One of the ideas I keep coming back to is separating rebels/resistance and imperials/new order from one another into distinct factions. It would restrict problematic interaction between some ships/cards, and open up design space.

Heck, I don’t see why they couldn’t have prequel era ships using this model. Make the Republic and Seperatists each be their own factions. Then there would be 7 factions in total (Republic, Seperatist, empire, rebels, Resistance, new order, and Scum). It could make the game very interesting.

16 minutes ago, Jarz said:

One of the ideas I keep coming back to is separating rebels/resistance and imperials/new order from one another into distinct factions. It would restrict problematic interaction between some ships/cards, and open up design space.

Heck, I don’t see why they couldn’t have prequel era ships using this model. Make the Republic and Seperatists each be their own factions. Then there would be 7 factions in total (Republic, Seperatist, empire, rebels, Resistance, new order, and Scum). It could make the game very interesting.

They've definitely left that option open for themselves in the future, with the Frst Order and Resistance pilot cards having unique symbols on them, and now an upgrade card being printed with Resistance Only on it. I think depending on what other new stuff we see come out of TLJ and the next film, it may eventually happen.

Prequel ships; yeah, considering the role the Republic and Separatists play, new factions would certainly be easier to implement than adding to existing factions. And with the prequel era ships featuring in Battlefront 2 the chances have only increased that we'll see them eventually as well.

They should not model X-Wing on Warhammer. They've done better than Warhammer because they are not modeled after them. Games Workshop's player base in general doesn't appreciate the way they release unbalanced codexes and constantly gouge players.

I for one really hope that it is. My 6 year has been playing with me for a year and asked for her first pieces for Christmas! I am looking forward to years of quality time with her. Plus my three year old always comes to the table and rolls the dice for us, so hoping he likes it too!

While we play a slightly simplified version (no upgrade cards), she is pretty good. Since we have introduced the rocks, she has never hit one! Dad on the other hand....

Well no matter what happens to the new content, I have my ships and I will play at home. Another 5 years seems more than likely but beyond that... who knows.

well in my opinion, FFG, Like GamesWorkshop with warhammer, has made some serious errors with Xwing.

1. every wave has a new mechanic. THIS IS NOT NEEDED. the game would be better if all ships adhered to the basic rules of the game without needing goofy maneuvers, bullseye targeting, or whatever else they are brewing. the game is getting so thick its hard to find new players that want to play because of all the complex rules and the 3 faqs required for play.

2. THERE ARE WAY TO MANY STARWARS GAMES... you have armada, xwing, imperial assault, Destiny, Legion, the force awakens beginner game, Edge of empire, force and destiny, age of rebellion, the card game, the rollplaying game........ seriously. plus theres what a board game too or did I list it already, I don't even know. but in my area we used to have about 7-8 people playing xwing consistently every week at 2 different stores, now nothing. everyone is playing destiny. no xwing. honeslty its pissing me off. cause I have a huge collection devoted to xwing. I may trim that collection down a bit I think.

3. FFG uses a crap distributer. one of my stores has a hard time getting product on release date, due to FFG's distribution. I personally don't know what the details are on that but the guy at the store I hang out at says they have a hard time getting the product on time, the other store that does get their products on time has also complained about ffg's distributer as well. like I said I don't know details on that.

4. constant nerfing with new rulesets or faq. this issue goes along with #1. because there are so many mechanics added with new sets. there are complete and utter rewrites of cards. and every new set breaks the game in some way or another. this is aggravating. i cant wait for the resistance bomber to come out. i have a triple punisher build i want to try with proton bombs. honestly things like that bomb launcher should not be made. the minefield mapper is another ****** card, i placed 12 proximity mines, clusters and connor nets around my opponent who deployed in a corner of the map. yea, the look on his face was epic. things like these and loads of other things just break a balanced game.

what bothers me the most about this is that its not the fact that the nerfs are made, its that the nerfs were needed in the first place. im sorry but if I was on the developing team for ffg and I saw the Jumpmaster come out, I would have red flagged the ship right there. I mean seriously. and even after the nerfs I found the ship was still better than most large ships of similar caliber. nerfing cards in destiny.... also caused an uproar.... also if you are going to change the face of a card or its text or anything else on it, be prepaired to provide reprints for players that need them. it is not fair to have to buy a new set just to get a reprint.

well im sure i could come up with more that people will pick apart on me, this is just my opinion. and its been irritating me for a while now.

1 hour ago, FTS Gecko said:

They've definitely left that option open for themselves in the future, with the Frst Order and Resistance pilot cards having unique symbols on them, and now an upgrade card being printed with Resistance Only on it. I think depending on what other new stuff we see come out of TLJ and the next film, it may eventually happen.

Prequel ships; yeah, considering the role the Republic and Separatists play, new factions would certainly be easier to implement than adding to existing factions. And with the prequel era ships featuring in Battlefront 2 the chances have only increased that we'll see them eventually as well.

i actually like that idea, i have those factions separated in my collections just to make them easier to find, but it would make a lot of sense to just have them as their own factions

13 hours ago, SlaveofChrist said:

Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean...

...does this help?

i have those ^_^, i used to love that RPG

22 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

...that said. the future of the game definitely doesn't lie in single expansions. Campaign sets, alternative game formats, different ways of using the ships we already have, now that will keep the game going.

There does need to be a renewed focus on the Original Trilogy era ships, definitely. Seeing the humble TIE Fighter, T-65 X-Wing, Y-Wing, A-Wing, B-Wing, Interceptor, Bomber etc is key for the creating and maintaining appeal among the casual audience and non-gaming Star Wars fans.

Once I build our local community a little more I will be pushing for themed game nights, like "first 5 expansions only" or "original trilogy ships only with any upgrades". There are lots of ways to keep things fresh. I flew a thematic Luke and Han list last Thursday to good success and I flew some A and B wings against a TIE swarm.

27 minutes ago, CushionRide said:

well in my opinion, FFG, Like GamesWorkshop with warhammer, has made some serious errors with Xwing.

Indeed. This isn't unfair either. There is no game system I can think of where I can't think "I wish they hadn't done that" about something fairly fundamental.

• The 'new gimmick;.....I actually don't mind so much. The 'core rules' are simple and there's only so many tunes you can play before you need to add something, whether it was the 'bullseye' arc, reload, or the boost action (added in Wave 2 with the Millenium Falcon). the nature of the game is such that you only need to know the rules for it if you plan on including it in your games. I've never had trouble introducing new players, but that's because you start with the Core set and get them used to TIE fighters and X-wings and then introduce the latest weird stuff that FFG have pulled out of the collective buttocks of Star Wars Galaxies' back catalogue.
• Stock distributors are a big thing. FFG got a free pass in the early waves because no-one anticipated just how big 'a thing' the game was going to be, but they do need to keep on top of stock better. I don't mind if something isn't on the shelves, but I should not have a problem getting 'An X-wing' for a game called X-wing if I'm prepared to order online from the manufacturer themselves.
• Balance - well, it's swings and roundabouts. Yes, FFG has now crossed the rubicon and said they are prepared to flat-out change the text of cards. Which is an issue. On the one hand, it's good, because they do produce unbalanced stuff. This is not a personal slight at FFG; GW has produced more unbalanced stuff than I'd care to think about, and Wizkids broke the balance of their own flightpath game over their knee the moment they released the Borg. On the other hand, it's bad because the point of their games is that you don't need an 'army book' or equivalent - all the rules you need are on the unit or upgrade cards....and if the unit/upgrade cards no longer say what they used to, that leaves a sour taste.
  • Honestly I think this is one area where GW has gotten it right with Age of Sigmar; the 'warscroll' (unit card) does not list a price for the unit on it, which is listed separately.
  • You only need the unit 'price' when making your army list up initially, so not having it on the card doesn't affect gameplay, but you can errata the prices of units up and down in response to meta shifts, perceived loopholes and just general balancing and/or knocking the pot to avoid a meta ossifying without changing anything else.
  • Nothing can be broken in and of itself. The Jumpmaster was broken because of its dial and upgrade bar and pilots and points cost. If you had paid through the nose for Dengar and Punishing One, it would never have been an issue.
• The fact that X-wing is essentially a 'house of cards' - whilst the expansive nature makes it easy to get into, and easy to add 'gimmicks' to, it means that a fundamental change would either require extensive (and expensive) material support or would generate a lot of ill feeling.
  • Take, as an example, one of @ficklegreendice's common comments that Armada and Imperial Assault's multiple dice systems (which supports the difference between highly accurate attacks, and inaccurate but highly damaging attacks) would be nice for X-wing, and would, for example, give the designers a nice tool to address the power of ordnance and cannons without making them an undodgeable number of red dice. However, adding a fundamental core mechanic would add an unspoken obligation to update the umpty-ump rules cards and pilot cards which now need to refer to it.

ive said this before in other threads, but the sheer fact its starwars will probably keep it from lasting 5+ years.

Why? Design limitations. People will still play this game for many years but it will become more of a fancy boardgame rather than a tabletop miniatures game, i.e. something you play with your group of friends maybe once a month max.

But due to the fact that they cant just "make up" a ship, its background, and various new weapon types since it HAS to conform to starwars (and the mouse), eventually they will run out of stuff to add. Once that happens they may try to keep it alive by having releases of the new ships in new starwars movies but that would end up being 1-3 ships yearly....thats pretty sparse lol.

28 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

But due to the fact that they cant just "make up" a ship

Uh huh...

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2014/12/19/here-comes-the-imperial-raider/

Thing is, depending on how flexible they get, the TV series and films are adding things faster than they're released.

Just off the top of my head, taking only stuff seen in post-mouse, games, films and TV in the last couple of years:

• TIE Reaper
• Mining Guild TIE
• Krennic's Shuttle
• TIE Defender Elite
• Partisan Ships
• Phoenix Squadron A-wings and X-wings
• Blue Squadron X-wings
• Resistance Transport
• Inferno Squadron TIE

Now, making all of these ships actually a worthwhile addition to the game other than just we have a new ship with ever so slightly different numbers is more of a challenge, and increasingly so. But that's not the same as there not being material there. Lucasfilm and Disney are both past masters at merchandising stuff and they know that putting in at least 2-3 eye-catching new ships they can flog toys of in each new film or series is a given, because far bigger commercial undertakings than FFG's will be based on them....

And, yes, if they need to make up a ship, they have clearly been given the go-ahead to do so. I'm quite chuffed that it actually got picked up and put into 'other' star wars, as well.

Again, I think a very easy way to keep things fresh and simple is to release new pilots and upgrades to already existing ships, as they did with the aces packs and GTH. Some title cards to X, B, Punisher, etc would be most appreciated and helpful.

1 hour ago, CushionRide said:

2. THERE ARE WAY TO MANY STARWARS GAMES... you have armada, xwing, imperial assault, Destiny, Legion, the force awakens beginner game, Edge of empire, force and destiny, age of rebellion, the card game, the rollplaying game........ seriously. plus theres what a board game too or did I list it already, I don't even know. but in my area we used to have about 7-8 people playing xwing consistently every week at 2 different stores, now nothing. everyone is playing destiny. no xwing. honeslty its pissing me off. cause I have a huge collection devoted to xwing. I may trim that collection down a bit I think.

Agreed. They constantly cannibalize their own playerbase. It's not just X-Wing, either.

8 hours ago, Captain Lackwit said:

With all due respect...

Stop pretending Prequel fans don't matter. Stop it. I enjoy all three eras, but I'm part of the era that grew up with the Prequels. Not as my introduction to Star Wars mind you, I was excited to see Episode I when I was 7. But I'd seen all the films prior, I already had strong attachments to established characters, I'd played loads of games that were set in the OT- really the only era at the time. In my lifetime I've been alive for the beginning of every new era but the post-ROTJ one kicked off by Zahn in 1991. I've witnessed each one since.

And I can firmly tell you...

That Prequel fans are many. But they don't talk about it, because they can't. They can't openly say how much they love the Clones or how much more interesting they think the Clone Wars are than the Galactic Civil War. They can't, because people clutching to the OT like it's all that could ever define Star Wars and themselves, can't seem to see that their opinions are not the only ones that matter, and haven't been since 1999.

I hate the prequels, but I would love to have the prequel ships in the game. It's Star Wars, and I am not required to match the movies to play the game. I like a lot of the aesthetics of the CW era ships, and would love to have them on a table someday. I thinbk it would be smartest to have them divided in Republic and CiS, with some pilots tosses in that cross factions/era timelines. It makes a lot of sense in terms of game design because:

3 hours ago, Jarz said:

One of the ideas I keep coming back to is separating rebels/resistance and imperials/new order from one another into distinct factions. It would restrict problematic interaction between some ships/cards, and open up design space.

Heck, I don’t see why they couldn’t have prequel era ships using this model. Make the Republic and Seperatists each be their own factions. Then there would be 7 factions in total (Republic, Seperatist, empire, rebels, Resistance, new order, and Scum). It could make the game very interesting.

For example, I'm pretty exited that this week I can started putting together First Order only based lists with the TIE/FO, /sf, Silencer, and Upsilon shuttle.

Also, I think Scum could easily be divided in half: Pirates/Criminals vs. Mercenary/Bounty Hunters. Then, you have the Scum who make a living illegally vs. the Villainy who make a living callously.

1 hour ago, Vineheart01 said:

ive said this before in other threads, but the sheer fact its starwars will probably keep it from lasting 5+ years.

Why? Design limitations. People will still play this game for many years but it will become more of a fancy boardgame rather than a tabletop miniatures game, i.e. something you play with your group of friends maybe once a month max.

But due to the fact that they cant just "make up" a ship, its background, and various new weapon types since it HAS to conform to starwars (and the mouse), eventually they will run out of stuff to add. Once that happens they may try to keep it alive by having releases of the new ships in new starwars movies but that would end up being 1-3 ships yearly....thats pretty sparse lol.

I play the game about once a month. You know what that means for me? There are ships I haven't even tried yet. . .which means I'd be plenty happy to see them spend some time on a Campaign Box or more Epic-style releases.

As far as running out of stuff, you have got to be kidding. Almost NOTHING from the prequels exists yet, and 3 decades of EU content has only barely been touched for the bounty hunter's ships. There are literally hundreds of ships yet to go. . .and with the Mouse making about 1 movie a year, plus the cartoons, they can't even keep up:

48 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Thing is, depending on how flexible they get, the TV series and films are adding things faster than they're released.

Just off the top of my head, taking only stuff seen in post-mouse, games, films and TV in the last couple of years:

• TIE Reaper
• Mining Guild TIE
• Krennic's Shuttle
• TIE Defender Elite
• Partisan Ships
• Phoenix Squadron A-wings and X-wings
• Blue Squadron X-wings
• Resistance Transport
• Inferno Squadron TIE

Now, making all of these ships actually a worthwhile addition to the game other than just we have a new ship with ever so slightly different numbers is more of a challenge, and increasingly so. But that's not the same as there not being material there. Lucasfilm and Disney are both past masters at merchandising stuff and they know that putting in at least 2-3 eye-catching new ships they can flog toys of in each new film or series is a given, because far bigger commercial undertakings than FFG's will be based on them....

And, yes, if they need to make up a ship, they have clearly been given the go-ahead to do so. I'm quite chuffed that it actually got picked up and put into 'other' star wars, as well.

And not on the list is ROGUE ONE. The titular ship of the best SW movie ever made. The fact that Rogue One was barely mined for ideas flabbergasts me.

Personally, I'm not that interested to see each ship break amazing new ground. Each ship release adds a new model, new characters, and new narrative options; that can be enough. IMHO, if this game does want to last for a couple of decades, it has to remember that it is Star Wars first, and a miniatures game second. I will buy ships for new pilots and new paints jobs only, because I play this game to immerse myself into the Star Wars universe, running missions, creating campaigns, and reliving the battles from the movies. In the long run, if the Republic Y-Wing is pretty much the same as the Rebel Y-Wing, I'm still going to buy that ship because I want to play Star Wars.

12 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

I hate the prequels, but I would love to have the prequel ships in the game. It's Star Wars, and I am not required to match the movies to play the game. I like a lot of the aesthetics of the CW era ships, and would love to have them on a table someday.

Indeed. I'm fairly okay with the Prequel films, but more importantly I love the ARC-170; I just think it looks awesome. I'm much bugged out that there was no generic pilot such that a 4-ship squadron was not possible...

The nice thing about miniatures (and cards) is that they will be around even after the collapse of the internet (which is what the FCC is trying to pull). Won't be any F.A.Q.s but forget it. The competitive meta is no fun.

Star Wars X-wing miniatures, sure most likely.

EA's Star Wars Battlefront 2 (or even 3), not a chance!

Even if X-Wing dies I will still play it. It's so much fun! Even if my ship token wear out and I'm forced to print new one on paper or write down my maneuver if my dials get destroyed I'll be sticking with this for a long time.

One of the new X-Wing guys that we play with mentioned playing "Catan" next week. I said "sounds fun" even though inside I was thinking "WTF are you talking about? No FREAKING WAY!"

4 hours ago, Jarz said:

One of the ideas I keep coming back to is separating rebels/resistance and imperials/new order from one another into distinct factions. It would restrict problematic interaction between some ships/cards, and open up design space.

Then they'd have to reprint Hux and Kylo.

9 minutes ago, Pooleman said:

Even if X-Wing dies I will still play it. It's so much fun! Even if my ship token wear out and I'm forced to print new one on paper or write down my maneuver if my dials get destroyed I'll be sticking with this for a long time.

One of the new X-Wing guys that we play with mentioned playing "Catan" next week. I said "sounds fun" even though inside I was thinking "WTF are you talking about? No FREAKING WAY!"

I started playing with my brother's "board game night" crew, because 3-4 of them got excited about XWM at GenCon. I have firmly stated "invite me when you play XWM (only)."

1 minute ago, Celestial Lizards said:

Then they'd have to reprint Hux and Kylo.

As if most of the cards don't need a reprint anyways. . .

While some games like Warhammer, 40k, Magic, and Warmahordes have been around for ages, an important distinction is that those companies (GW, WotC, and PP) own the rights to their own fictional worlds and intellectual property. And they can often make money from external sources off of that IP (think of all the video games or FFG boardgames that were made for the Warhammer/40k universe), and can freely explore other media and avenues of income with that IP (think of all the MtG/WH/40k novels or clothing, for instance). This is a big incentive to protect and extend such games, because doing so develops the worlds within your games.

This is quite different to Star Wars games, because game companies don't own the rights to Star Wars. So they have to contend with the extra hurdle of perpetually paying Disney/LFL for the license, and unlike GW/WotC/PP they don't have the option to make external money from their IP. At some point FFG will lose the Star Wars license, and it will be at a point FFG decides that maintaining the license is no longer financially desirable (because either sales of their Star Wars products isn't high enough or because the cost from Disney/LFL has become too expensive or Disney/LFL wants to license the rights to anther company).

You can look back at the history of West End Games, Decipher, and Wizards of the Coast. They've all dabbled in Star Wars games (RPGs, Cards, Tabletops, Boardgames) and none of them had a game that lasted longer than 10 years. This doesn't mean FFG has a ticking countdown for another five years or so, but it's pretty safe to say that the chances of X-Wing being around in 20 years is zero.

On 12/3/2017 at 10:34 AM, Darth Meanie said:

I can see a lot of different possible ways to handle this, because I agree that FFG is not going to maintain 100 products in print at some point.

1. Create a core set of ships (say, the original triology) that stay in print forever. Update the packaging as needed to reprint upgraded cards with new text and include cards that probably should have been with the original ship (like AT for Squints). Make the ship a repaint, to entice old players, and make the old paint jobs "classic." Non-core ships exist for a couple of years, then go OOP.

2. Purge. FFG figures out which ships are selling, and lets the rest go OOP. Problematic ships die (JM5K and Phantom) and can be replaced with new ideas and models that don't warp the meta.

3. Rotate. Ships go in and out of print, but at any given moment only part of the catalog is available on the market.

4. Reduce Duplication. Ace Packs get folded into the original blister release which will then contain both sets of content. The ace pack is discontinued.

A second edition is something I really hope sees light at some point, though it will be a difficult path for FFG to walk since they need to try and not piss off their customer base from walking away, so hopefully it will feature some conversation pack or the like how descent did it. I don't even care if they make better miniatures so long as the original ones are allowed to be used without any issue and thus not invalidating what people have already bought. I personally hope they also add some campaign system like how Armada got one.

One neat idea they could do to deal with rotation, lack of list diversity, or power creep would maybe be to do 'narrative' events that affect what ships are out of cycle for that tournament year or the like, something like people 'destroying an Imperial depot' or 'Rebel supply lines being cut'. Probably just do that event and depending on which faction wins it depends on what is unavailable or limited for that year. It at least sounds like a neat idea on paper.

38 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

The nice thing about miniatures (and cards) is that they will be around even after the collapse of the internet (which is what the FCC is trying to pull).

Shame that all of my schoolwork is online...

And so is this forum!

On ‎12‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 10:54 AM, Darth Meanie said:

X-Wing: Blue Squadron expac. New pilots, new paint, new abilities.

What's Blue Squadron? Why aren't we going with Rogues or Wraiths?