Theory. At the end of BFII Kylo references Iden and Del's daughter. There are at least two references to her .. odd. Not at all relevant to the story.

Iden and Del had both been to Jakku.

Luke makes a few cryptic comments to Del about the Force when they meet. Could Del be Force sensitive?

Is it possible that Rey is the daughter of Iden and Del? It makes sense that they'd hide her from the empire. It makes sense that she'd be on Jakku. It makes sense that she'd be force sensitive. It kinda also makes sense then that she's drawn to the relics from that battle at Jakku. In the SW universe, if you're a main character and not Lando, you're guaranteed to be related to someone else in the story.

What are our thoughts?

Haven't played Battlefront, but I guess it's possible.

What you have to ask though, is would Disney really connect what is such a much-asked question and major story element from their headline franchise to the story from a videogame that not everyone is going to see?

Fair point.

Is it possible that in the movies they might say that Rey's parents were Imperial defectors who were being hunted by Kylo Ren. Luke can say he met Rey's father and felt the force in him.

The intricacies of the story are however, revealed in the game.

We saw some cross-over between Rebels and TFA.

17 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

Haven't played Battlefront, but I guess it's possible.

What you have to ask though, is would Disney really connect what is such a much-asked question and major story element from their headline franchise to the story from a videogame that not everyone is going to see?

If you don't plan on playing battlefront, I'd recommend watching the last level. Its pretty easy to find on youtube. The last level takes place right before TFA. I didn't even consider this theory until the last level.

It really comes down to how important Rey's parents are to the story. If Luke isn't the father, then you could argue that her lineage is not that important. And if its not important (in Skywalker legacy scale at least), you could easily explain it in a non-movie. The only thing movie goers need to know is Rey is an orphan, and something bad happened to her parents.

On 12/2/2017 at 5:28 PM, treybert said:

It really comes down to how important Rey's parents are to the story. If Luke isn't the father, then you could argue that her lineage is not that important. And if its not important (in Skywalker legacy scale at least), you could easily explain it in a non-movie. The only thing movie goers need to know is Rey is an orphan, and something bad happened to her parents.

I have a bit of a pet theory that Rey's parents aren't important (I mean, of course they are to her. You know what I mean), but we're supposed to think they are.

Del and Iden would be a good example of this.

On 12/1/2017 at 11:06 PM, FTS Gecko said:

Haven't played Battlefront, but I guess it's possible.

What you have to ask though, is would Disney really connect what is such a much-asked question and major story element from their headline franchise to the story from a videogame that not everyone is going to see?

Because it's a 'you knew it all along, you didn't realise you knew it' type moment if it's genuinely not that important.

There is a fair amount of lampshading (the two settling on Jakku, Del having a daughter, it being heavily hinted that he is or became force sensitive) that would fit them being Rey's parents. Given her age, being the child of two Jakku veterans would work, too, which doesn't really work for most 'significant' characters in the setting.

Also, if you read the new canon novels, really bad puns could be a thing

Okay: explaining my (probably stupid) theory. Queue 'metaplot music' - probably something on a tuba.

Apologies for extended rambling...

• This is the second film of a Star Wars Saga trilogy.
• Whilst it's not going to be 'Empire Strikes Back MkII', bits of that are inevitable.
• What it definitely is trying to be is a classic 'heroes' journey' story - a plot archetype which made the original trilogy so memorable and which the prequel trilogy wasn't, and is one of the core criticisms (as well as an overuse of CG) levelled against it.
  • Seriously; "who is the primary hero of the prequel trilogy?" should be an easy question. It doesn't really have an answer. Obiwan? Maybe?
  • Anyway, that's off-topic. Back to Rey.
• We are going in to The Last Jedi expecting a plot twist. And the story really needs to deliver one.
• How do you deliver a plot twist when the audience is expecting one? You can't deliver an 'expected surprise' without it being a let down.
  • Either Rey is a skywalker ("big whoop, saw that coming" say the audience) or she's not and you try to exposition her bloodline into the story ("big whoop, laaame, don't care" say the audience)
  • This is lose-lose. There is no good option.
• The way you surprise an audience expecting a surprise....is exactly the way it's done, day after day, by stage magicians.
  • Look at this hand. Follow this hand. Isn't this hand significant?
  • You weren't watching my other hand! Surprise!
• At this point, I remind you of That Line from The Empire Strikes Back.:
  • "No. I am your Father."
  • Everyone always forgets the first word; "No"
  • Vader's announcement was a shock twist because we already knew (we thought) who he was and what happened to his family.
• If I wanted to go into suspicious mode, I'd suggest this:
  • Rey is exactly who she claims in that first trailer voice-over; no-one especially significant.
  • Almost inevitably her family is connected to the narrative (like Iden/Del were) because nothing in Star Wars, especially for force sensitives, is ever 'just a co-incidence', but she's not a skywalker, or a palpatine, or Snoke's long-lost daughter, or whatever the heck. She's just....Rey.
  • The reason so much noise and waffle is made over her parents and heritage is that we're supposed to go "I wonder who she is? We don't know who she is! Who is she?" and fixate on the magician's left hand, when "the twist" is going to involve someone else.
    • Kylo Ren would be the obvious one - we know who his father was....but we knew who luke's father was, too, right up until the cloud city air vent scene. How do you suppose he'd react, for the sake of argument, if after all his anguish and angst-ing, he discovered Han wasn't his father?
    • Alternatively, Finn's parents are just handwaved away in a single throwaway line. We have absolutely no more idea who they are than Rey's, but somehow we're being persuaded to ignore it.

"This isn't going to go the way you think".....................................................

Rey's parentage isn't as big a deal to me right now (tbh i'll probably just play the new Iden stuff on the 13th, all indicators are it's a prequel to tfa anyway and more about backstory to the 1st order). What DOES have me really intrigued is that luke features in both the dark and light sides of my cinema's promo stands (with his tfa hood on the dark side and without on the light). WTF is up with that?

Edit: here it is in poster form....

https://static.highsnobiety.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/06201357/star-wars-last-jedi-international-poster-01.jpg

My argument for Iden and Del not being Rey's parent's is my same argument for why Snoke isn't Ezra or anyone from Star Wars Rebels. The majority of the movie going audience would be like "who?" Maybe she could be, but it won't come as some big reveal. Maybe a quick nod to her lineage that most will overlook?

Also, she is a bit more than "force sensitive". She's seemingly more powerful than Luke. I think her lineage will end up being ambiguous like Anakin's.

11 hours ago, Jo Jo said:

My argument for Iden and Del not being Rey's parent's is my same argument for why Snoke isn't Ezra or anyone from Star Wars Rebels. The majority of the movie going audience would be like "who?" Maybe she could be, but it won't come as some big reveal. Maybe a quick nod to her lineage that most will overlook?

Also, she is a bit more than "force sensitive". She's seemingly more powerful than Luke. I think her lineage will end up being ambiguous like Anakin's.

Only problem with this mindset is that we've already been exposed to that issue in TFA. We had an old man who was important enough to be known by the best pilot in the Resistance and who had found the Death Star plans map to Luke's location AND was known by the main bad guy. And yet we had no idea who he was. Wedge? General Rieekan (that was my honest guess)? Mon Mothma in dreadful need of hormone therapy? Who the heck just got slashed? Orsen Techa? Who the heck is that?

Even poor Captain Antilles at least got his name mentioned and a bit of connection to the droids after getting used as a stress ball by Darth Vader.

And don't even get me started on the multiple mentions of a certain crimson appendage that people were forced to go outside the movie plot to figure out the background of.

Since JJ 'master of the Lost story arch' Abrams isn't in charge of the next two movies, I can hope that we won't have to scour the internet just to figure out the hanging threads dangled into our eye. But if Episode 8 and 9 follow the example of 7, you can expect Snoke to be revealed as Yerath Benor. You know, Yerath Benor... archenemy of the Rebellion? How do you not know this? It's in the book that was released the day before the movie premiered!

10 hours ago, flyboymb said:

Since JJ 'master of the Lost story arch' Abrams isn't in charge of the next two movies, I can hope that we won't have to scour the internet just to figure out the hanging threads dangled into our eye. But if Episode 8 and 9 follow the example of 7, you can expect Snoke to be revealed as Yerath Benor. You know, Yerath Benor... archenemy of the Rebellion? How do you not know this? It's in the book that was released the day before the movie premiered!

Honestly, I don't know why there would be any "reveal" of who Snoke is, I expect he's just Snoke, the Bad Guy with the Stupid Name. (Seriously, it sounds a little worse each time you hear it...)

Much like The Emperor, he was just "The Emperor," you know? No reveal that he was a long-lost relative, just a bad guy.

4 hours ago, NotBatman said:

Honestly, I don't know why there would be any "reveal" of who Snoke is, I expect he's just Snoke, the Bad Guy with the Stupid Name. (Seriously, it sounds a little worse each time you hear it...)

Much like The Emperor, he was just "The Emperor," you know? No reveal that he was a long-lost relative, just a bad guy.

Agreed.

That was frustrating in the prequels though:

Ep1: Here's Darth Maul, he's your bad guy today.

Ep2: Here's some old fella, called Dooku he's your bad guy today.

Ep3: Here's an asthmatic cyborg, he's your bad guy today.

There was no consistency across the series. I hope they keep it consistent this time around.

8 hours ago, NotBatman said:

Honestly, I don't know why there would be any "reveal" of who Snoke is, I expect he's just Snoke, the Bad Guy with the Stupid Name. (Seriously, it sounds a little worse each time you hear it...)

Much like The Emperor, he was just "The Emperor," you know? No reveal that he was a long-lost relative, just a bad guy.

Honestly I don't know why C3PO had a red arm and kept pointing it out. The Snoke thing was just a potential example of how that could be done in future movies. I totally agree that not everything that is in a movie needs a full backstory. But the Emperor was named 'the Emperor' and Snoke was named Snoke. Lor San Tekka was made a major part of the opening scene without even being named.

Abrams seems to enjoy littering little bits of extras around the internet and other sources when it comes to his works (Cloverfield). For little extras on the universe, that's fine, but this was done with a character who had more screen time than Captain Phasma. I don't know if this is a new thing in the movie business to make people buy extra materials to get the complete story of the picture (something like a movie microtransaction), but if it is then you could totally see an instance where the BFII2 heroes were Rey's parents. It would just be expected that you buy a copy of BFII2 if you wanted to know who they were beyond their name.

14 hours ago, flyboymb said:

Honestly I don't know why C3PO had a red arm and kept pointing it out.

The way I saw it, it was just a running gag for Threepio and another demonstration of the passage of time. No additional information is needed for the story. The Falcon has a new dish, do we have to go out and look up the story for that too (because I'm sure someone's made one) or can we just roll on and not worry about it?

Star Wars has ALWAYS done this - they make an off-hand reference to something just to imply that there's a bigger universe than what's on the screen. "That bounty hunter we ran into on Ord Mandel changed my mind." We don't know anything about Ord Mandel, "the bounty hunter," or how he or she convinced Han that the responsible thing to do in life is to pay off your debts. It doesn't matter because it's Just a little flavor text, you don't actually need the details.

On 12/6/2017 at 10:00 AM, Conandoodle said:

Agreed.

That was frustrating in the prequels though:

Ep1: Here's Darth Maul, he's your bad guy today.

Ep2: Here's some old fella, called Dooku he's your bad guy today.

Ep3: Here's an asthmatic cyborg, he's your bad guy today.

There was no consistency across the series. I hope they keep it consistent this time around.

Killing off Maul in the 1st movie is my absolute worst thing the PT did. It makes Phantom almost a useless movie as far as the story line goes. Its missing that continuity that a villain still out there provides. Also, Maul was f*****g cool. Double bladed lightsaber, menacing as h*ll looking. You would think ol' Georgie would have learned his lesson from Boba Fett. You got a cool looking character that's mysterious, the audience digs that. Keep them around and give them more to do.

5 hours ago, NotBatman said:

The way I saw it, it was just a running gag for Threepio and another demonstration of the passage of time. No additional information is needed for the story. The Falcon has a new dish, do we have to go out and look up the story for that too (because I'm sure someone's made one) or can we just roll on and not worry about it?

Star Wars has ALWAYS done this - they make an off-hand reference to something just to imply that there's a bigger universe than what's on the screen. "That bounty hunter we ran into on Ord Mandel changed my mind." We don't know anything about Ord Mandel, "the bounty hunter," or how he or she convinced Han that the responsible thing to do in life is to pay off your debts. It doesn't matter because it's Just a little flavor text, you don't actually need the details.

Well, we know why the Falcon has a new dish thanks to Lando.

1 hour ago, Jo Jo said:

Well, we know why the Falcon has a new dish thanks to Lando.

We know Lando broke the old one, sure, but there's a ton more there. WHY does the Falcon alone have such a weird external dish when no other ship seems to need it? Why was this new addition necessary? Couldn't it have been internalized such that it was less likely to be broken off again in the future during a crucial operation where it might compromise everything? What does this one do better and worse than the old one and what does it do that's better and worse than a more protected, internalized system?

There's every bit as much potential for a story there as there is for Threepio's red arm.

And it matters just as much to the story at large, it's just background color and flavor.

I think the dish is a Corellian design thing. CR-90 Corellian Corvette has a big ole dish.

I think this debunks Rey being Iden and Del's offspring:

@ 1:03 you see a younger female that I have to assume is Iden's daughter. She is definitely not Rey.

On 12/7/2017 at 7:07 AM, NotBatman said:

The way I saw it, it was just a running gag for Threepio and another demonstration of the passage of time. No additional information is needed for the story. The Falcon has a new dish, do we have to go out and look up the story for that too (because I'm sure someone's made one) or can we just roll on and not worry about it?

Star Wars has ALWAYS done this - they make an off-hand reference to something just to imply that there's a bigger universe than what's on the screen. "That bounty hunter we ran into on Ord Mandel changed my mind." We don't know anything about Ord Mandel, "the bounty hunter," or how he or she convinced Han that the responsible thing to do in life is to pay off your debts. It doesn't matter because it's Just a little flavor text, you don't actually need the details.

The red arm is a counterexample of Chekhov's gun. That is to say, if you're going to bring a matter to the audiences' attention, it needs to have a purpose in the story. If somebody talks of a loaded pistol in the first act, it had better be fired in the second. Otherwise it shouldn't be added into the story.

Just think of all the scenes in Star Wars that would have been rendered totally pointless without a payoff. Imagine Garindan being focused on as our heroes go towards the hangar where the Falcon is kept and then he doesn't inform the stormtroopers and there is no firefight before takeoff. Garindan is totally superfluous to the plot at that point and it would be better that he was removed.

Explaining 3PO's arm is also a far cry from needing a back story on the Ord Mantell bounty hunter from ESB. That was a plot device. Solo wasn't likely to leave his friends and the woman who had caught his eye for no reason. The whole of the ANH was about his path from scoundrel to budding hero. Solo needed a kick in the pants to take him away from Leia in order to showcase to the audience that the attraction was at least somewhat mutual when her requests that he stay went far beyond that of somebody just wanting a useful ally.

But the bounty hunter can also be a loaded gun as well. It sets up to Solo's abduction from his friends at the climax of the film. Why would Boba want to take frozen Solo with him? Because there's still a price on his head elsewhere as we found out from the bounty hunter scene. Chekov's gun finally fires.This is far from demanding that each aspect of a story, it is merely expecting that if a story focuses its attention on an object, that object will actually have meaning. 3PO's arm is waved at us, twice. Sticking it in the audience's face like that and then just dropping the whole thing is bad writing and nothing else.

19 hours ago, flyboymb said:

The red arm is a counterexample of Chekhov's gun. That is to say, if you're going to bring a matter to the audiences' attention, it needs to have a purpose in the story. If somebody talks of a loaded pistol in the first act, it had better be fired in the second. Otherwise it shouldn't be added into the story.

Just think of all the scenes in Star Wars that would have been rendered totally pointless without a payoff. Imagine Garindan being focused on as our heroes go towards the hangar where the Falcon is kept and then he doesn't inform the stormtroopers and there is no firefight before takeoff. Garindan is totally superfluous to the plot at that point and it would be better that he was removed.

Explaining 3PO's arm is also a far cry from needing a back story on the Ord Mantell bounty hunter from ESB. That was a plot device. Solo wasn't likely to leave his friends and the woman who had caught his eye for no reason. The whole of the ANH was about his path from scoundrel to budding hero. Solo needed a kick in the pants to take him away from Leia in order to showcase to the audience that the attraction was at least somewhat mutual when her requests that he stay went far beyond that of somebody just wanting a useful ally.

But the bounty hunter can also be a loaded gun as well. It sets up to Solo's abduction from his friends at the climax of the film. Why would Boba want to take frozen Solo with him? Because there's still a price on his head elsewhere as we found out from the bounty hunter scene. Chekov's gun finally fires.This is far from demanding that each aspect of a story, it is merely expecting that if a story focuses its attention on an object, that object will actually have meaning. 3PO's arm is waved at us, twice. Sticking it in the audience's face like that and then just dropping the whole thing is bad writing and nothing else.

I agree with you both.

One of the things that makes the SW great is the level of emotion investment we have in the universe. Those 'throw away lines' about Ord Mandell, Blasting Wamp Rats in a T-16, Han and Lando's relationship etc, all serve a purpose. However, at a personal level, we build those stories ourselves. Those lines are a trigger. We immediately fill those stories out. With what!? With what is relevant and exciting to us. Our brain knows exactly what it likes. These stories (which are part of the SW universe) are tailored to meet our individual and specific interests whilst adhering to our own personal canon.

The same principal works in horror films. When we can't see the Alien/Monster our brain thinks of the scariest beast based on the limited information available to us. By the end of the film when we can actually see it .. we often think"Meh .. that's not too bad!" because we're seeing someone else's Alien .. not our own.

This is why I think origin stories and prequels do more damage to characters and franchises. They take our own bespoke stories away from us distancing our emotional investment from the universe.

On 12/7/2017 at 4:46 PM, Jo Jo said:

I think the dish is a Corellian design thing. CR-90 Corellian Corvette has a big ole dish.

I think this debunks Rey being Iden and Del's offspring:

@ 1:03 you see a younger female that I have to assume is Iden's daughter. She is definitely not Rey.

I think it was always pretty obvious that they wouldn't be Rey's parents, I mean just think of it from a the general movie going audience member, if they they said those were her parents how many people do you think would be like "Who?" If they are going to make Rey's parentage being a big secret reveal thing then she has to be related to some film character most likely because otherwise why do we care.

Actually at this point they might do it on purpose just to get Battlefront II2 some extra sales.

4 hours ago, Animewarsdude said:

I think it was always pretty obvious that they wouldn't be Rey's parents, I mean just think of it from a the general movie going audience member, if they they said those were her parents how many people do you think would be like "Who?" If they are going to make Rey's parentage being a big secret reveal thing then she has to be related to some film character most likely because otherwise why do we care.

But what if Rey's parents AREN'T relevant to the story .. but Disney is using it as a device to link the media platforms into telling the bigger story.

In the film, Luke might say something like "Your parents defected from the Empire. I met your father once .. I felt the force in him." That's enough for the film goers. Battlefront 2 then tells the tale of the two defecting .. just like the books, comics and animated series fill in blanks in the ' bigger story'.

I don't think the pilot we see at 1:03 in that clip can be identified as Iden's daughter.

See @flyboymb's comments re: Chekhov's Gun device. It seems really weird that there are references to their daughter.

I'm starting to see more and more merit in this theory.

#I+D=R

7 hours ago, Conandoodle said:

But what if Rey's parents AREN'T relevant to the story .. but Disney is using it as a device to link the media platforms into telling the bigger story.

In the film, Luke might say something like "Your parents defected from the Empire. I met your father once .. I felt the force in him." That's enough for the film goers. Battlefront 2 then tells the tale of the two defecting .. just like the books, comics and animated series fill in blanks in the ' bigger story'.

I don't think the pilot we see at 1:03 in that clip can be identified as Iden's daughter.

See @flyboymb's comments re: Chekhov's Gun device. It seems really weird that there are references to their daughter.

I'm starting to see more and more merit in this theory.

#I+D=R

One, there were references to the name of their daughter when people looked into the game's code, and the girl in the trailer is wearing the jacket the that Verso's husband had. And as for Rey, they played her parents up a fair bit and with the parallels that TFA had to ANH and that TLJ seems to have some as well I feel they will probably want to have some kind of big reveal because why not just have her name be known? I'm sure they are trying to go for a 'I'm your father' kind of moment, though if she ends up being the reincarnation of the chosen one that makes a fair bit of sense too especially since apparently Anakin as a force ghost hasn't just showed up and told Kylo to stop going down the murder path.

I really hope they don't pull an 'I am you father' bit in this trilogy. It has already been enough of an 'homage' to the previous trilogy, it doesn't need to pull the biggest plot point as well.

I could actually see @Conandoodle 's point with a passing reference. Something along the lines of 'After Ben betrayed the Jedi Order, he ordered your father's execution'. And this time it would be true instead of twisting the plot around. This could work along the lines of Rey having to resist the Dark Side (or even giving in to it) or being forced to take Kylo on as an ally against a bigger threat. This would take the story away from the OT plot line (always a good thing). It would also negate the need for either parent to actually show up in the movie and wouldn't be a nameless character like Lor San Tekka or an unfired gun like 3PO's red arm.

And here's another thing, BFII2 likely used motion capture technology in order to make things look like they do. While it likely isn't to the point of something like Beyond: Two Souls with Ellen Page (I don't think this game had a shower scene did it? lol), it could well be that the characters intentionally look like actors/actresses and that this could be possibly used in the upcoming two movies.

11 hours ago, flyboymb said:

And here's another thing, BFII2 likely used motion capture technology in order to make things look like they do. While it likely isn't to the point of something like Beyond: Two Souls with Ellen Page (I don't think this game had a shower scene did it? lol), it could well be that the characters intentionally look like actors/actresses and that this could be possibly used in the upcoming two movies.

This is a great point.

Though neither look like Rey. Hmmmmm.

On 12/10/2017 at 7:17 AM, Animewarsdude said:

One, there were references to the name of their daughter when people looked into the game's code, and the girl in the trailer is wearing the jacket the that Verso's husband had. And as for Rey, they played her parents up a fair bit and with the parallels that TFA had to ANH and that TLJ seems to have some as well I feel they will probably want to have some kind of big reveal because why not just have her name be known? I'm sure they are trying to go for a 'I'm your father' kind of moment, though if she ends up being the reincarnation of the chosen one that makes a fair bit of sense too especially since apparently Anakin as a force ghost hasn't just showed up and told Kylo to stop going down the murder path.

Yeah, to me it was pretty clear who the girl in the trailer is suppose to be. They go from a shot of an older Iden, then some X-wing carving through some landscape, then a shot of the girl in question. We should know for sure Wednesday when the Resurrection Campaign chapters hit.

56 minutes ago, Jo Jo said:

Yeah, to me it was pretty clear who the girl in the trailer is suppose to be. They go from a shot of an older Iden, then some X-wing carving through some landscape, then a shot of the girl in question. We should know for sure Wednesday when the Resurrection Campaign chapters hit.

If we'll have an answer about who this is two days before TLJ releases, I think that should definitely put a whole bunch of nails in any "Rey is Iden's Daughter" coffin there might be.

I'm pretty sure that coffin was a silly cardboard Halloween decoration in the first place, though...