I is not my intention to discuss whether squadrons are good for the the game or bad. I think they are cool, but I can see how they can make games slower and take more energy.

In the current Meta squadrons are strong, so much so that some people have bemoaned the fact that that you can't play competitively without them. For those of you who want to try an a squadron-less list (or minimal squadrons) let me suggest ISD (probably 2s) with QLT. ISDs have good anti-squadron batteries and enough hits that they can stay around long enough to kill some squadrons. But their are a couple of things that make ISDs that much better without squadron support. First of all Gunner Teams. No I hardly ever take ISDs without gunnery teams so it isn't much of a consideration to make sure I have them if I don't have my fighter screen. Secondly I love QLT. Sure it is only one dice back every time you are attacked, but there are lots of fighters that only throw one dice against ships, so it is a pretty even trade. Finally Leading shots, again this is a pretty common upgrade on ISDs no matter what, but don't forget that you can spend a blue dice to reroll the rest, this is great insurance against a double miss.

A couple of other things to remember on non-ISD ships. Warlord on a VIC lets lets you change accuracies to hits on AA attacks as well. And though it has often been maligned, the raider can provide cheap activations with your ISDs as well as fighter cover.

28 minutes ago, Hrathen said:

Secondly I love QLT. Sure it is only one dice back every time you are attacked

You are aware all Counter dice are blue unless stated otherwise, right?

2 minutes ago, Snipafist said:

You are aware all Counter dice are blue unless stated otherwise, right?

That's "back," not black bud.

Dont forget to slap on Point Defence Reroute Circuits on that ISD 1 to reroll that QLT dice

That's ironic that you mention it. I've been experimenting with a QLT ISD in the past two weeks. Jury is still out in my opinion. There are a number of problems to solve to play against the best played squadron lists.

So to start, yes, I do think against general run-of-the-mill squadron lists, they'll be brutal. Combined with some light squadron cover of your own, you can quite possibly sweep the squadron mini-game.

Against the better played squadron lists: 1. I do worry about lists with strategic that can use it to generate a significant number of points, or which can push mines/ion cannon tokens exactly where they need them for damage. 2. I worry about heavier bomber lists. Generic Y-wings can just tank the QLT shots due to their hull. Yavaris double-tapping B-wings might just hit hard enough to justify taking the QLT damage, so the end result there might be you kill a couple more B-wings than you would have, but still otherwise lose. 3. I worry about an approach that might amount to forgetting about the ISD (or one of them if you bring two), bagging the other remaining points, and then exit with at least a 7-4 if not an 8-3.

25 minutes ago, Irokenics said:

Dont forget to slap on Point Defence Reroute Circuits on that ISD 1 to reroll that QLT dice

Don't Been there, tried that, not worth the points.

1 hour ago, Truthiness said:

That's "back," not black bud.

The poor man has a not-yet-month old. Probably hasn't slept properly in twice that long.

1 hour ago, Truthiness said:

That's "back," not black bud.

I had to do a double take myself...

Remember to add agent Kallus to make the counter(1) into a blue + black against character squadrons.

I have played against 2 ISDs with counter(1) and he got one kill after I blew up one ISD and 2 more by the time I killed the other. I think a token 4 TIE-Fs is needed to tip the balance earlier in the game.

Also, for my own opinions. QLT is a little inconsistent for Imperials. Rebels can use Toryn, which makes it viable on that side of the table. It's not a bad card, especially depending on your local meta. Adding in Kallus can make for some nasty AA. It's also helpful to have your own squads to finish off the damaged targets from QLT.

Agreed about Kallus. In my opinion he's a must on a ship with QLT (and de-facto allows to reroll QLT shots against named squads via LS or OE) . The problem with taking squads in addition to QLT is usually points. In a 2ISD builds one rarely if ever can justify spending points on both.

On the other note, in my mind QLT is one of the reasons that Rhymer is pretty viable even after nerf.

Remember the main bomber threat these days is marekjendon. So if you have kallus or toryn in the mix they can hopefully grind him down.

The list sent perfect, I find it is most effective against Sloane TIE lists and Biggs X-wing spam list. I find when you are fighting a Yavaris Bomber list, the best thing to do is just kill Yavaris. With and ISD or two it doesn’t take long if they let you get the shots.

3 hours ago, Truthiness said:

That's "back," not black bud.

True, my bad. I misread. I do see people using QLTs on occasion thinking they can add a die of any color in their flak with Counter 1 and so I've seen people attempting to use a black die with it before.

2 hours ago, GiledPallaeon said:

The poor man has a not-yet-month old. Probably hasn't slept properly in twice that long.

Thanks. He has his good nights about 2/3 of the time but Friday night... hoo boy. I got maybe 5-6 hours of sleep and the missus, god bless her mommy-chemical-swamped brain, got 1.5 hours (to be fair to me, she decided of her own volition to stay up with the little goblin while he fussed all night and to not wake me, so I didn't have much say in that decision).

46 minutes ago, JJs Juggernaut said:

Also, for my own opinions. QLT is a little inconsistent for Imperials. Rebels can use Toryn, which makes it viable on that side of the table. It's not a bad card, especially depending on your local meta. Adding in Kallus can make for some nasty AA. It's also helpful to have your own squads to finish off the damaged targets from QLT.

This is pretty much my feelings on the matter as well. It's better with Rebels due to Toryn but Imperials can do okay with Kallus. It is absolutely not something that lets you go without squadrons, though. On its own, it inflicts 1 damage against squadrons 50% of the time, which is to say that it's absolutely inadequate to stop bombers from tearing you to pieces. With squadron support it can do all right.

Optimizing its use in fleet building is difficult, in my opinion. You need to put it on something where it's better than spending the same 5 points towards fighter coverage. On small ships it's usually wasted because it won't proc that much before bombers destroy the ships. On large centerpiece ships (like an ISD flagship, let's say), bomber fleets simply can't afford to ignore about half your fleet points spent on one juicy target, so it will definitely go further but it won't be sufficient to really stop or disincentivize bombers from going after the ship, especially on its own.

You also run into issues where even if it brings squadrons down to 1 HP, without friendly squadrons around, those squadrons can bug out and retain their points at least and can heal on the station and come back later at worst.

4 hours ago, Irokenics said:

Dont forget to slap on Point Defence Reroute Circuits on that ISD 1 to reroll that QLT dice

Include Tua + Cluster Bombs for the win!

(For most situational )

4 minutes ago, Snipafist said:

It is absolutely not something that lets you go without squadrons, though.

Based on my experience, I would respectfully disagree here (QLT was crucial in several of my squadronless lists that did have some level of success)

5 minutes ago, Snipafist said:

without friendly squadrons around, those squadrons can bug out and retain their points at least and can heal on the station and come back later at worst.

And this is a reason to either play contested outpost or to prioritize station placement if playing squadronless.

2 minutes ago, CaribbeanNinja said:

Include Tua + Cluster Bombs for the win!

(For most situational )

And don't forget External Racks!! Oh wait.. You can't do Tua and Kallus at the same time. Bye Felicia Tua!

I have tried them on an ISD and don’t find them overly effective. I would rather go for the carrier or kill the relays with a fighter sreen

I know @PT106 has had some success with them, and my ability to not fly a dual ISD list into the ground has improved since the last time I seriously tried them, but I tend to agree with @Snipafist; when you're strapped for points in list building, they're often the top of the chopping block. If you can slide Kallus in there, he helps make them worth it, but only on his ship. And half the time that's Flag, and I have a list of officers a mile long chomping at the bit for that seat. As part of a unified strategy, they're fine, but I've never found that strategy in a way that works for me. Definitely a YMMV tactic/card.

7 hours ago, PT106 said:

Don't Been there, tried that, not worth the points.

+1. Same Experience here. Even with 2 isd2, qlt,ls, the flak wast enough to keep the fighters away. They got damaged, but They Jump inti hyperspace before they pop, and usually there is no time to Kill them before going down. In the End, all Points invested in anti-squad went elsewhere.

8 hours ago, PT106 said:

Don't Been there, tried that, not worth the points.

eh, gotta use that extra offensive slot!

I'm thinking

ISD1, Kallus, QLT, PDR, Ordnance Experts, Dual Turbolaser Turrets.

So a brace ace attacks. You counter attack with 1 blue and 1 black from kallus, exhaust DTT, roll a double, discard the blank, keep the hit. 3 dmg, win.

1 hour ago, Irokenics said:

I'm thinking

ISD1, Kallus, QLT, PDR, Ordnance Experts, Dual Turbolaser Turrets.

So a brace ace attacks. You counter attack with 1 blue and 1 black from kallus, exhaust DTT, roll a double, discard the blank, keep the hit. 3 dmg, win.

Here's a few ships that I've had success using as flak platforms.

Anti-Squad ISDs

Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120 points)
- Avenger ( 5 points)
- Agent Kallus ( 3 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Quad Laser Turrets ( 5 points)
- Reinforced Blast Doors ( 5 points)
- Dual Turbolaser Turrets ( 5 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 154 total ship cost

Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120 points)
- Devastator ( 10 points)
- Agent Kallus ( 3 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Quad Laser Turrets ( 5 points)
- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)
- Dual Turbolaser Turrets ( 5 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 161 total ship cost

Anti-Squad Vic

Victory I-Class Star Destroyer (73 points)
- Warlord ( 8 points)
- Agent Kallus ( 3 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Quad Laser Turrets ( 5 points)
- H9 Turbolasers ( 8 points)
- External Racks ( 3 points)
= 107 total ship cost

Anti-Squad Gladiator

Gladiator II-Class Star Destroyer (62 points)
- Demolisher ( 10 points)
- Agent Kallus ( 3 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
- Engine Techs ( 8 points)
- Flechette Torpedoes ( 3 points)
= 90 total ship cost

Anti-Squad Raiders

Raider-I Class Corvette (44 points)
- Instigator ( 4 points)
- Agent Kallus ( 3 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
- Quad Laser Turrets ( 5 points)
- Flechette Torpedoes ( 3 points)
= 63 total ship cost

Raider-I Class Corvette (44 points)
- Impetuous ( 4 points)
- Agent Kallus ( 3 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
- Quad Laser Turrets ( 5 points)
- Flechette Torpedoes ( 3 points)
= 63 total ship cost

The Warlord combo is one of if not my favorite ship. Expensive as ****, with all the drawbacks of a Vicotry class star destroyer but its so gratifying to see a bomber make and attack and I casually respond... it takes a damage for attacking me.

Also double gratifying for blanketing an entire fighter ball and declaring they all take one damage.