Passing the agenda deck, and its effect on turn order

By cbs42, in Fallout

The rulebook says that when the last agenda card is drawn, the deck is reshuffled and passed to the RIGHT, which is different than many games that go clockwise.

The turn order does go clockwise though, and the new person with the deck is considered the first player. But play continues like normal, regarding whose turn it is and whose turn is next during this round.

I'm trying to grok this in my head and I'm having problems. Let me know if I'm thinking about this correctly:

Example
The players are A, B, and C, in clockwise order. Player A has the agenda deck. The deck runs out during player B's turn. So the deck is shuffled and passed to player C. It's still player B's turn though, so he finishes up. Player C still gets to go as well, since "during each round, each player takes 1 turn" and player C hasn't had a turn yet. So C takes his turn, then since the deck is in his possession he reveals the enemy activation card. Now the round is over. So a new round begins with the first player, which is now player C ... who just had a turn right before the enemies went.

Is that right? When the deck is passed to someone new, that player will have 2 turns in a row (with an enemy activation between them)?

Why would the deck run out in the middle of Player B's turn?

EDITED: thanks for MalcolmReynolds's clarification below.

Edited by Manchu

As for the last player now going first, that seems very logical to me. They had a disadvantage of going last each turn. In all my games the last player has felt a bit behind early, even with the first players opening the tiles to explore. The first players ahead of them just seem to get to the beginning quests first. But as the game goes on, that agenda deck empties usually a couple times depending on how many players there are so it all evens out. This is a long game with different ebbs and flows along the way.

Manchu, quests/encounters give agenda cards as rewards and you want them badly. That is how it empties during a players turn instead of the agenda deck turn.

@MalcolmReynolds I only played through a bit of a solo game and didn't come across any quests/encounters that gave me agenda cards yet - unless the thumbs up symbol in the result section of quest/encounter cards means "take an agenda card" rather than "gain influence."

EDIT: OK yes now I see in the LTP that the thumbs up icon in the result field does mean draw an agenda card.

Edited by Manchu

I posted this question on BoardGameGeek, and after 3 pages of discussion it seems like most folks there finally reached the opposite conclusion. But there are still a couple of holdouts who think that the 'double turn' effect is the correct answer.

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1894478/passing-agenda-deck-and-its-effect-turn-order

I actually don't care too much which way is correct. I just want to know for sure, so I'll probably have to email FFG support directly with the question, unless there's a chance they'll answer it here in these forums.

Edited by cbs42

I think the sentence "Whose turn it is and whose turn is next does not change." makes it pretty clear that drawing the last agenda card does not end the round.

So the question is, does the (new) First Player actually get to go first in the round after the Agenda Deck has been reshuffled?

Rules Reference p. 12: "During each round, each player takes one turn, beginning with the first player and proceeding clockwise."

Edited by Manchu

Yeah, that's wonky and had me scratching my head. Since there's that and the game ends when someone hits the Influence total, but the round doesn't finish out has me wondering how that should be played. Or do you just play the turns as normal but the enemies don't activate until you get to the new first player so on those shuffle turns the round may be a couple players take more than one turn? Hm.

So lets assume players in clockwise order A, B, C, and D, where A is currently first player.

Player B is taking her turn and, as a result of a Quest or Encounter card, she draws the final card in the Agenda Deck.

Player A reshuffles the discarded cards into the new Agenda deck and passes it counterclockwise to Player D. Player D is now the First Player.

What happens next? "Whose turn it is and whose turn is next does not change."

Player B finishes her turn, then Players C and D take their turns in order. After Player D completes his turn, he draws an Agenda card and activates enemies accordingly.

That's the end of that round. Who goes first on the next round? "During each round, each player takes one turn, beginning with the first player and proceeding clockwise."

Player D is now the first player, so goes first.

Edited by Manchu

Yes, that was my reasoning as well.

But someone on BGG pointed out that the rulebook also says, " The round will end , and the next agenda card will be drawn, before the new first player’s next turn ."

This seems to state that player D will basically not get a turn this round. When player C is done, player D will reveal the enemy activation, and then take his turn. Note that with this logic, the turn order NEVER gets altered by the passing of the agenda deck. The player order is always ABCDABCDABCDABCD... until the game ends. The only thing that changes is when the enemies take their activation.

We know that "[w] hose turn it is and whose turn is next does not change" after the Agenda Deck is reshuffled and passed counterclockwise. So that sentence cannot literally mean the round ends after the Agenda Deck is reshuffled and passed counterclockwise. I think you really have to read that sentence in context - the preceding sentence is "[p]lay continues with the next player in turn order."

So in my example above B drew the last card in the Agenda Deck. Let's change that so C draws the last card. At that point, A reshuffles the Agenda Deck and passes it to D. C completes her turn. What happens next? The rules direct us in two separate instances: "Whose turn it is and whose turn is next does not change." and "Play continues with the next player in turn order." After C complete her turn, D will take his.

Understanding that, we can decipher the next piece: "The round will end, and the next agenda card will be drawn, before the new first player’s next turn." This sentence is referring to the new first player's next turn after the current round ends.

Edited by Manchu

Yes, but "whose turn it is and whose turn is next" is also supported by the opposite interpretation. The next player to go after player C will always be player D. In other words, the passing of the agenda deck never alters the play order. It's always ABCDABCD...

For the record, I'm still inclined to agree with your interpretation (which was also my initial interpretation). But some of the fellows on BGG do make a convincing argument for the other side.

Yes, the "whose turn" clause could suggest that play order never changes (if read out of context). But even putting context aside another rule proves this is not the case: "During each round, each player takes one turn, beginning with the first player and proceeding clockwise."

Edited by Manchu