So kind surprised no one's brought it up yet, but now that Genesys is out we can see what is essentially a revised vehicle rules system in it. There's some new maneuvers in there and they beefed up the Gain the Advantage action a little. At first glance seems like it wouldn't be too hard to port over to Star Wars but wanted others thoughts.

It's all good stuff in my eyes. I know the confusion over changing range bands and capital ships accelerating/ is dispensed with in Genesys, in fact Move is just a function of current speed and not a Maneuver that's required although there is one that allows the Pilot to tweak Range if they want to.

Combat is based on range and not silhouette size. The new Strategic range band. No more Close/Short insanity, range bands have the same name regardless of setting.

Would porting those rules over make a vehicle-focused campaign (such as a starfighter squadron) run a bit more smoothly? Is there anything that would help the fragility problem with starfighters?

I think the ones I mentioned make ship stuff easier overall. Fighters aren't really addressed, in fact other than your basic ship movement and Action/Maneuver thing, there are 3 vehicle examples only, spanning all genre, and no weapon charts provided, or any kind of upgrading or tweaking of them. I assume that will be addressed in the additional setting books.

Fighters in general my opinion is FFG wants them fragile and intended it be necessary for a skilled PC, and/or the squad/squadron rules to be used to keep them in the air.

Something that helps the "fighter fragility" aspect is the "Brace for Impact" maneuver that reduces incoming damage by silhouette.

Yup, it's a good one. Your vehicle Strain limits it, but it is handy for reducing crits, at least some if you've got the SS to spare.

The order 66 podcast just did an episode on space combat and had some house rules they have used and recommend.

One of the house rules sounds close to Brace for impact, take strain to avoid damage.

They made it official in Genesys. It helps but it is swapping SS for HT and the trouble with fighters is they don't have gobs of either. So it helps, but fighters remain pretty squishy.

3 minutes ago, damnkid3 said:

The order 66 podcast just did an episode on space combat and had some house rules they have used and recommend.

One of the house rules sounds close to Brace for impact, take strain to avoid damage.

Yeah Phil's snap roll basically got turned into the barrel roll talent in Genesys.

Can someone post the new rules from Genesys ? at least what changed regarding space combat, the new maneuver etc ?

Thanks

13 hours ago, 2P51 said:

They made it official in Genesys. It helps but it is swapping SS for HT and the trouble with fighters is they don't have gobs of either. So it helps, but fighters remain pretty squishy.

SS can be repaired easily, dedicated pilots usually have ways to deal with system strain. Hotshots just take the strain themselves, pilots have double actions can spend one on a damage control check without much problems, a lot of the fighters have astromechs who can do this as well. IIRC even NPC astromechs can use damage control for 3 advantages on the pilot's check.

I don't have genesys yet, it should be arriving at my FLGS by next thursday. Can you guys give me a full quote on the new GtA and Brace for Impact ?

Something tells me FFG might take issue with posting rules verbatim.

33 minutes ago, themensch said:

Something tells me FFG might take issue with posting rules verbatim.

Honestly with the kind of stuff they've permitted on this forum I wouldn't be surprised if they don't do anything about it, but it still feels a bit iffy.

1 hour ago, themensch said:

Something tells me FFG might take issue with posting rules verbatim.

Quotes and small excerpts are perfectly fine. No one is asking for a complete scan and we have plenty of examples in the star wars forums with FFG being fine with whole talent tree being posted. See basically every "If got XY" over in the star wars RPG forums, it's basically a tradition.

Anyway, I think they actually have overdone it with brace for impact as it seems strictly superior to evasive maneuvers for all practical purpose in anything sil 3 and up. As GM I would be strictly against introducing this into our game, as a player I would be thrilled to ignore 13 points of damage on each hit, while getting access to dangerous driving.

On the plus side, it is not downright broken as snap roll

6 hours ago, SEApocalypse said:

SS can be repaired easily, dedicated pilots usually have ways to deal with system strain. Hotshots just take the strain themselves, pilots have double actions can spend one on a damage control check without much problems, a lot of the fighters have astromechs who can do this as well. IIRC even NPC astromechs can use damage control for 3 advantages on the pilot's check.

I don't have genesys yet, it should be arriving at my FLGS by next thursday. Can you guys give me a full quote on the new GtA and Brace for Impact ?

I don't have it in front of me right now but Brace for Impact is a maneuver that on the next attack removes up to your silhouette in damage in exchange for the equal amount of SS. If you succeed at the new GtA it upgrades your attacks twice and upgrades the difficulty of all attacks against you twice. Hopefully I remembered that right.

Not sure what to think about the difficulty change from silhouette to range based for attacks. Although the silhouette difference rules still apply so its still harder for a capitol ship to hit a fighter than a equally sized ship.

1 minute ago, Therian said:

Although the silhouette difference rules still apply so its still harder for a capitol ship to hit a fighter.

Typo? You meant easier I assume.

1 hour ago, themensch said:

Something tells me FFG might take issue with posting rules verbatim.

In this context, discussing relevant RAW, if you type it out yourself and reference the page numbers you'll be okay, it's really only if you scan/photo pages and post them that it becomes an issue.

I edited to clarify. Essentially if something is 2 smaller silhouette it adds 2 difficulty to hit but that is it. Where previously it could go up to 5 difficulty from the size difference alone.

The silouette size rule is in the general combat section. Bigger hitting smaller is harder, but it's only one increase.

2 minutes ago, 2P51 said:

The silouette size rule is in the general combat section. Bigger hitting smaller is harder, but it's only one increase.

Which means star destroyer would annihilate fighters with ease. Something we never have seen onscreen.

7 hours ago, SEApocalypse said:

SS can be repaired easily, dedicated pilots usually have ways to deal with system strain. Hotshots just take the strain themselves, pilots have double actions can spend one on a damage control check without much problems, a lot of the fighters have astromechs who can do this as well. IIRC even NPC astromechs can use damage control for 3 advantages on the pilot's check.

I don't have genesys yet, it should be arriving at my FLGS by next thursday. Can you guys give me a full quote on the new GtA and Brace for Impact ?

Provided you get a chance to. Fighters don't have much to play with and given it's a **** ton easier for capital ships to hit fighters in Genesys I don't think I'd paint a big red S on them anytime soon....

2 minutes ago, 2P51 said:

Provided you get a chance to. Fighters don't have much to play with and given it's a **** ton easier for capital ships to hit fighters in Genesys I don't think I'd paint a big red S on them anytime soon....

Yeah I'm thinking I'm going to leave the attack difficulties silhouette based. For sure in Star Wars anyway.

18 minutes ago, 2P51 said:

Provided you get a chance to. Fighters don't have much to play with and given it's a **** ton easier for capital ships to hit fighters in Genesys I don't think I'd paint a big red S on them anytime soon....

Yeah, with the shooting based on range and not size the only way for fighters to survive is their pilots take the last and following first init slot and go in, fire twice and move out. They are fast enough to get away with that against slower ships as they should be able to move 6 range bands per turn. But as you can only move 2 range bands per turn with your maneuvers and capitals get free movement as well ... your chances to not get hit are rather limited ... at least if you are the target of them chasing you, while your goal is to fight them.

With everything so fast, you can not keep the distance between yourself and your targets either.

The biggest weakness here is imho that FFG still believes that upgrading the difficulty is an effective defensive measure. I rather would have more setback dice than upgrades. ;-)

edit: Though the whole systems seems rather ... uninspired. What happens when a fighter moves beyond strategic? Is crossing from strategic to medium really just requiring 3 maneuvers. (So basically anything at speed 1 does this in one round ?!). And planetary scale medium means in Genesys just a a up to about 100m, while strategic is thousands of kilometer.

14 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

Yeah, with the shooting based on range and not size the only way for fighters to survive is their pilots take the last and following first init slot and go in, fire twice and move out. They are fast enough to get away with that against slower ships as they should be able to move 6 range bands per turn. But as you can only move 2 range bands per turn with your maneuvers and capitals get free movement as well ... your chances to not get hit are rather limited ... at least if you are the target of them chasing you, while your goal is to fight them.

With everything so fast, you can not keep the distance between yourself and your targets either.

The biggest weakness here is imho that FFG still believes that upgrading the difficulty is an effective defensive measure. I rather would have more setback dice than upgrades. ;-)

edit: Though the whole systems seems rather ... uninspired. What happens when a fighter moves beyond strategic? Is crossing from strategic to medium really just requiring 3 maneuvers. (So basically anything at speed 1 does this in one round ?!). And planetary scale medium means in Genesys just a a up to about 100m, while strategic is thousands of kilometer.

Like I said, I'm kinda iffy about it. I dig the Genesys version of Gain the Advantage though.

20 minutes ago, Therian said:

Like I said, I'm kinda iffy about it. I dig the Genesys version of Gain the Advantage though.

Even that one seems iffy. Two upgrades to your own shots? Sure. Seems like it is a good attack run attacking.
But two upgrades for shots against you from your target? How is my flying it making more dangerous for the opponent to screw up in a major way and provoking him into crashing into something or losing sight of me, etc

For all practical purpose it would seem more in line to replace in vehicle combat of genesys all mentions of upgrading with increase difficulty. Medium Range, GtA, double evade, speed 5, a difficulty 7, now we are talking. It removes capital ships blowing themselves up with their guns when shooting at fighters and makes fighters against anything which can not use GtA themselves problematic. (The example with rules as written would end up with 3 challenge and one difficulity dice instead.)