Anyone who has ideas for modeling different superpowers in Genesys, bring them here! I want to see what everyone has. Some things are easy, like how Attack can be used for heat vision, super breath, energy blasts, lightning bolts, etc, and Barrier can be used for force fields, creating walls of ice, fire, thorns, etc, but not everything is quite as obvious. Here are some of my ideas to start out:

Super Strength: Putting Brawn as your super characteristic is obviously the biggest thing here, but I could see talents like Feral Strength being important as well, and maybe a talent that allows you to lift and throw anything up to half of your Brawn without requiring an athletics check to lift it. Bigger things would probably still require an Athletics check.

Super Durability: The Toughened and Enduring talents are obvious ones for this, but I was also thinking of creating a Tier 4/5 talent that gives your body the Cortosis (or whatever the Genesys counterpart is, if there is one) quality.

Super-Speed: This one is a whole grab-bag of stuff. Obviously making Agility one of your super-characteristics is a necessity. The Free-Running and Improved Free-Running talents from the Racer Specialization in FaD would be big, as would a talent that allows you to use Agility for Brawl/Melee checks, and a talent that gives your Brawl/Melee checks the Autofire quality, a talent that allows you to make a third maneuver, and copious levels of the Dodge talent. And while minor, Swift would probably be good too.

Hulking out: Basically the Mongrel species from the Weird War setting, but instead of increasing both your Brawn and Agility, it increases your Brawn twice. If you want to turn into a Giant-Man/Atom-Smasher type character, maybe it could allow you to increase your Silhouette as well.

Shrinking: Similar to Hulking out, but instead of decreasing Intellect and Willpower to get Brawn, you decrease Brawn to get Agility, and decrease your size to Silhouette 0. The talent that allows you to use Agility for Brawl checks would be good with this as well if you want to have the Ant-Man style tiny-yet-powerful punches.

Teleporting: The Conjure spell, where instead of conjuring something else you just conjure yourself, further away.

Green Lantern Constructs: Pretty much just the Conjure spell, (or Attack and Barrier, for other situations) using Willpower as the characteristic for the “magic”. Yellow rings could use Cunning or Willpower, while Violet use Presence, and Blue could potentially be Intellect. Red would probably also be Willpower, Orange would probably be Cunning, Indigo would probably be Intellect, and I have no clue what Black would be.

Those are just the ones I can think of right now. What are your ideas?

I'm trying to work this out myself. I run a Mutants & Masterminds game that I would like to switch over to Genesys. The players in the game run mutants with not your standard abilities.

One has the ability to alter reality and does a 60' radius transform. He also has some luck/unluck abilities like he can defelect ranged attacks by having random things fall between the attacker and the target. In M&M he has to be in defensive mode to use this but Genesys has Talents that could represent this by adding either Setback Die or, with the cost of strain, an automatic Fail to the die.

I'm thinking that the default power will be a skill very much like the 3 magic skills in the game and he will use that to build his dice pool.

I'll pass more along as I work things out but I am very much in early stages of it right now

If his defense is reality-altering based, the few ranks in the Dodge talent might be a good idea. The possibility of a Despair could make for some exciting results.

One thing that Adversaries get that aren't really covered anywhere for PCs is Abilities. Certain Super Powers could easily be set up as an Ability and some that I have in my M&M game are listed as adversary abilities already (Regeneration; Ogre [Nemesis], page 147 / I know what you thnking; Telepath, page 188). The question is how much XP should these cost to gain

3 minutes ago, Johan Marek Phoenix Knight said:

If his defense is reality-altering based, the few ranks in the Dodge talent might be a good idea. The possibility of a Despair could make for some exciting results.

Absolutely, I much prefer the Narrative Dice approach over the Reflex save of M&M. Say he's creating a wall between some civilians and a villain. Easy task but there are a good number of villains in the area so it's escalated. He rolls a success with Despair, the wall is either unstable or it knocked a civilian out of the covered area as it was being created. This is exactly why I was wanting to use narrative dice system for Supers. I think it will really push the comic book drama more than "Oh I can't beat a 24 Reflex save"

2 minutes ago, Varlie said:

Absolutely, I much prefer the Narrative Dice approach over the Reflex save of M&M. Say he's creating a wall between some civilians and a villain. Easy task but there are a good number of villains in the area so it's escalated. He rolls a success with Despair, the wall is either unstable or it knocked a civilian out of the covered area as it was being created. This is exactly why I was wanting to use narrative dice system for Supers. I think it will really push the comic book drama more than "Oh I can't beat a 24 Reflex save"

That is true, though I was actually referencing how the Dodge talent turns the difficulty die into challenge die, giving your attacker the possibility of a Despair in addition to just making it harder to hit you. If they rolled a Despair, your reality-warping effects could have disastrous results for your attacker.

8 minutes ago, Varlie said:

One thing that Adversaries get that aren't really covered anywhere for PCs is Abilities. Certain Super Powers could easily be set up as an Ability and some that I have in my M&M game are listed as adversary abilities already (Regeneration; Ogre [Nemesis], page 147 / I know what you thnking; Telepath, page 188). The question is how much XP should these cost to gain

Good question. Most “abilities” transfer easily over to talents, the only question is how much xp that talent should cost. That is really all up to the GM.

That's a good call on Dodge. That would represent the luck portion of his abilities. Thanks

I disagree about Super Speed being Agility based most of the things super speed entails actually doesnt fall under Agility. Agility fits things like Accuracy and coordination (the acrobat and the Archer) less so pure running and fast punching both fit the "athletic" side of things and instead fit "brawn". Doing so would solve a lot of the stuff where you need to use Agility instead of brawn for stuff and would mean the super speederster didnt all of a sudden have super driving, piloting and archery skills that he wouldnt need, but would still have better "endurance" for running a race which typically uses Athletics.

3 hours ago, tunewalker said:

I disagree about Super Speed being Agility based most of the things super speed entails actually doesnt fall under Agility. Agility fits things like Accuracy and coordination (the acrobat and the Archer) less so pure running and fast punching both fit the "athletic" side of things and instead fit "brawn". Doing so would solve a lot of the stuff where you need to use Agility instead of brawn for stuff and would mean the super speederster didnt all of a sudden have super driving, piloting and archery skills that he wouldnt need, but would still have better "endurance" for running a race which typically uses Athletics.

That has just as much problems as Agility though. It makes sense for speedsters to be good at Stealth, because they are moving to fast for people to see them. With Brawn though, speedsters aren’t generally really strong. They can hit hard because of f=ma, but they aren’t usually all too tough, and definitely can’t do the heavy lifting that super Brawn would entail.

Also, the Ataru Striker in FaD was all about speed. It was an aggressive fighting style in which you defeated your opponent as fast as possible with lightning-fast attacks. The characteristic for that fighting style? Agility. Agility has just as much to do with speed as it does hand-eye coordination.

How do you guys think a Tier 5 Supersonic punch talent would work?

Here is what I have come up with so far:

Supersonic Punch: Perform a Hard Brawl check on an opponent within Extreme Range. Spend an advantage to move one range band closer. If you succeed in the check and enter engaged range with them, add +2 damage to the hit for each range band moved this way.

9 hours ago, Johan Marek Phoenix Knight said:

That has just as much problems as Agility though. It makes sense for speedsters to be good at Stealth, because they are moving to fast for people to see them. With Brawn though, speedsters aren’t generally really strong. They can hit hard because of f=ma, but they aren’t usually all too tough, and definitely can’t do the heavy lifting that super Brawn would entail.

Also, the Ataru Striker in FaD was all about speed. It was an aggressive fighting style in which you defeated your opponent as fast as possible with lightning-fast attacks. The characteristic for that fighting style? Agility. Agility has just as much to do with speed as it does hand-eye coordination.

Super Brawn doesnt always entail super lifting. Lets look at the skills. As you said they can hit Hard that is an aspect of brawn (Brawn is stated not to just be how physically strong you are but how well you use that as well). Their speed actually gives them away with stealth some times as it affects the air around them when they whoosh by. They may not be seen but they are given away. Athletics is the skill used for basically any running feat 100 meter dash up to a marathon. As far as toughness, MOST of them have some form of healing factor as their bodies motabilize faster as well which resilience can be used to simulate also the ability to vibrate their molecules would allow them to endure harsh weather by heating their own bodies. Basically no there is no skill in Brawn that doesnt technically match what a super speed individual is capable of.

While Ataru striker used that remember they werent simply "super fast" ataru has to do with acrobatic flips through the air. These are based around coordination as I said agility is for the "archer" and the "ACROBAT" Ataru isnt about raw speed its about acrobatics a very big difference.

10 hours ago, Johan Marek Phoenix Knight said:

That has just as much problems as Agility though. It makes sense for speedsters to be good at Stealth, because they are moving to fast for people to see them. With Brawn though, speedsters aren’t generally really strong. They can hit hard because of f=ma, but they aren’t usually all too tough, and definitely can’t do the heavy lifting that super Brawn would entail.

Also, the Ataru Striker in FaD was all about speed. It was an aggressive fighting style in which you defeated your opponent as fast as possible with lightning-fast attacks. The characteristic for that fighting style? Agility. Agility has just as much to do with speed as it does hand-eye coordination.

Double post cus things get dumb.

2 hours ago, tunewalker said:

Super Brawn doesnt always entail super lifting. Lets look at the skills. As you said they can hit Hard that is an aspect of brawn (Brawn is stated not to just be how physically strong you are but how well you use that as well). Their speed actually gives them away with stealth some times as it affects the air around them when they whoosh by. They may not be seen but they are given away. Athletics is the skill used for basically any running feat 100 meter dash up to a marathon. As far as toughness, MOST of them have some form of healing factor as their bodies motabilize faster as well which resilience can be used to simulate also the ability to vibrate their molecules would allow them to endure harsh weather by heating their own bodies. Basically no there is no skill in Brawn that doesnt technically match what a super speed individual is capable of.

While Ataru striker used that remember they werent simply "super fast" ataru has to do with acrobatic flips through the air. These are based around coordination as I said agility is for the "archer" and the "ACROBAT" Ataru isnt about raw speed its about acrobatics a very big difference.

From the description for Ataru Striker:

“If a conflict is necessary, it is better to resolve it quickly ,”

“The combination of these edges and the rapid attacks that characterize Ataru martial arts can force a combat to a very quick resolution.”

“Every motion is designed to inflict a flurry of rapid and overpowering attacks”

It doesn’t really say much about being acrobatic, but it does say a lot about the importance of winning the battle as quick as possible with “rapid attacks”. The Saber Swarm talent is a perfect example of how this works.

Also, the Racer tree, which has the Freerunning and Improved Freerunning talents, which are very speedster-like talents, is a specialization completely centered around Agility. Also, I disagree with you on speedsters not being great drivers, shooters, etc. The Driving/Piloting skills use Agility because the better your reflexes are, the faster you are able to react while driving, which is why Anakin was the only human able to podrace. And if everyone else is moving in slow motion, it is much easier to shoot them, because still targets are easier to hit than moving ones. And speedsters use their speed to be stealthy and do things without being noticed all the time.

However, this arguing is really pointless. The whole point of Genesys is that it is a framework for us to create our own games. My intention with giving these examples isn’t to prove you wrong, it is to explain why I feel the way I do about the situation. If you feel like speedsters should use Brawn, then in your game speedsters can use Brawn. I feel that it makes more sense for speedsters to use Agility, so I would have them use Agility. I don’t think either of us is going to convince the other in this situation, so I recommend we just agree to disagree on this one, and we can each do what we want with our own games.

Edit: I just realized this entire conversation has been a Lightning Bruiser vs Fragile Speedster discussion.

Because of how Narrative Genesys is with its dice system we should look to other more narrative focused games to see how they simulate powers from a narrative sense... I would say look at Marvel Heroic Roleplaying (Cortex Plus/Prime) and Fate games like Wearing the Cape, Daring Comics, and Atomic Robo and not so much look at games that are more inherently crunchy like Mutants and Masterminds.

This is where scaling could help. Super-Heroes/Villains are handled like startships/vehicles in SW by the rules if confronted by rivals and minions. You need to deal 10 point of damage to deal a super-hero one point of damage (and still soak has to be overcome), on the other hand a super hero deals ten times the damage to a "mortal" and gets +50 on the critical results table (and blast wouldn't affect more than one hero).

You could even cut it in half (5 times against rivals and 10 times against minions) or implement different scaling levels depending on the power level of the hero.

After all, the only challenge of a super hero is a super villain. Those street level brawlers are actually nothing else than a narrative distraction (unless something manages to weaken a super-hero like Kryptonite Superman).

I wan to be clear on what Ataru actually is. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Form_IV/Legends

"Form IV , also known as Ataru , was the fourth form of lightsaber combat invented by the Jedi Order . An acrobatic combat style, Ataru could be used to defend against incoming projectiles, ^[4] and was best suited for open spaces." current canon.

Old Canon

"An aggressive style, Form IV was fast-paced and effective against single opponents, though weaker in prolonged combat and confined spaces. Also, it was not recommended for use against opponents wielding blasters . Ataru was characterized by Force -assisted acrobatics, such as somersaults and leaping strikes, both for attack and defense."

So to be clear yes Ataru was first and foremost achieved through "super acrobatics" and no more "super speed" than any other jedi form, since jedi are always moving at super speeds.

I think the secret to Superpowers are to make them skills similar to the magic skills, but they have an initial cost of 20 XP, or make them innate abilities they get as part of their archetype.

Then you have Power Stunts which can be activated through the use of Advantages. Special things can be added by increasing the difficulty to give the check Active or Passive qualities, plus you can have additional talents that add extra effects.

EXAMPLE: Super Speed

Make a Easy (<D>) Athletics check as an incidental action. Success Allows you an additional free Maneuver in the same round the check was made.

Spend <AD><AD> To gain an additional Maneuver.

Spend <AD><AD> to use your Athletics skill instead of Brawl or Melee when making a non-ranged attack in the same round that the check was made.

Talents could allow other things to be done such as Flurry of Fists, Phasing, etc which add to what can be done with the power.

Just a few random thoughts.

3 hours ago, GM Hooly said:

I think the secret to Superpowers are to make them skills similar to the magic skills, but they have an initial cost of 20 XP, or make them innate abilities they get as part of their archetype.

Then you have Power Stunts which can be activated through the use of Advantages. Special things can be added by increasing the difficulty to give the check Active or Passive qualities, plus you can have additional talents that add extra effects.

I worry that would slow down the game, as players start rolling multiple checks per turn. Not to mention the possible imbalance issues of rolling at least one additional easy check for free every turn: Don't need any of those powers? Heal 4 strain with that advantage! Pass boost dice to the next PC to act! Whatever you want. Then do it all again when you punch that minion group!

Your thoughts did inspire a few talent ideas for super-speed though

Super Speed
Tier: 2
Activation: Passive
Prerequisite: Agility is your Super-Characteristic
Ranked: No
The maximum amount of maneuvers you can take each turn is increased by 1. (You still must pay 2 strain for each maneuver beyond the first.)

Improved Super Speed
Tier: 3
Activation: Passive
Ranked: No
You gain 1 additional free maneuver per turn. This maneuver cannot exceed your maximum limit for maneuvers per turn.

Supreme Super Speed
Tier: 5
Activation: Passive
Ranked: No
Whenever you make a Brawl or Melee combat check, you add one automatic advantage to the result for each Move maneuver you have taken this turn. Additionally, whenever you use 3 or more Move maneuvers in a turn, you upgrade the difficulty once for all combat checks that target you until the beginning of your next turn.

I'm not quite satisfied with that last one, but I like the first two. The prerequisite for super-speed could be dropped or changed. I could also see giving the initial talent to each little chain of super power talents a tag like Super Talent and limit the number of super talents your characters could take.

21 hours ago, Stacie_GmrGrl said:

Because of how Narrative Genesys is with its dice system we should look to other more narrative focused games to see how they simulate powers from a narrative sense... I would say look at Marvel Heroic Roleplaying (Cortex Plus/Prime) and Fate games like Wearing the Cape, Daring Comics, and Atomic Robo and not so much look at games that are more inherently crunchy like Mutants and Masterminds.

That MHR reference makes me wonder how much we could get away with turning powers into ranked Talents, with, say, a Tier 1 Talent representing a Minor ability and a Tier 5 representing a Godlike one. Obviously, we couldn't use the MHR powers as written, as they're way too broad for Talents, but I think fluffier powers have some promise.

2 hours ago, rsdockery said:

That MHR reference makes me wonder how much we could get away with turning powers into ranked Talents, with, say, a Tier 1 Talent representing a Minor ability and a Tier 5 representing a Godlike one. Obviously, we couldn't use the MHR powers as written, as they're way too broad for Talents, but I think fluffier powers have some promise.

In a way the spell magic system in Genesys is very similar to how the powers in MHR kind of work. At least to me.

I have been laboring over a supers mod since i finished reading the last page of the Genesys Core. My first idea on power conversations was to creat talents like I have seen suggested in this thread. But because of how talents are purchased, im leaning more towards treating powers like magic spells. I think talents could still be created to augment powers, and I thing the creation of Specialization talent trees like Star Wars did with different types of Jedi abilities would work well....Like a a super speedster specialization, a tanker specialization, a fire blaster specialization etc. Then a player could start with a base primary power, like a blaster for instance, then choose a specialization that augments and hones his powers. It would seem in the core book that if you have pips in arcana, you can cast any spell that is classified as an arcana spell. I am creating a list of base powers that have a point cost associated with each of them. The idea is that a player would create his super using the core book with 150 xp and 2 super characteristics, to put into characteristic increases, skill increases, and talents. Then...have a separate point pool to build powers based on the level of the super hero. This means a GM could scale super heroes from say,...most of the characters in the GIFTED tv show (reletively low with only a few powers) to someone like Superman, (a long list of powers), or Magneto (a single godlike power). The balance I am trying to achieve is also equally as important as not getting to bogged down in a million dice checks that bog down the action. If a super can fly, or run real fast, he should just be able to do that just like we dont require a normal character to roll a check when he walks acrossed a room. I will post my progress here for you guys to critique.

On 11/12/2017 at 8:36 PM, Drawdan said:

The balance I am trying to achieve is also equally as important as not getting to bogged down in a million dice checks that bog down the action. If a super can fly, or run real fast, he should just be able to do that just like we dont require a normal character to roll a check when he walks acrossed a room. I will post my progress here for you guys to critique.

THIS!

I'm a long time Mutans and Masterminds GM and I'm trying to switch my group to Genesys.

My 2 cents: powers shouldn't be like magic that is not reliable; in superheroes comics and movies, their powers are always available and reliable (with some exceptions of course); moreover I'm thinking about describe powers with talents and use them with standard skills, a couple of examples:

- Fire, Ice, Laser, Whatever Blast effect: Ranged (light or heavy depends if one or two hands and his damage bonus).

- Teleport: Coordination (to be able to slip between material universe bounds)

- Superspeed: Athletics (for running) or Coordination (for control)

- Telekinesis: Discipline (for mental telekinesis)

- Create object (like Green Lanter energy construct): Discipline or maybe Cool, Resilience when you have to keep your construct stay against attack or damage

Sure, it's a long and hard work to convert a complete set of powers, but in my own opinion, most use of powers should be narrative and call for a skill check only if player try something that has interesting consequences.