Would having “The Imperial palace” face up in a province add 3 to the total glory as long as the orator’s ability is concerned?

The palace says it adds to each of your “glory couts”, but, the orator asks whether you “count more glory” among the ready participanting characters. I know it is nitpicking, but between the different wording and the fact that “glory count” is a defined term in the Rules Reference (page 8), which counts all ready characters not only participating ones, I’m not 100% sure the palace counts.

I believe this would be the relevant part of the Rules Reference:

Quote

Glory Count
When the players are asked to count glory, each player counts the total glory value among the ready characters he or she controls, and adds 1 to the total for each ring in his or her claimed ring pool. The player with the highest total wins the glory count.
◊ Some card abilities may require the players to count glory. Glory counts required by card abilities are made in the same manner, and the ability will detail how to process the result. Such counts do not affect the status of the Imperial Favor, unless the ability text causes the Imperial Favor status to change.

Thanks.

No, the Imperial Palace only counts during the glory count for the favor at the end of the Conflict Phase.

https://fiveringsdb.com/cards/search?q=imperial palace

Relevant text from the above link:

Radiant Orator does not take The Imperial Palace into account.

2 minutes ago, Horizonshard said:

No, the Imperial Palace only counts during the glory count for the favor at the end of the Conflict Phase.

https://fiveringsdb.com/cards/search?q=imperial palace

Relevant text from the above link:

Radiant Orator does not take The Imperial Palace into account.

Developer ruling

I just checked the Rules, not the actual card in the database .

I had assumed it would work, but because a bit dubious because of the wording.

Thank you.

seems really silly that it wouldnt work, the card its self even says each glory count.

Imperial Palace isn't a participating Character

From Orator:

Quote

While this character is participating in a conflict, if you count more current glory than your opponent among ready participating characters , choose an enemy character

46 minutes ago, Mirith said:

Imperial Palace isn't a participating Character

From Orator:

Isn’t the problem that Radiant Orator doesn’t cause a “glory cout” by the rulebook definition? If it said to do a glory count but only with participating characters the palace would still work, wouldn’t it?

14 minutes ago, Doji Tori said:

Isn’t the problem that Radiant Orator doesn’t cause a “glory cout” by the rulebook definition? If it said to do a glory count but only with participating characters the palace would still work, wouldn’t it?

Not sure then. Might be worded to avoid that intentionally.

Specifically:

Quote

This holding adds +3 to your side during each glory count.

This implies that the holding is the one adding to the glory count. Given that it isn't a character (or can participate), I would assume that it wouldn't add. But if it was some generic "Glory Count" it would work.

Just to add, if it were a Glory Count, reclaimed Rings will also count for radiant orator.

But the key here is that Radiant Orator’s ability is not a glory count. It just take some glory values into account to resolve its ability.

Side question on Orator. Do bowed characters participating in the conflict count towards current glory?

5 minutes ago, kiramode said:

Side question on Orator. Do bowed characters participating in the conflict count towards current glory?

No, because the ability specifies it's looking at ready, participating characters.

Apparently there's a difference between "counting Glory" (a count of Glory) and a "Glory Count" (Imperial Favor check).

16 minutes ago, Kakita Shiro said:

Apparently there's a difference between "counting Glory" (a count of Glory) and a "Glory Count" (Imperial Favor check).

There is. A Glory Count has to be always called by name, as in “make a Glory Count”. Any other effect that just tell you to count glory amongst some cards is not a Glory Count.

Just now, Tabris2k said:

There is. A Glory Count has to be always called by name, as in “make a Glory Count”. Any other effect that just tell you to count glory amongst some cards is not a Glory Count.

That's what I just said. The whole situation could have been avoided if they didn't reuse the word Glory.

1 minute ago, Kakita Shiro said:

That's what I just said. The whole situation could have been avoided if they didn't reuse the word Glory.

But they have to use the word “glory” in both cases. It’s a stat, after all, and it is referred to by some abilities and game steps.

I think they did well in the case of this cards. The card explicitly tells you if you count more glory among readied characters, not to do a Glory Count.

And the Imperial Palace explicitly tells you that you receive +3 glory during Glory Counts (which is defined in the RRD)

I don’t see how this lead to confusion.

Just now, Tabris2k said:

But they have to use the word “glory” in both cases. It’s a stat, after all, and it is referred to by some abilities and game steps.

I think they did well in the case of this cards. The card explicitly tells you if you count more glory among readied characters, not to do a Glory Count.

And the Imperial Palace explicitly tells you that you receive +3 glory during Glory Counts (which is defined in the RRD)

I don’t see how this lead to confusion.

You don't see how "count glory" and "Glory Count" can be confused? They're the same words used for two different things.

13 minutes ago, Kakita Shiro said:

You don't see how "count glory" and "Glory Count" can be confused? They're the same words used for two different things.

The card actually says “...i f you count more current glory than...”

And Imperial Palace says “... adds +3 to your side during each glory count.”

You just have to look at the RRD under “glory count”, which has its own section.

The main issue is that, literally, the first line under Glory Count in the Rules Reference is " When the players are asked to count glory, ..."

It's pretty clear the intent since they specify the glory "among ready participating characters", and not an overall glory count per the RRG. It's like confusing your skill in a duel with overall skill in a conflict. The imperial palace doesn't count just like imperial favor doesn't count. Those cards affect an overal glory count but do not affect the stats of characters.