13 minutes ago, Doughnut said:

I've been thinking of a way to apply a sort of 'Blood Magic' talent. Something like:

Blood Magic (Tier 3, Ranked, Passive) Instead of taking 2 strain to perform a magic action, the spellcaster character may choose to take a number of wounds equal to their ranks in Blood Mage. This adds a Boost die per wound taken in this way, as well as fulfills the requirement of the 2 strain a magic action normally takes.

Improved Blood Magic (Tier 4, Passive, Requires Blood Magic ) The spellcaster can further increase the effectiveness of their spells with their own life force. The character may spend 3 Advantage or 1 triumph to take a wound to upgrade their next magic action check per wound taken.

Supreme Blood Magic (Tier 5, Incidental, Requires Blood Magic ) Once per game session the spellcaster character may make a magic action check and take any number of wounds up to their wound threshold to downgrade the check to a minimum of Easy difficulty.

Sorry for the edit, wanted to format and clarify the requirements and actions.

I love the theme.

I love that blood magic doesn't give you the option of under-paying. If you buy 2 ranks, you always have to take 2 wounds for the 2 boosts. Very "deal with the devil."

Improved only allows you to pay 1 wound, for 3 advantage/1 triumph, but you can get an upgrade without a paying a wound without buying the talent. Perhaps make it a maneuver to pay a wound and upgrade your next check instead?

I wonder about making some talents cost critical injuries instead. Could be cool because wounds are generally just pain and crits are real injuries, but it might be tough to balance.

Well... to get on board with this thread, I like the idea behind what I have seen with other ”Signature Spell” talents, but had come up with my own last night while at work.

Activation: Passive

Ranked: Yes

When you take this talent, select one magic action and any number of upgrades. When you use this combination of magic action and upgrades, you suffer one less strain. Once created, a Signature Spell cannot be changed.

Activation: Passive

Ranked: Yes

When you take this talent, select one Signature Spell of equal or lower Tier. When performing that Signature Spell, the difficulty for casting is reduced by one to a minimum of Easy.

Activation: Passive

Ranked: No

When you take this talent, select one Signature Spell. Once per session, when performing that Signature Spell, upgrade the spell check a number of times equal to your ranks in Knowledge.

There are a couple of force talents I translated to magic talents from EotE, AoR, and F&D:

Quick Cast (Tier 5, Incidental) Once per session, the spellcaster character may suffer 2 strain to perform a magic action check as a maneuver (in addition to the 2 strain normally spent to make a magic action check).

Quick Cast is a copy of The Force is My Ally.

Opportunity Spell (Tier 5, Maneuver) Whenever the spellcaster character misses an opponent with a combat check and generates 1 triumph or 3 advantage the character may spend this to perform a magic action check that targets one or more allies as a maneuver (they still must be able to perform maneuvers, and may not perform more than two maneuvers in a turn.)

Opportunity Spell is a copy of Unity Assault

Warmage (Tier 5, Passive) Upon missing an opponent with a combat check the character may spend 1 Triumph or 3 Advantage to perform a magic action check as a maneuver this turn (the character must still be able to perform maneuvers, and still may not perform more than two maneuvers in a turn.)

Warmage is a copy of Force Assault

Also, I stand corrected.

Quote

Rules Question:
In the new Genesys RPG, do magic casters pay an Advantage cost to activate additional effects they’ve already purchased for a spell with a difficulty increase to the spell? (e.g. If a character purchases the Blast, Fire, and Range upgrades for an attack spell, making the spell Daunting difficulty, must they then also pay Advantages to activate Burn and Blast?)

Hello Simon,

That is correct.

Hope that helps!

Sam Stewart

RPG Manager

Fantasy Flight Games

I may still modify that cost at my table, as it feels like casters are being double charged for their spells this way.

I personally would avoid magical talents that encourage a character to rely too heavily on one or two spells. If a player invests a bunch of XP into talents that make their attack+blast+burn Fireball spell easier to cast, they are always going to be casting Fireball. That's just me though.

Just now, Simon Retold said:

Also, I stand corrected.

I may still modify that cost at my table, as it feels like casters are being double charged for their spells this way.

Talents and Magical Impliments will help mitigate these difficulty increases. However, I'm not a fan of being "tied to a Staff/Wand" like Harry Potter magic either. But, Spellbooks, Rings, and Amulets are common place for mages.

1 minute ago, ApocalypseZero said:

Talents and Magical Impliments will help mitigate these difficulty increases. However, I'm not a fan of being "tied to a Staff/Wand" like Harry Potter magic either. But, Spellbooks, Rings, and Amulets are common place for mages.

I think of it more like Dresden magic. Harry can still cast a big-boom without his tools, but he's not much for control without the implement to help him channel.

A bit different from Potterverse, where those who lose their wands are generally useless.

2 minutes ago, ApocalypseZero said:

Talents and Magical Impliments will help mitigate these difficulty increases. However, I'm not a fan of being "tied to a Staff/Wand" like Harry Potter magic either. But, Spellbooks, Rings, and Amulets are common place for mages.

What do you think of including “Runes” as an attachments system for Implements, with “Enchantments” as attachment mods?

5 minutes ago, ApocalypseZero said:

Talents and Magical Impliments will help mitigate these difficulty increases. However, I'm not a fan of being "tied to a Staff/Wand" like Harry Potter magic either. But, Spellbooks, Rings, and Amulets are common place for mages.

How about a talent that increases base damage of the attack spell? Something like:

Improved Attack Spell (real clever, I know)

Tier: 1

Activation: Passive

Ranked: Yes

Increase the base damage of your Attack spell by 1 per rank of this talent, to a maximum of +5. This increase to damage does not stack with other effects that increase the base damage of the Attack spell, such as magical implements.

This removes the reliance on implements in a game if you don't want to force casters to be Harry Potter wizards and still remain relevant in damage.

7 minutes ago, Simon Retold said:

Also, I stand corrected.

I may still modify that cost at my table, as it feels like casters are being double charged for their spells this way.

Maybe a ranked talent, or chain of unranked ta to reduce advantages needed to trigger additional effects?

Practiced Caster - Tier 3 - Ranked - Reduce the cost of activating any additional effect on a spell by 1, to a minimum of 1.

11 minutes ago, Simon Retold said:

Also, I stand corrected.

I may still modify that cost at my table, as it feels like casters are being double charged for their spells this way.

I'm confused. Magic spells in the CRB don't have 'upgrades' they have additional effects which are purchased by increasing the difficulty, not purchased with advantages. Am I missing something, or was this from a play test version?

1 minute ago, Doughnut said:

I'm confused. Magic spells in the CRB don't have 'upgrades' they have additional effects which are purchased by increasing the difficulty, not purchased with advantages. Am I missing something, or was this from a play test version?

I don't have my book in front of me, but I think they are saying it is like weapon qualities. Once you upgrade your spell, you still need to pay advantages to activate the additional effects. I honestly have no idea whether this is supported by the text in the book.

5 minutes ago, Doctor Xerox said:

I think of it more like Dresden magic. Harry can still cast a big-boom without his tools, but he's not much for control without the implement to help him channel.

A bit different from Potterverse, where those who lose their wands are generally useless.

I related to something that both I know and is a bit more mainstream/popular. I don't know Dresden. But, as you stated, yes. The Magic would be more random.

5 minutes ago, Simon Retold said:

What do you think of including “Runes” as an attachments system for Implements, with “Enchantments” as attachment mods?

I already have workings for Runes. I'm thinking of something akin to Dwarven Runes from Warhammer and Dragon Age and also possible Rune Magic from Rifts/Palladium. That'd be a big swing from one end to the other. Runes for Magical Items, Enchanting for non-magical items might be a big distinction.

4 minutes ago, OgreBane99 said:

How about a talent that increases base damage of the attack spell? Something like:

Improved Attack Spell (real clever, I know)

Tier: 1

Activation: Passive

Ranked: Yes

Increase the base damage of your Attack spell by 1 per rank of this talent, to a maximum of +5. This increase to damage does not stack with other effects that increase the base damage of the Attack spell, such as magical implements.

This removes the reliance on implements in a game if you don't want to force casters to be Harry Potter wizards and still remain relevant in damage.

A Talent that effectively is a Magical Impliment would be easily doable. However, depending on the Magic Level of your Setting, that makes certain Talents like these either super powerful to virtually needed. But, like I said before, using what they already gave you is a big plus in my book.

2 minutes ago, TheSapient said:

I don't have my book in front of me, but I think they are saying it is like weapon qualities. Once you upgrade your spell, you still need to pay advantages to activate the additional effects. I honestly have no idea whether this is supported by the text in the book.

Rules Question:
In the new Genesys RPG, do magic casters pay an Advantage cost to activate additional effects they’ve already purchased for a spell with a difficulty increase to the spell? (e.g. If a character purchases the Blast, Fire, and Range upgrades for an attack spell, making the spell Daunting difficulty, must they then also pay Advantages to activate Burn and Blast?)

Just now, ApocalypseZero said:

Rules Question:
In the new Genesys RPG, do magic casters pay an Advantage cost to activate additional effects they’ve already purchased for a spell with a difficulty increase to the spell? (e.g. If a character purchases the Blast, Fire, and Range upgrades for an attack spell, making the spell Daunting difficulty, must they then also pay Advantages to activate Burn and Blast?)

Hello Simon,

That is correct.

Hope that helps!

Sam Stewart

RPG Manager

Fantasy Flight Games

Answer to Simon earlier in thread...

Yes, I know. I'm trying to explain it.

8 minutes ago, TheSapient said:

Maybe a ranked talent, or chain of unranked ta to reduce advantages needed to trigger additional effects?

Practiced Caster - Tier 3 - Ranked - Reduce the cost of activating any additional effect on a spell by 1, to a minimum of 1.

This is probably much too powerful for 3rd Tier, even unranked. Just one rank almost doubles the amount of additional effects you can activate, allowing bigger effects that cost 3 advantage for only 1 as well is insanely powerful. Also, I can say from star wars experience that anything similar to auto-fire should cost a minimum of 2 advantage.

2 minutes ago, ApocalypseZero said:

I related to something that both I know and is a bit more mainstream/popular. I don't know Dresden. But, as you stated, yes. The Magic would be more random.

Ah, well I highly recommend you check it out :).

2 minutes ago, Doctor Xerox said:

This is probably much too powerful for 3rd Tier, even unranked. Just one rank almost doubles the amount of additional effects you can activate, allowing bigger effects that cost 3 advantage for only 1 as well is insanely powerful. Also, I can say from star wars experience that anything similar to auto-fire should cost a minimum of 2 advantage.

Ah, well I highly recommend you check it out :).

I don't disagree. But I also phrased it badly. It would be a total of 1 advantage that could be applied to a spell quality. But yeah, I don't think I like it no matter how I try to rephrase it. I'm not crazy about casters having to increase the difficulty of casting AND having to pay to activate additional effects though.

Just now, TheSapient said:

I don't disagree. But I also phrased it badly. It would be a total of 1 advantage that could be applied to a spell quality. But yeah, I don't think I like it no matter how I try to rephrase it. I'm not crazy about casters having to increase the difficulty of casting AND having to pay to activate additional effects though.

I see. I think you wouldn't have to limit it to qualities, as that's mostly what people will want to spend advantage on anyway. How about:

Magical Adept
Tier: 3
Ranked: Yes
Choose a Magic Action. Add 1 advantage to the results of any check to perform that action. You may not choose the same Magic Action with additional ranks of this talent.

I think you could also specify it must be a successful check to get the benefit and make it a 2nd tier talent.

5 minutes ago, Doctor Xerox said:

I see. I think you wouldn't have to limit it to qualities, as that's mostly what people will want to spend advantage on anyway. How about:

Magical Adept
Tier: 3
Ranked: Yes
Choose a Magic Action. Add 1 advantage to the results of any check to perform that action. You may not choose the same Magic Action with additional ranks of this talent.

I think you could also specify it must be a successful check to get the benefit and make it a 2nd tier talent.

Would that apply after cancelling out threat? If not, it could lead to the odd situation where you have advantage and threat. If not, the third sentence is awkward.

25 minutes ago, TheSapient said:

Would that apply after cancelling out threat? If not, it could lead to the odd situation where you have advantage and threat. If not, the third sentence is awkward.

Its as if you rolled one more advantage in your results, it can still be cancelled out by threat.

Yeah, I couldn't remember how to properly phrase what I meant in the last sentence. I meant "Each time you take this talent, you must choose a different Magic Action to apply it to."

5 hours ago, Simon Retold said:

That may be the case, and if so I wish it was more clear. However, since the book does not directly state that, I’ll wait for a developer ruling on it. Besides, that feature would only make them “stupid overpowered“ once we start adding talents that take away the difficulty mods of spell effects. The difficulty of spellcasting is it’s balancing factor. Any and all reduction in difficulty should be considered very carefully before being implemented.

I'm willing to wager you're going to be mildly disappointed. The entire tone of the Genesys rule book is that it's a toolkit for your game. I expect this to run much more similarly to Fate, in that we'll get guidance of "you could do it this way, but also that way" (see, e.g., Sam Stewart's description of how Blast works in Star Wars). I don't think this is a game / community that's going to care a lot about final developer rulings.

8 minutes ago, CitizenKeen said:

I'm willing to wager you're going to be mildly disappointed. The entire tone of the Genesys rule book is that it's a toolkit for your game. I expect this to run much more similarly to Fate, in that we'll get guidance of "you could do it this way, but also that way" (see, e.g., Sam Stewart's description of how Blast works in Star Wars). I don't think this is a game / community that's going to care a lot about final developer rulings.

I guess you missed this. *chuckles*

1 hour ago, Simon Retold said:

Also, I stand corrected.

Quote

Rules Question:
In the new Genesys RPG, do magic casters pay an Advantage cost to activate additional effects they’ve already purchased for a spell with a difficulty increase to the spell? (e.g. If a character purchases the Blast, Fire, and Range upgrades for an attack spell, making the spell Daunting difficulty, must they then also pay Advantages to activate Burn and Blast?)

Hello Simon,

That is correct.

Hope that helps!

Sam Stewart

RPG Manager

Fantasy Flight Games

I may still modify that cost at my table, as it feels like casters are being double charged for their spells this way.

4 hours ago, ApocalypseZero said:

Talents and Magical Impliments will help mitigate these difficulty increases. However, I'm not a fan of being "tied to a Staff/Wand" like Harry Potter magic either. But, Spellbooks, Rings, and Amulets are common place for mages.

I've been playing with some other Implements (already posted them in another thread, but I'll post them here too) to get away from Staff/Wand. I used Implements to do "Blood Magic" instead of making it at Talent, but I'll probably retire it as I like the talents more. Still including it as an alternative option for people.

DAGGER

Enchanted daggers have one purpose; allowing their wielder to harness the magical energies of blood. All magic traditions are rooted in blood sacrifice and all know the power that results from such sacrifices. Enchanted daggers are ornamental, often with precious metals or gems inlaid in their hilts, and cannot be used in normal combat, but they do make all spells cast through them deadly.

When the user casts a spell using a dagger, instead of suffering strain, they may instead suffer two wounds, adding 3 Advantage to the final result. In addition, attack spell cast by the user increase their base damage by four.

RODS

Both Arcane and Divine spellcasters wield rods, though their traditions are desperate to say the least. Arcane casters who use rods often skew towards the occult or destructive. Meanwhile, Divine casters that favor rods to punish the wicked or protect allies.

Depending on the magical skill used, rods augment a casters ability in different ways. When a character with the Arcana skill makes or finds a rod, you, the GM, determines one of the two following effects. When the rod is used to cast an Arcane spell, adding the Blast or Close Combat effect, but not both simultaneously, does not increase the spell’s difficulty,. Alternatively, when the rod is used to cast the Curse spell, they remove one difficulty from any effect they add to a spell.

In addition, an attack spell cast by the user increase their base damage by three. When a character with the Divine skill makes or finds a rod, you, the GM, determines one of the two following effects. When the rod is used to cast an Divine spell, adding the Blast effect does not increase the spell’s difficulty. Alternatively, when the rod is used to cast the Barrier spell, they remove one difficulty from any effect they add to a spell.

TOME

Magical tomes provide Spellcasters with a variety of magical lore and information at the wave of a hand. These hefty books respond to the gentlest touch, their pages flipping open to the exact incantation their wielders need in order to cast more powerful spells.

Magical tomes augment the user’s ability to add additional effects to their spells, though at the expense of the overall damage the spell does. When the user casts a spell, they may instead of adding any additional Success they roll beyond those needed to hit as damage, may instead count them as 2 Advantages . In addition, attack spells cast by the user increase their base damage by two.

TOTEM

Magical totems of wood or bone are favored by Shamans, Druids, and other Primal Spellcasters. These may be carved to resemble natural spirits, animals, or plants, or hung with beads, feathers, bones teeth, and other natural materials.

Totems augment the elemental powers Primal casters. When a character makes or obtains a totem, you, the GM, determines one effect Fire, Ice, Impact, or Lighting. The totem allows the user to reduce the number Advantage needed to activate that effect by one to a minimum of one.

4 hours ago, Simon Retold said:

I guess you missed this. *chuckles*

I wasn't referring to that particular question. I was referring to a culture of adjudication.

On 12/5/2017 at 11:59 AM, TheSapient said:

I personally would avoid magical talents that encourage a character to rely too heavily on one or two spells. If a player invests a bunch of XP into talents that make their attack+blast+burn Fireball spell easier to cast, they are always going to be casting Fireball. That's just me though.

I said that, but I am wondering if there is a good way to allow someone to become good at just one base spell at the expense of not being able to cast others well. The goal being to allow someone not magic focused to still take a singular magical ability. For example, a knight who can heal. Or a space marine who can create a barrier.