On 12/22/2017 at 8:59 PM, saethone said:

I'm trying to do everything within the confines of the existing spells. It's taking a bit of creativity but its working. Here's what I have so far:

1) Introducing a -D modifier - this cannot reduce a spell below an Easy check.

2) Illusions: Illusions have no effect on reality. Those who see an illusion will however act as if it is real so long as they believe it. The first time a character sees an Illusion and each time it witnesses something that would shake his faith in the illusion (such as being stabbed by an illusory sword or watching someone walk through an illusory wall) the character may make a Perception or Vigilance check (the difficulty is set by the number of uncancelled Successes on the check up to 5. Advantage can be spent to upgrade the difficulty.) If the character passes the check, he is aware of the illusion, and sees it as shimmering and translucent image. Any sounds it makes are distant and echoy.

AUGMENT ADDITIONAL EFFECTS
EFFECTS					DIFFICULTY MOD
Invisibility: Targets affected by the spell turn invisible and are granted 3 levels of Concealment					+DD
Flight: Targets affected by the spell gain the ability to fly and hover (GCR 100).					+DD
Shapechange: You can change the target's physical form into that of another type creature that you have seen of the same silhouette as them. If the creature has the same basic body structure as them, they can choose to reshape their equipment to match their new form. Otherwise, the equipment melds into their new form and is unusable. Your target can move any appendages the creature has but gain none of the other benefits. For example, they could move a dragon's wings but not fly, They could see with eyes but not its darkvision. This may be added multiple times, each time after the first increases or decreases the silhouette by 1. You cannot replicate an individual's features in this way - they are their own individual in each form.					+D
Water Breathing : targets affected by this spell can breathe underwater.					+D
Skinwalker : When using shapechange, you can replicate an individual's features. Boost or Setback should be applied based on the caster's knowledge of the subject they are imitating.					+DD
Illusion: The effects of Shapechange and Skinwalker are an Illusion.					-D

New feedback after some consideration. I would rename Invisibility as Camouflage, granting the same effects, if only to allow for more flexibility in describing what the spell does. I do still want to find a way to make Invisibility available to Arcana casters, however... I was intending to add a new talent that grants a character access to one of the Magic skills, but specifies that they may only cast one spell using that skill per encounter. This seems like it would be perfect for those characters who care about such things...

I think the Illusion effect for Skinwalker is inappropriate as a -D. Functionally, both the illusion and the standard effect do the same exact thing--make the character look like someone else. I suppose the illusion can be breached through certain sorts of interaction, but I'm not sure it's enough of a difference to essentially make the ability free.

I am sold on adding this tech to Conjure to change your summons to illusions!

Thinking about adding the following to Barrier:

+DD Spell Shield : Opponents who target with a spell at least one character affected by this spell upgrade the difficulty of their Magic check twice.

I was thinking of making it DDD, but felt that you should be able to combine it with Reflection.

I had considered making it a number of upgrades equal to ranks in Knowledge, but that seemed like it would be much too strong.

52 minutes ago, yeti1069 said:

I would rename Invisibility as Camouflage, granting the same effects, if only to allow for more flexibility in describing what the spell does.

coming directly from D&D:

Quote

Illusion spells deceive the senses or minds of others. They cause people to see things that are not there, not see things that are there, hear phantom noises, or remember things that never happened.

Illusions come in five types: figments, glamours, patterns, phantasms, and shadows.

i would rename to Deception

Quote

• A figment spell creates a false sensation. Those who perceive the figment perceive the same thing, not their own slightly different versions of the figment. Figments cannot make something seem to be something else. They cannot cause damage to objects or creatures, support weight, provide nutrition, illuminate darkness, or provide protection from the elements.
• A glamour spell changes a subject's sensory qualities, making it look, feel, taste, smell, or sound like something else, or even seem to disappear.
• Like a figment, a pattern spell creates an image that others can see, but a pattern also affects the minds of those who see it or are caught in it. All patterns are mind-affecting spells.
• A phantasm spell creates a mental image that usually only the caster and the subject (or subjects) of the spell can perceive. This impression is totally in the minds of the subjects. It is a personalized mental impression. (It's all in their heads and not a fake picture or something that they actually see.) Third parties viewing or studying the scene don't notice the phantasm at all. All phantasms are mind-affecting spells.
• A shadow spell creates something that is partially real (quasi-real). The caster weaves it from extradimensional energies. Such illusions can have real effects. If a creature takes damage from a shadow illusion, that damage is real.

and add effects based on the four categories, but put shadow under conjure.

would there be need to invent a disbelieve mechanic or saving throw ?

For Illusion, maybe instead of -D, it reads +BB (boosts)?

37 minutes ago, Terefang said:

coming directly from D&D:

i would rename to Deception

and add effects based on the four categories, but put shadow under conjure.

would there be need to invent a disbelieve mechanic or saving throw ?

I don't think we need that level of complexity. I'm playing around with having Illusion create more summoned objects or creatures equal to ranks in Knowledge, instead of 1 at a time, with the same clause to spend Advantage to summon more (again, ranks in Knowledge), while allowing extra Success to be spent to affect an additional sense. Characters who interact with the illusions are allowed a check to disbelieve of Perception vs. Magic skill.

For my own setting, I'm treating illusions as slightly easier conjurations, since what you're mechanically doing with an illusion is conjuring the appearance of something, rather than the actual thing. If anyone attempts to interact physically with an illusion, they will be able to tell its just an image (which might not be a huge consolation while you're falling through the illusion of a bridge). Minor illusory effects (lights, sounds, small scale tricks) can fall under Utility magic.

If an illusion is capable of attacking, or causing harm somehow, it would be treated as either a true Conjuration, or as an Attack spell.

On 12/23/2017 at 11:03 PM, yeti1069 said:

New feedback after some consideration. I would rename Invisibility as Camouflage, granting the same effects, if only to allow for more flexibility in describing what the spell does. I do still want to find a way to make Invisibility available to Arcana casters, however... I was intending to add a new talent that grants a character access to one of the Magic skills, but specifies that they may only cast one spell using that skill per encounter. This seems like it would be perfect for those characters who care about such things...

I think the Illusion effect for Skinwalker is inappropriate as a -D. Functionally, both the illusion and the standard effect do the same exact thing--make the character look like someone else. I suppose the illusion can be breached through certain sorts of interaction, but I'm not sure it's enough of a difference to essentially make the ability free.

I am sold on adding this tech to Conjure to change your summons to illusions!

Yeah that is part of why I made skin walker +DD, using it with illusion still makes it +D.

I used some of what others have already written as a baseline to write my own version of Enchantment. How does this look?

Enchantment
Concentration: Yes
Skills: Arcana, Primal
Select a single creature or minion group within Short range and make an Easy (d) Magic check. If successful, the target is filled with a specific emotion or sensation of your choice, such as anger, attraction, calm, disgust, fear, friendliness, or peace. All social checks the target makes are either upgraded or downgraded once to reflect this altered mental state.
After the spell ends, the target is aware that they were feeling or behaving unusally.
Additional Effects
+d Additional Target : May select additional targets equal to your ranks in Knowledge. May spend aa to select additional targets equal to your ranks in Knowledge for each aa spent.
+d Easy Feeling : After the spell's effects end, the target no longer is suspicious of their emotional state or actions.
+dd Suggestion : Your target takes a suggested action or maneuver associated with the emotion you have instilled in them, such as attacking someone in anger, hitting on someone they are attracted to, calmy taking a rest, disgusted avoiding someone or something, running away from something in fear, offering assistance to someone they feel friendly toward, or attempting a peaceful resolution to a conflict. You may offer a suggestion each round as part of maintaining concentration on the spell.
+dd Forgetfulness : The target has no recollection of what transpired while under the effects of the spell.
+ddd Charm : The target feels particularly friendly to the caster, or a single target the caster designates, doing anything they would normally do for a dear friend.
+ddd Dominate : The target obeys all commands of the caster, even those contrary to its nature. The target may attempt a Discipline vs Discipline check as an action on their turn in order to break free of this mental control, receiving a number of b on their check if your commands have been agaisnt their nature. This cannot be combined with the Additional Target effect.

I'm not sure Charm and Suggestion are different enough to warrant having the two separate effects. It could mean reversing their difficulty, where Charm provides the friendly feeling, but you have little control over what they do: "Help me out" could result in a wide variety of actual actions. While Suggestion could be a bit more specific in what you're trying to get them to do?

I was thinking Dominate should be dddd, but I wanted it to be able to combine with Easy Feeling. It would be nice to allow it to combine with Forgetfulness also, but maybe that's something that should only be doable with an implement or talent reducing difficulty for this?

I feel like this does a fair job of not trampling on the other spells in what it is doing and trying to do. The upgrade/downgrade on social skills is a little bit like what Augment and Curse do, but a) more specific, b) more vague, c) doesn't affect combat rolls, or rolls critical to survival (like resisting spells or hazards), and d) is on the more narrative end of the spectrum as far as spells are concerned, which seems appropriate.

How would you do attack spells that linger, eg "Flaming Sphere" or "Stinking Cloud" etc from D&D?

Could you add an effect of persistent +D? And an option to be able to move the spell of +D?

Hmm, maybe say persistent +D or +DD makes it a concentration spell, and use a maneuver to move it? Otherwise it becomes more cost efficient on strain than just casting a new spell each round

I'm not sure there is any way to balance simply making an Attack spell into an ongoing effect. For one, it would be unclear how it would interact with characters an enemies. For another, it would be far too efficient, both saving on strain and the risks of casting (and failing, or generating threat/despair) another spell.

I agree that there should be some sort of persistent effects like this, but I'm not sure how to go about introducing them without causing some major problems.

Flaming Sphere-type effects don't seem like they need to be a part of the game, but something like Stinking Cloud (really, persistent crowd control) do seem like they should have some representation.

I would probably start by making it an additional effect in Conjure that stats that it modifies what you can summon, creating a cloud of vapor in place of a creature or item, and it fills a space to Engaged range. Additional Summon could be used to extend the range, or it could be built into the casting itself, or it could be a separate difficulty...

Actually, now that I'm thinking about it...there may be enough tweaking available on this type of effect to make it into its own spell.

Obfuscation

Concentration: Yes

Skills: Primal

Easy (D): Create a thick fog, mist or smoke that blankets engaged range. All characters in the fog are treated as having two levels of concealment, imposing two setback dice on checks they make, and on Perception checks and attacks made against from outside the fog. Could possibly make a globe of darkness as well, which would have the benefit of allowing characters with Dark Vision to see.

+D Range: You may create the fog at Short range. It still fills Engaged range. You may use this multiple times.

+D Extend: The fog now fills an area out to Short range. You may use this multiple times.

+D Thicken: The fog becomes more dense, imposing an additional setback on checks. You may spend ^ ^ to increase this effect.

+DD Hinder: The fog impedes movement, and is treated as difficult terrain. OR this could give the fog Ensnare 2.

+DD Burn: The fog sears the lungs, causing Strain equal to ranks in Knowledge at the start of each character's turn.

+DDD Noxious: The fog becomes a poisonous vapor. Characters who being their turn within the fog must succeed on a Resilience check of difficulty equal to your ranks in Knowledge. Failure causes...? (thinking Strain damage, or an ongoing effect). May spend 3 threat to...do something ? Immobilized seems like too much. Staggered until they escape the fog seems reasonable.

Burn is a persistent effect, as gm if a player wanted to make a flaming barrier of some sort then I would ask them to trigger Burn but not on an actual target.

”You launch an onslaught of fire into the hallway, the fire lingers long after you finish casting. Anyone coming after you will have to brave the flames”

Burn can also be a poison cloud, add it to Ice (Ensnare) and it could be poisonous vines.

I've been thinking about "area" spells recently as well, including those that linger. Maybe a "size" modifier on attack that is different from Blast? Not sure how exactly though.

35 minutes ago, yeti1069 said:

I'm not sure there is any way to balance simply making an Attack spell into an ongoing effect. For one, it would be unclear how it would interact with characters an enemies. For another, it would be far too efficient, both saving on strain and the risks of casting (and failing, or generating threat/despair) another spell.

I agree that there should be some sort of persistent effects like this, but I'm not sure how to go about introducing them without causing some major problems.

Flaming Sphere-type effects don't seem like they need to be a part of the game, but something like Stinking Cloud (really, persistent crowd control) do seem like they should have some representation.

I would probably start by making it an additional effect in Conjure that stats that it modifies what you can summon, creating a cloud of vapor in place of a creature or item, and it fills a space to Engaged range. Additional Summon could be used to extend the range, or it could be built into the casting itself, or it could be a separate difficulty...

Actually, now that I'm thinking about it...there may be enough tweaking available on this type of effect to make it into its own spell.

Obfuscation

Concentration: Yes

Skills: Primal

Easy (D): Create a thick fog, mist or smoke that blankets engaged range. All characters in the fog are treated as having two levels of concealment, imposing two setback dice on checks they make, and on Perception checks and attacks made against from outside the fog. Could possibly make a globe of darkness as well, which would have the benefit of allowing characters with Dark Vision to see.

+D Range: You may create the fog at Short range. It still fills Engaged range. You may use this multiple times.

+D Extend: The fog now fills an area out to Short range. You may use this multiple times.

+D Thicken: The fog becomes more dense, imposing an additional setback on checks. You may spend ^ ^ to increase this effect.

+DD Hinder: The fog impedes movement, and is treated as difficult terrain. OR this could give the fog Ensnare 2.

+DDD Noxious: The fog becomes a poisonous vapor. Characters who being their turn within the fog must succeed on a Resilience check of difficulty equal to your ranks in Knowledge. Failure causes...? (thinking Strain damage, or an ongoing effect). May spend 3 threat to...do something ? Immobilized seems like too much. Staggered until they escape the fog seems reasonable.

I actually made something a couple of weeks ago, coincidentally also named Obfuscation

Obfuscation

Skills: Arcana, Divine, Primal

The obfuscation spell causes the air around the target to be surrounded by a smoke-like shroud making it harder to see their form. Whilst it won’t help the target on their stealth checks, it makes it harder to see the targets actual form. The affected area is stationary, so as long as the target remains in the area, they will be affected.

Concentration: Yes

When casting the Obfuscation spell, the character chooses one target (may also be an object) at short or engaged range (may include themself). The default difficult is Easy ( purple X1 ). If the check is successful, the spell makes it more difficult to hit the target with an attack. This essentially adds one to both melee and ranged defense. However, it also makes it equally difficult for the target to attack others.

Obfuscation Additional Effects

Area: Increase the size of the affected area to include all those that are engaged with the target. This may be added multiple times, increasing the area by one range band each time.

• purple X1

Range: Increase the range of the spell by one range band. This may be added multiple times, increasing the range by one range band each time.

• purple X1

Smoke/fog: The affected area becomes encased in heavy fog or smoke, increasing both the melee and ranged defense by one. This may be added multiple times, increasing the defense by one each time.

• purple X1

Fire: The obfuscated area gains the Burn quality with a rating equal to your character’s ranks in Knowledge.

• purple X1

Poisonous: If a target is affected by the obfuscated area, the target must make a Hard ( purple X3 ) Resilience check or suffer wounds equal to the character’s ranks in Knowledge, and strain equal to the character’s ranks in Knowledge. This counts as a poison.

• purple X2

Lightning: The affected area gains the Stun quality with a rating equal to the character’s ranks in Knowledge.

• purple X1

Holy/Unholy (Divine only): When targets in the area take damage that the GM determines are the antithesis of the character’s faith or deity (such as a priest of a god of life attacking an undead zombie), each success deals +2 damage instead of +1.

• purple X1

Manipulative (Arcana only): The character may spend a manoeuvre to move the obfuscated area one range band in any direction.

• purple X1

Sleep (Primal Only): The area gains the Stun quality, and deals strain equal to the character’s ranks in Knowledge

• purple X1

One Way: The shrouded area is transparent from outside, and opaque from inside, or vice versa

• purple X2

I would do several things differently now, but this is what I made literally day one of reading the book.

I could see adding Burn or Ensnare to the cloud. I'm just leery about adding much by way of damage to this, because that steps on the toes of Attack, or adding Defense, since that steps on the toes of Augment. For the latter, it's kind of reasonable since it affects everyone within the cloud equally, but I personally think the spells should remain as distinct as possible.

Also, I typed this as Primal only, because I would like to try and offer some specialized options for each of the disciplines a bit. In Genesys core, Arcana ends up ahead, and with some of the additional spells I've seen kicked around, Primal falls kind of behind. Creating a fog seems very much a natural, primal sort of magic.

I'm not sure what effects I would want to add to the Noxious FX. I want something significant enough that it's meaningful, but not so dangerous as to make this the go-to spell ability for everyone.

I think Ensnare ends up being kind of weird with an ongoing effect like this. Yes, when you cast the spell, anyone inside may get Ensnared (although the rules for Ensnare specify you would have to spend 2 Advantage per affected target , which limits the use, but also feels kind of weird here. On the one hand, it breaks the symmetry, which makes the spell more useful--you blanket an area and Ensnare one or two enemies while leaving your team free to move--but on the other, it strikes me as being unflavorful that you have pockets of the spell that act differently than the rest of it. I suppose the spell could be flavored as Entangling vines or some such, but that only works for some visions of how its working. I like the idea that it becomes difficult terrain, kind of mimicking Solid Fog from D&D/Pathfinder.

Burn of 2-4 damage is almost always going to be pointless, since it doesn't bypass Soak. Also, increasing the damage feels like it just makes this spell much better than Attack once you start dealing with more than one opponent. The solution that I edited into my version deals Strain (not strain damage, so it bypasses soak) as an ongoing effect.

@Richardbuxton

Returning to Necromancy for a moment, I was giving it some thought...

Necromancy

Concentration: Yes
Skills: Arcane, Divine
This is magic for raising the dead as unholy servants. Select one corpse of Silhouette 1 or less within Short range. The default difficult is Easy (d). That corpse rises as a zombie minion under your control until the end of the encounter. You may spend a maneuver on your turn to direct any undead raised with this spell.
+d Additional Minions: Increase the number of minions animated by ranks in Knowledge. May spend aa to increase the number of corpses animated by ranks in Knowledge. Should this be ranks in Knowledge, or Advantage to increase number of targets? I would like to allow for the undead army, but maybe that should be done narratively. Otherwise, there might need to be a Duration effect added that probably costs DD or DDD that removes the need to concentrate: undead raised are permanent.
+d Enhance: Corpses animated gain +1 to Brawn, which also increases their Soak and Wounds. May spend aaa or x to reduce their crit rating to a. Should this be reduce crit rating BY one, or TO 1? Wondering if, instead of an improvement to Critical rating, they instead gain a number of Boost dice on all checks they make, or if that should be a separate improvement?
+d Range: May animate corpses at long range.
+dd Haste: Animated corpses can always perform a second maneuver during their turn without spending strain (they may still only perform two maneuvers a turn).
+dd Armored (Arcana Only): Animated corpses gain melee and ranged defense equal to your ranks in Knowledge. This seems like it should maybe be gain Melee and Range Defense 1. Maye spend Advantage (or AA) to increase the defense granted by 1.
+dd Vigor (Divine Only): Animated corpses heal a number of wounds at the start of their turn equal to your ranks in Knowledge.
+ddd Undead Champion: May animate a corpse of up to Silhouette 2 as a rivl. May increase the silhouette by 1 for aa. By itself, this doesn't actually do much of anything unless I have it apply a zombie template to a raised corpse. Not sure what that would look like yet. This should also specify that it can be used to raise a rival.

This is what I would be using for a basic zombie minionL

Zombie (Minion)
Brawn 2, Agility 2, Intellect 1, Cunning 2, Willpower 1, Presence 1
Wound Threshold 4, Soak 3, Defense 0 | 0
Skills: Brawl, Vigilance, Athletics
Abilities: Implacable: Exceeding a zombie's wound threshold has no effect: they do not become incapacitated or die, and they do not suffer a critical injury. The only way to kill a zombie is to score a critical hit.
Clawing hands (Brawl; Damage 3; Critical 4; Range [Engaged]; Ensnare 1)

This is a cool Spell

Additional: With your Implacable Zombies I would keep it at 1 + 1 per 2 Advantage

Enhance: reduce Crit by 1, or add a Boost.

Defence: yeah start at 1, +1 at a cost of 2 Advantage.

Champion: either have a bunch of stat boosts or create a specific new zombie for it.

2 minutes ago, Richardbuxton said:

This is a cool Spell

Additional: With your Implacable Zombies I would keep it at 1 + 1 per 2 Advantage

Enhance: reduce Crit by 1, or add a Boost.

Defence: yeah start at 1, +1 at a cost of 2 Advantage.

Champion: either have a bunch of stat boosts or create a specific new zombie for it.

Thanks for the feedback!

For Champion, I kind of want a zombie template I can apply to an existing monster, so I can grab a bestiary or something, and quickly just apply the template, using the existing creature's special abilities.

I'd like one of the effects to work off of ranks in Knowledge, and I'm thinking that should be Additional, losing the ability to increase the number for Advantage spent. That caps the number you can raise at 5 (if you invest heavily), but means you probably get a minion group 3 or 4 deep.

I would probably add text to Champion prohibiting using Additional with it.

I do kind of want to add an effect that makes the raised undead permanent, requiring no concentration, but maybe that should be on an implement of some kind, or a narrative effect (undead created within extreme range of an unholy altar persist without requiring concentration from the caster so long as they remain within range of the altar).

Artefact sounds good, a crown or something that keeps undead summoned just like the Druidic circlet.

Champion Template could be:

+1/0/-1/0/+1/-1

Implacable: Exceeding a zombie's wound threshold has no effect: they do not become incapacitated or die, and they do not suffer a critical injury. The only way to kill a zombie is to score a critical hit.

Undead: creature no longer needs to eat, sleep or breath.

Clawing Hands: Increase Unarmed Damage by 2, reduce unarmed Crit by 2, Ensnare 1

On 12/22/2017 at 12:42 AM, NonekiTheHutt said:

I dont know how many people have played Mage the Assension by White Wolf but they had a very open ended magic system. If you had the "sphere" of the magic type you could do the spell or rote as the called it. I believe that this is like this system. A magic user can build his own magical flare in his spells. The 2 strain cost and the difficulty increase to add effects limits the power of the spells and makes it so if a person tries to be over powered they risk failure

In all my RPG travels over the past many ... ahem.. time units, Mage the Ascension was my favorite magic system and upon reflection and with a little research, it looks to be actually easy to bolt that magic system and paradigm onto Genesys. I'm not at all trying to replicate the setting, just the very basic mechanics so I can apply them elsewhere - lots of elsewhere.