a very cool variety of squads. (First time against Ewings). I got first player and picked Capture the VIP again. I put the ISD on the left, demo in the middle, and raiders on the right. ISD ran forward and turned into the battle before dropping to speed 1 on turn 2. The MC30 ran full tilt into me so I positioned Demolisher and a raider to pounce on it. The other raider arc-dodged the Liberty but didn't manage to accomplish much else. I got pretty lucky and between first-activating a raider and following up with Demolisher, I took out the MC30 before it could shoot. ISD and Liberty traded some blows but couldn't kill each other. I wiped the flotillas off the board with demo/Jonus combo. Tried a greedy play to send the raiders after the liberty but couldn't kill it without risking dying.

Anyway it was a blast overall. Everyone was very chill and relaxed and the games were a lot of fun. Overall things I noticed with my list:

• The TIE fighters all melted. I think only one of them ever got to shoot. I guess they did their job of getting in the way but mostly it meant a fighter would activate first, one-shot the TIE, and then the bomber would walk into the gap. I don't think any TIEs took more than 1 hit to die. They are just soooo squishy.
• I was very out-deployed in all my games. I might need to get more deployments somehow, but I don't know where to find points.
• I probably need to go first, or change up my objectives. Folks at the tourney suggested Contested Outpost for my yellow.
• Jonus is awesome. He died every match but his ability is soooooo good.
• Ozzel is my favorite admiral. His ability was so clutch in every game. It gives me so much control over where my ships end up.
• Raiders are awesome!
• External racks are hilariously good. A lucky raider shot can easily deal 10+ damage with them.
• Bombers ate me alive. I need a better way to deal with them. I think I might have deployed very badly in game 2 though, and my opponent very clearly knew exactly how to fly his bomber ball.

Great games, got some snazzy cards, and very much looking forward to the next one!

Congratulations!

Awesome.

TIE fighters are there to die. So long as their sacrifice moves your tactics forward then they have done their job.

Ozzel and Raiders are a good match. Speed 2 is the ideal cruising speed for a Raider and Ozzel means they can jump to 4 on a moment's notice.

Gratz on your first tournament!

Thanks! Yeah the TIEs definitely have a rough lot in life. But I'm not even sure they bought me much. Against no squadron fleets they'll probably be useless as I don't have Sloane, and against squad heavy fleets they just get deleted so quickly that they hardly slow the opposition down! Maybe I wanna drop them...?

Anyway, I think I'm gonna try to go to my local Regionals this year. So help me get my list perfected! The list as I ran it last week was:

ISD2: Ozzel, SFO, Gunnery Team, ECMS, Leading Shots, XI7s, Relentless

Glad2: Kallus, Ordnance Experts, APTs, Demolisher

Raider1: Ordnance Experts, External Racks

Raider1: Ordnance Experts, External Racks

Captain Jonus

3 TIE fighters

Most Wanted, Hyperspace Assault, Solar Corona.

It came out to 394. My biggest weakness was getting absolutely devastated by a Relay heavy bomber list, and generally being out-deployed every game. I also struggled when not first player. I think I need a larger bid or better objectives.

I ran a variant this afternoon, dropping Demolisher for an arquittens and gozanti, and dropping Jonus for another generic mook TIE. Having the extra activation really helped me out, but the arquittens itself really didn't impress me. Especially compared to Demolisher, its damage was very underwhelming.

So, idea time!

• Are there any upgrades on the ISD I can drop to save points? SFO/Relentless are pretty crucial I think. Gunnery Team and ECMs are situationally mandatory. Maybe I don't need leading shots? Maybe I drop XI7s to QBTs? I find myself usually dropping to speed 1 on turn 2 or 3, and it would help me kill flotillas... but maybe that would make me too predictable? If they see the ISD with QBTs and I deploy at speed 3 it's not really a surprise when I slow down...
• How can I justify taking ACMs instead of APTs? I know I know, but I really like this upgrade more.
• Can I drop the TIEs? It will hurt my deployment but against squad-heavy lists they aren't even much of a speed bump!
• Could I cram more raiders into this list? Overall the strategy that has been working best is to use the ISD almost as bait. Plow forward and make it public enemy #1. This allows the raiders to be seen as "lesser" threats and helps me mess with my opponent's activation order. And the contrast between the black dice ships and the ISD2 gives me great area control. I don't think the list functions without the threat of the ISD2, but maybe I could swing an ISD1? I can happily buy more raiders. (only have the 2 atm)
• Where else can I save points? I feel like the ISD2 being such a Christmas tree is the obvious answer... but I like it all shiny
• Is there another light squadron coverage I could take instead?

Any and all help is appreciated! Thanks!

Keep in mind, vs heavy bomber lists those ties are not expected to win air superiority- they are only there to delay bombers for as long as possible so you can either

a- kill the carriers

b- flak them to death with overlapping ship flak

They are there to make positioning as much of a headache as possible for your opponent, increasing their chances of making a mistake or being unable to bomb ships with their full bomber wing.

Maybe look into dropping one raider for two gozantis? That will help with the activations for sure.

Id keep your ISD the way it is, it presents such a huge threat area (especially with Ozzel).

I generally avoid ACM unless I am running Demo with ER raiders and some kittens in support- this is one of the few instances (barring running a bomber wing of your own) that I would reccomend going ACM over APT on Demo- it’s just better and it’s cheaper to boot!

20 minutes ago, duck_bird said:

It came out to 394. My biggest weakness was getting absolutely devastated by a Relay heavy bomber list, and generally being out-deployed every game. I also struggled when not first player. I think I need a larger bid or better objectives.

There is not much you can do about this other than add more squad presence and bid harder for first.

I ran a variant this afternoon, dropping Demolisher for an arquittens and gozanti, and dropping Jonus for another generic mook TIE. Having the extra activation really helped me out, but the arquittens itself really didn't impress me. Especially compared to Demolisher, its damage was very underwhelming.

Arquitens are terrible as damage pushers. They aren't bad in a trailing roll or as a supplement, but they are definitely not a Gladiator.

So, idea time!

• Are there any upgrades on the ISD I can drop to save points? SFO/Relentless are pretty crucial I think. Gunnery Team and ECMs are situationally mandatory. Maybe I don't need leading shots? Maybe I drop XI7s to QBTs? I find myself usually dropping to speed 1 on turn 2 or 3, and it would help me kill flotillas... but maybe that would make me too predictable? If they see the ISD with QBTs and I deploy at speed 3 it's not really a surprise when I slow down...

SFO/Relentless is, end of the day, quality of life and can be cut. If you have the right command locked in every turn then its wasted points. Albeit its only 4 wasted points. IMO your Impstar is already at minimum effectiveness. I would not change anything else.

• How can I justify taking ACMs instead of APTs? I know I know, but I really like this upgrade more.

You cannot. It is less effective and more expensive.

• Can I drop the TIEs? It will hurt my deployment but against squad-heavy lists they aren't even much of a speed bump!

Ceina/Valen is an adequate speed bump that will arguably be more effective than generic ties.

• Could I cram more raiders into this list? Overall the strategy that has been working best is to use the ISD almost as bait. Plow forward and make it public enemy #1. This allows the raiders to be seen as "lesser" threats and helps me mess with my opponent's activation order. And the contrast between the black dice ships and the ISD2 gives me great area control. I don't think the list functions without the threat of the ISD2, but maybe I could swing an ISD1? I can happily buy more raiders. (only have the 2 atm)

You are already maxed on points, unless you want to make the Gladiator a raider and a gozanti.

• Where else can I save points? I feel like the ISD2 being such a Christmas tree is the obvious answer... but I like it all shiny

Glad-I and lose Jonus. ISD only has the aforementioned 4 spare points.

• Is there another light squadron coverage I could take instead?

See above

Any and all help is appreciated! Thanks!

Gotcha. I'll keep playing around with it. There's a mini tournament coming up next weekend and I'll see how I feel without SFO or Relentless. Honestly I'm just not confident in my command dials to run without it. Today it pulled its weight letting me get an ASAP engineering command to repair a brutal critical hit. If I was more confident with picking the correct dials I could definitely run without it, you are right.

I'll try Valen/Cienna out. That would definitely be more durable than the mooks.

Thanks!

Replacing a Raider with a Gozanti and stripping not so useful upgrades would allow having a real squadron regiment (see List 1). But, then also, thought-experiments tend to be very useful. How would you deal with List 2? Mind though that the optimal Cymoon 1 is not yet released. The point is, however, to ask the question that whether your list can be optimal enough or not. Perhaps the two Raiders and the Gladiator make for too many similar eggs for your basket.

================================================================

List 1:

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 400/400

Commander: Admiral Ozzel

Assault Objective: Station Assault
Defense Objective: Capture the VIP
Navigation Objective: Solar Corona

[ flagship ] Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120 points)
- Admiral Ozzel ( 20 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)
= 154 total ship cost

Gladiator I-Class Star Destroyer (56 points)
- Demolisher ( 10 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)
= 75 total ship cost

Raider-I Class Corvette (44 points)
- External Racks ( 3 points)
= 47 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
= 23 total ship cost

1 Colonel Jendon ( 20 points)
1 Maarek Steele ( 21 points)
1 Boba Fett ( 26 points)
1 Valen Rudor ( 13 points)
1 IG-88 ( 21 points)

================================================================

List 2:

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 399/400

Commander: Moff Jerjerrod

Assault Objective: Station Assault
Defense Objective: Capture the VIP
Navigation Objective: Solar Corona

Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120 points)
- Captain Needa ( 2 points)
- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)
= 129 total ship cost

[ flagship ] Imperial Star Destroyer Cymoon 1 Refit (112 points)
- Moff Jerjerrod ( 23 points)
- Relentless ( 3 points)
- Skilled First Officer ( 1 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
= 146 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
= 23 total ship cost

1 Maarek Steele ( 21 points)
1 Colonel Jendon ( 20 points)
1 Boba Fett ( 26 points)
1 IG-88 ( 21 points)
1 Valen Rudor ( 13 points)

5 hours ago, dfg said:

Replacing a Raider with a Gozanti and stripping not so useful upgrades would allow having a real squadron regiment (see List 1). But, then also, thought-experiments tend to be very useful. How would you deal with List 2? Mind though that the optimal Cymoon 1 is not yet released. The point is, however, to ask the question that whether your list can be optimal enough or not. Perhaps the two Raiders and the Gladiator make for too many similar eggs

Those who do not bring rerolls will always, in time, come to regret it.

Seriously, though, Boba costs more than a comms net Gozanti and doesn’t really earn his points back without the right kind of fleet. I’d ditch Fett, IG-88 or even Valen for some cheaper fighters, dice control, and a bid. These things matter. Cutting one squadron doesn’t even hurt deployment, luckily.

5 hours ago, The Jabbawookie said:

Those who do not bring rerolls will always, in time, come to regret it.

Seriously, though, Boba costs more than a comms net Gozanti and doesn’t really earn his points back without the right kind of fleet. I’d ditch Fett, IG-88 or even Valen for some cheaper fighters, dice control, and a bid. These things matter. Cutting one squadron doesn’t even hurt deployment, luckily.

Raider gets to attack once with 4 to 5 black dice which on average produce 1 blank result and the Raider should have a concentrate fire token to reroll that one die. I would not buy insurance against an anomaly result with the 4 points (almost 10% of the cost of the Raider) in this case, there are better uses for the points.

On the squadron selection, it has to be tested out. Personally I would be interested to know how those 5 fare against a cheap squadron spam that is activated by ships and whether there exist more optimal picks that do not require a dedicated carrier ship.

5 hours ago, dfg said:

Raider gets to attack once with 4 to 5 black dice which on average produce 1 blank result and the Raider should have a concentrate fire token to reroll that one die. I would not buy insurance against an anomaly result with the 4 points (almost 10% of the cost of the Raider) in this case, there are better uses for the points.

On the squadron selection, it has to be tested out. Personally I would be interested to know how those 5 fare against a cheap squadron spam that is activated by ships and whether there exist more optimal picks that do not require a dedicated carrier ship.

Consider me an anomaly, cause I frequently roll 4 blanks on blacks

4 hours ago, dfg said:

Raider gets to attack once with 4 to 5 black dice which on average produce 1 blank result and the Raider should have a concentrate fire token to reroll that one die. I would not buy insurance against an anomaly result with the 4 points (almost 10% of the cost of the Raider) in this case, there are better uses for the points.

On the squadron selection, it has to be tested out. Personally I would be interested to know how those 5 fare against a cheap squadron spam that is activated by ships and whether there exist more optimal picks that do not require a dedicated carrier ship.

I was referring to the lack of leading shots on the ISD-II. Although, now that you mention it, the raider could use some ordnance experts. A Raider without rerolls has a 31.64% chance of rolling 2 or more blanks, and no way to crit fish. If it’s banked a CF token, it doesn’t have a nav token, and will likely be rolling 4 dice. That 1 attack is, as you say, what the raider is there for. I believe it’s better to spend that last 4 points than to roll 2-4 blanks in 3/10 games. I’ll admit that’s really just personal preference, though. If you’ve been saving 4 points and still doing reliable damage, far be it from me to stop you.

As for Fett & co., the issue I run into is that a dedicated MFC or larger will gleefully shred 101 points of rogues. A bomber group will ignore the rogues by outpacing (Imperial) or tanking (Rebel), and hit your ships. Both will usually hit first thanks to squadron commands. With 101 points invested into squadrons, a fleet should be able to reliably kill or at least delay anything, or those points bought neither the antisquadron damage of a fighter screen nor the antiship potential of a bomber wing. Most of the major rogue shenanigans are considered a Rebel thing, sadly.

Thanks for all the replies, folks. I'm really enjoying hearing the various opinions and strategies! I've been playing around with lists and come up with a few variations. They're all pretty similar with tiny differences in upgrades or ship layout. There's always Ozzel on an ISD 2, demolisher, and some raiders. I am just really enjoying the contrast between the long range threat zone of the ISD and the close range burst potential of the raiders and demolisher. I am mostly torn on upgrades for the ISD2, which version of Demo to take, whether or not to get a 5th activation, and which (if any) squadrons to take.

The original: Ozzel Mk1 (394)

ISD2: Ozzel, SFO, Gunnery Team, ECMS, Leading Shots, XI7s, Relentless

Glad2: Kallus, Ordnance Experts, APTs, Demolisher

Raider1: Ordnance Experts, External Racks

Raider1: Ordnance Experts, External Racks

Captain Jonus

3 TIE fighters

Most Wanted, Hyperspace Assault, Solar Corona.

Ozzel Mk2: (391)

ISD2: Ozzel, SFO, Gunnery Team, ECMS, Leading Shots, Spinals, Relentless

Glad1: Kallus, Ordnance Experts, Engine Techs, ACMs, Demolisher

Raider1: Ordnance Experts, External Racks

Raider1: Ordnance Experts, External Racks

Ciena + Valen

Most Wanted, Solar Corona, Hyperspace Assault

Ozzel Mk3: (389)

ISD2: Ozzel, SFO, Gunnery Team, Reinforced Blast Doors, DTTs, Relentless

Glad1: Ordnance Experts, APTs, Demolisher

Raider1: Ordnance Experts, External Racks

Raider1: Ordnance Experts, External Racks

Raider1: Ordnance Experts, External Racks

Blockade Run, Hyperspace Assault, Solar Corona

Ozzel Mk4: (393)

ISD2: Ozzel, Damage Control Officer, Gunnery Team, Quad Laser Turrets, ECM, Leading Shots, Spinals, Relentless

Glad2: Kallus, Ordnance Experts, ACMs, Demolisher

Raider1: Ordnance Experts, External Racks

Raider1: Ordnance Experts, External Racks

Gozanti: Comms Net

Most Wanted, Hyperspace Assault, Solar Corona

Alrighty. So they're all kinda similar. Having the Gozanti proved useful in practice games. Being able to comms net extra tokens over to the ISD was really useful to let it do other commands. I played against a kitted out MC30 who out-bid me by a bunch the other day and it had me thinking if I should give DCO a try. I looked through the lists from Atlanta and Michigan and it looks like bomber fleets usually have no bid, demolisher or MC30 lists usually have a medium bid, and dual ISD lists usually have a pretty large bid. I wonder if it's even worth trying to hit that massive (13+ point) bid, or if I should just slap DCO on the ISD and tank the first demo or MC30 hit? In my game last week my opponent went first AND had me out-activated, and so I wasn't able to prevent the double arc MC30 list. But honestly with ECMs I ended up taking 2 APT crits and like 5 hull damage. But I survived. If I had DCO I would have just taken 5 face down, which is manageable. It let me set my raiders up for alpha strikes. I can use the ISD almost as bait or a tank.

As far as ISD weapon upgrades go, I'm leaning towards Spinals, DTTs, or QBTs. All of them help kinda deal with the possibility of rolling blanks with reds, and could help pop flotillas at long range. I just wonder if I'll miss Jonus. I love having Kallus on the glad2 because everyone expects the demolisher triple tap on their ships and plans for it. Not many folks expect the demo triple tap on their squadrons. It can get ugly fast!

I know I'm being a little stubborn and still trying to fit ACMs instead of APTs. I've used both and while APTs might be better there's just something about popping all the shield dials that's incredibly fun.

I'm sticking with Relentless because I still find myself not correctly anticipating what orders I'll need 3 turns ahead. That's something I can drop as I get more experience, but for now it's been incredibly helpful.

I wonder if there's a way I can get Ciena and Jonus in there without dropping a raider. Jonus is so much fun and terrific bait, and Ciena's a great speed bump.

Anyway, let me know what you all think! As always, all input is appreciated. Thanks!

I absolutely love DCO, especially on a flagship ISD or MC80 (barring Lando of course). My meta is full of black dice ships with apt and Intel Officer, and DCO sort of soft counters that. They Intel Officer your brace, no worries just contain the crit and take it on shields. Next shot you are free to brace and burn the contain if you’d like, and you are left with a nearly unscathed ISD to retaliate, it’s pretty dang good. Also helps vs Norra crits, dodonnas pride, xx-9, etc, so I usually get good mileage out of it.

As far as Turbolasers go for the ISD, it really depends on how you play it- if you charge in fast I’d go with XI7- it makes big shots REALLY hurt as they go straight to hull, and you can one shot mc-30’s at medium with this one Upgrade. However, if you slow roll and use it as a sniper I’d go QBT- I’ve recently fallen in love with this upgrade on ISD’s. They give rerolls at long range and, most importantly, work from any arc. This means that your side arcs where small ships used to hide are no longer safe- with a conc fire they can throw 6 dice, that’s a victory front arc!

Glad 2 Kallus is a mighty fine squadron killing machine- but IMO only worth it on the two- if you go Glad one my favorite officers (in order) are Intel Officer, Tua, Monteferrat. Again, just depends on playstyle.

It sounds like you really like ACM (even though APT is better lol), so why not roll with it and have fun? It does start to stack damage incredibly fast once shields are down, so if Demo is living until endgame it could be brutal.

My personal favorite out of the above lists is the mark 4, though I might make a few changes (drop spinals to one of the above turbolasers, ACM to APT, and drop QLT)- That’s 19 points now for either a crazy high bid, engine techs on demo (my recommendation), or two tie fighters.

Im liking seeing the development of this list and am glad you’re having fun with it!

Agree with pretty much everything @MandalorianMoose said, just one thing: ACMs can work well in certain cases. The extra damage helps when you can’t reliably hit the same hull zone (e.g. plinking away at long range with Arqs,) and makes redirecting a lot less useful. APT is a little more reliably useful, but both have a place. I also really like mk. 4, but as you probably already know, you’ll want a plan for both bombers and getting consistently out-deployed.