So, the word from the top was, "something entirely new and different". Any ideas?

Plastic dice? Deployment decks? New artifacts? Unit upgrade kits (new cards and banners)? Dungeon expansion? Siege weapons? New assortments of previously released material?

I'm hoping for a more serious attitude {because it WILL then fit "FFG's vision" } but backwards-compatibility with previous units.

I'm also hoping to get something out of this whole Battles of Wasteros crap. Maybe borrow 2-3 good rules that add complexity without adding game time.

I particularly liked the Morale swing victory condition and I believe it must be implemented in BL too. The one and only problem I have with BL right now is the victory condition of kill X number of units disregarding how many units the opponent has and what quality his troops are.

Also I liked the disengagement token rule. It will be fiddly though and if it adds a lot of game time then I can easily do without.

I absolutely didn't like the removal of sections. This essentially destroys the game's advantage that sets it apart from all others. It also destroys the Hand management aspect of the game. I have problems with the sections though... I cannot grasp why there are hexes that count as either section. It isn't realistic and cannot be explained. I'd prefer if the lines that divided the sections where following hexlines and not cut hexes in half.

What I'm really hoping for though is a new expansion policy. I hated Dragons and Creatures. Too little content, too expensive, no substantial gameplay changes. I want to see complete expansions {on par with "FFG's vision" } like other FFG games' expansions. A medium box {or even coffin-sized box why not?} with COMPLETE anything. Complete new army, complete siege rules, complete creature pack, complete Lore deck etc. not with promises for future add-ons to old concepts. Enough with the add-ons. I want to see new rules, new races, new Lore cards etc.

In other words I want to see "new _________ {add anything here}" and not "additional __________ {add anything here}".

FragMaster said:

I agree, NEW is good. But it must improve, not replace, existing material.

I really like the divided hexes. Placing units there for flexibility on future turns is great. They provide a lot of opportunity for strategic play.

I think everyone would like to see new Races sold as complete Armies .If FFG is serious about evolving BL into a High Fantasy lotsa magic gane I hope they develop a Game World to support that concept.

OD

FragMaster said:

Clearly you can see that a goblin band standing directly on the magic red line is capable of playing twice as loud thereby influencing twice as many troops than if he stood a single step to his left or right..... A rule that I shamelessly exploit at every opportunity.

Nematode said:

So you missed the bit in the Goblin Marauders' rule book stating that the hexes on the 1st row where the section divides is where the Band stashes their amps?

toddrew said:

As well as painting a use Fireball here style bulls-eye on them...

Chris

I want to see:

1. more races
2. campaign system along the lines of the one for Battleground: Fantasy Warfare
3. completed deployment system, preferably CtA, but other approaches are welcome, IMO

I expect to see;

1. points based deployment system
2. darker theme

tkostek said:

If we don't see this, I think we should Artscow it!

Old Dwarf said:

I'm hoping for Elves! Although I'm still holding on for catapults as well. Elves definitely say "fantasy" as well as "magic/lore".

tkostek said:

I kind of like the origional lighter theme. I say play the War of the Ring or Arkham Horrer for a darker theme. FF has enough darker stuff.

Hi there,

I think adding (rather than replacing) the current victory track would lead to some very exciting games as you'd have to really time your assualts with Red units, too soon and you had 3 points to your opponents swing, too late and you loose its ability to control the game I think it would be great and it doesn't even need an expansion to implement...

I'm half interested in the sieges rules just because really. I will skip over the rest as this is meant to be a positive post.

That Mr Borg is still involved in BL at all is a big positive
The siege rules might be easy to port over too
FFG are still working on something for BL

So yeah small kernals of hope out there.

Chris

netaaron said:

I like the whimsical tone, but a lot of my "serious gamer" friends felt it was too silly. So while it's not a problem for me directly, it has hurt my ability to find opponents among my gamer friends, and that's an indirect problem.

I don't mind a tone that's more adult, but I find Warhammer stuff to be excessively dark and gothic. WH stuff ends up feeling adolescent to me. I think that stuff is marketed to the teenage feeling of alienation.

In any case, my preferences don't matter all that much. FFG has a pretty consistent vision across their games. They've identified a market niche, and they're focused on it. I'll be very surprised if the whimsy stays in the game. We'll see how well they manage the transition.

Objectives

I really hope we get something along these lines. One of the limitations of most of the C&C games, IMO, is the victory conditions. It's nice to have some flags on the board, and I hope we see more along these lines.

Back in the day, DoW sort of hinted at something along these lines. One of their posts talked about why they put Epic out fairly early. Among other things, Epic facilitates sub-missions or something like that. It's burried in one of the posts from the end of the first year of BL's life. Pretty vague, but pretty enticing.

I remember that old thread to, and I think it referred Heroes, too, because the way they are treated, quests are really a basic sub-mission - your Hero is interested in evolving as much as your army in winning the Scenario. For certain aspects, it resemble a lot the system of "you can win even if you lose" stance of narrative, campaign heavy game like Mordheim. It can be made more complex too with a bit of inventiveness - there is this mad, and yet primitive idea I was tinkering with about making a minidungeon with Drakon tiles and using treasure/traps tokens as blips.

Speaking of campaign systems: I think that a point-deployment system is unlikely; there is already the established Call to Arms. If I remember well, Coltsfan said that the plan on long term for making a fully developed campaign system of Battlelore include CtA: perhaps you give experience and skills to a Wing of choice, treating it as the retinue of a noble.

About the darker theme: "lite" identity, even if it seems to dissuade some boring... ehm, serious gamers is part of the game... Me myself loving it, I think I may like a "Dark Humoured" variant - think of Army of Darkness: Undead are dark AND fun, for example... And then, don't forget there are other products in FFG line with humour in it, like Red November - well, that could be a good crossover!

Sadly Battlelore as we know it basically is dead - hard to have support when there is none - no base set, basically (ruling out Heroes, of course - which was a 2+ year delay from DoW and FFG). No really new expansions (come on..rehash of creatures more or less released plus adding one and charging $30 for them is not really "new"). And of course, no old expansions will be re-released either. Hard to support a product line when there is NO REAL SUPPORT.

FFG just bought Battlelore so they can continue another "competing" product line and has led us and others along for the ride. And there hasn't even been a FFG person in this forum since the get go to really answer any questions...Sure there is Richard but he is NOT FFG. And they can't even adbide by even what he wants to do with the product line....very very sad.

Thankfully I haven't bought the new "creatures" packs yet..nor will I. Hopefully others will as well.

Cab

Yep, practically dead. It's unfeasible for business, making expansions when they no longer produce the base game.

But, I think I'm pretty content with the current state of the game. BL basically have the basic things needed for a fantasy wargame. Troops, magic, deployment system, heroes, monsters (and dragons)... plus 2 'good' and 'evil' race. I'm sort of glad they didn't pick elf the first time. Not that I hate elf... it's just they're everywhere.

To be honest, I was a little worried when mr. Borg announced a plethora of new races, that Battlelore was going to be another money-sink collectible game.

Sevej said:

Aye. As much as some might whine about how little ever came out for BL, I wasn't overly excited at the prospect at shelling out a pile of money if the expansions had come much faster. I'm not so sure that BL is really done yet, but I'm good with what I have if that's the case. I hope if that day ever comes, we'll get a straight message telling us that it's over.

Trump said:

What about a medium sized box for each new race? I don't understand why BL expansions should all come with a tiny box with 4-5 figures in it. New races can be created without getting the "money sink" feeling if they actually produce BL expansions like the expansions of all the other FFG games.

A big box with everything in it. Cards, minis, rules, banners etc. No need for 17 different expansions. Even Goblins or Dwarves expansions could be sold in one box instead of 2 like they did. I was annoyed with how little content BL expansions had back then when DoW announced SKirmishers/Marauders and Dwarves. That was actually a money sink. Now Dragons/Creatures continues this "tradition".

BL needs a big expansion in order to be saved or a big announcement calling it dead so that we know exactly how things are. Either way the Battle for Westeros "thing" was the biggest dissapointment I've had from FFG yet. I don't care if the game is good. I will not buy Battles of Westeros to show my frustration. The only thing that I can do. This and writing on the forums.

I'm hoping we see some new approach taken with the releases (a mix of big box, small box etc).

I would be curious to see what a really creative designer could do with a few good adventure ideas and the Call to Arms rules (and perhaps an event deck of some sort - or locations that trigger events).

I would love to see army packs, unit packs, a scenario book, small Guest Lore-Master + Hero expansions, etc etc.

I would love to see siege rules.

I would love to see campaign rules.

I don't really want to see a darker theme - I have enough other games for that and I hope FFG doesn't tie itself to the same trend of tired dark fantasy themes - keep it fresh by not overusing it I say!

I would like to see more terrain.

I would like to see the old expansions re-released.

I don't see the issue with the Uchronia - if FFG have issue with it, change it subtly.

In short, any news for BL proper is good news to me!

Cheers,

Giles.

I'm expecting the solution to the main set problem to be simply only provide the banner bearers and cardboard tokens to represent hit points [i expect like me some of you simply stack poker chips under the banner bearer to save on setup time - and painting]. By reducing the figure count FFG will be able to get the price down

Furelli

Oh, yeah... if they actually decided to make new races, I hope they'll somehow represent real world factions, like Dwarf as Scotts and Goblin as Turks. Elven Samurais & Ninjas?

I would be happy with (in descending order) race-specific deployment decks, more Lore cards (especially since word is there were supposed to be many more to start with), a few more terrain types (or even a new board to represent winter), some form of siege rules, and maybe 1 or 2 more races. And quite frankly I think just having the first two would really satisfy me, with the next two rounding out the game a bit and providing more variety, and I would be fine without the last onealthough throwing in a few more fantasy races would be nice (and while I know a lot of people are clamoring for elves, it seems as though they've been over-done; I know if FFG went with 1 new race, elves would likely sell the most, in close competition with undead, but I'd be interested in seeing something different, don't really have a preference for what).

One idea I've been bouncing around is adapting the probabilities of a hit based on color that they're doing for BoW. It seems rather interesting, although would require more sides to do (unless you're playing without Lore entirely). I'm thinking a d12, with 2 sides each for Lore, Route, Bonus Strike, and Blue Banners, 3 sides for the Greens, and only 1 for the Reds. Anyone interested in playtesting it (sadly, haven't had much time for BL for several months, and a 3yo who gets upset any time I crack out a game with minis when he can't crash them into each other doesn't help).

And of course, I'm curious as to whether at some point Richard can simply release on the web all of the miscellaneous rules, races, etc that his playtest group has been using for years...

Sevej said: Oh, yeah... if they actually decided to make new races, I hope they'll somehow represent real world factions, like Dwarf as Scotts and Goblin as Turks. Elven Samurais & Ninjas?

It sounds to me (if they actually decided to make new races) that this was viewed as one of the problems that BattleLore had, and that Samurais & Ninjas belong in games like (but not necessarily the game itself - I've little idea of the Westeros World aside from a general European Medieval setting) Battles of Westeros, while BattleLore will be home to more "high fantasy" concepts.

I would prefer it to be a paralleled affair as do you.

Sevej said:

NOOOOOOOOOooooooooo........

Elves would come from the Black Forest and pick traits from there please no samurai / ninja in a European 'campaign world setting'.

Chris

An Elf faction based on the Elfs of myth - astere, dangerous and otherworldy would be good.

• Having said all of that, a full campaign system would be good to see, especially tied in nicely with an economic system of some kind - battles for territories, territories equal some form of currency, currency can be used to hire new units, heal old units, hire lore masters, train lore masters, buy equipment for heroes etc. Battle experience counts for something - the more units survive a battle the better skilled/experienced they become and so forth... I'm sure someone could do a better job than those simple ideas.
• A totally different type of magic/lore would be interesting.
• An event deck, tied with counters or locations that could be spread on the board - some a little like the 'choose your own adventure' style of thing, some with immediate effects.
• A different collection of creatures, perhaps based on mythology or folk-lore.
• A scenario book with a runing campaign through it - some scenarios of which are highly story based and not just stand-off style engagements.

I really don't want to see the game become more fiddly - the weight and playstyle is perfect for what it is. FFGsometimes seem to have an idea that more complex and fiddly chrome laden game rules are best - I agree in some cases (War of the Ring, Doom etc), I disagree in others (Battlelore)

I really don't want to see FFG come up with what is becoming their stock-standard dark fantasy style world, more 'serious' doesn't mean better, grittier, more realistic or anything like that, and not every game needs the same feel or style.

I really don't want to see an alternate but similar product pursued at the expense of Battlelore, without it being backwards compatable, and only if it maintains the light feel and spirit of the original game.

Some extra thoughts!

Cheers,

Giles.