Let’s start by stating the seven tenets of Bushido, for those who don’t know them:

Compassion, Courage, Courtesy, Honor, Duty/Loyalty, Sincerity/Integrity, and Righteousness.

They may vary depending on translation, but I took these from the FFG L5R RPG Beta Rulebook, so let’s suppose they’ll be the same for the LCG.

The Core set introduced two of the virtues as Keywords: Sincerity (when a card with Sincerity leaves play, its controller draws a card), and Courtesy (when a card with Courtesy leaves play, its controller gains 1 Fate).

Frankly, I was expecting to see at least one more Bushido keyword within the first cycle, but we have seen more than half the new cards and no sign of a new virtue of Bushido.

So, what do you think? Do you think they have all the Virtues Keywords planned, or it was just those two, and we won’t see more? And when they’ll see play? Two per cycle, starting next? One in each deluxe?

And more importantly: What do you think they’ll do? Following the “when card leaves play, gain X” theme, I think the most obvious can be Honor, gaining 1 Honor when card leaves play (maybe doing Honor victory decks viable), but I’m at lost at what could the others be.

Honor: When this character leaves play gain 1 Honor.

21 minutes ago, Tabris2k said:

And more importantly: What do you think they’ll do? Following the “when card leaves play, gain X” theme, I think the most obvious can be Honor, gaining 1 Honor when card leaves play (maybe doing Honor victory decks viable), but I’m at lost at what could the others be.

But doesn't the honour status token already do that? It is already a part of the game, just not explicitly printed as a keyword/trait.

1 minute ago, Akodo Tetsuo said:

But doesn't the honour status token already do that? It is already a part of the game, just not explicitly printed as a keyword/trait.

Double Honor gain perhaps?

Just now, cforfar said:

Double Honor gain perhaps?

That would certainly ramp up the honour victory game!

I can see them being released at a later time. For the most part I would expect them to be variants of the effects we've seen so far. You could also have them be an inverse so your opponent discards a resource when they enter or leave play. It could break down as something like:

Compassion - When this character enters play you may add 1 fate token to a character in play.
Courage - When this characters leaves play an opponent must discard 1 card
Honor - When this character leaves play gain 1 honor
Duty/Loyalty - When this character leaves play an opponent must discard 1 honor
Righteousness - When this characters leaves play an opponent must discard 1 fate

3 minutes ago, Akodo Tetsuo said:

But doesn't the honour status token already do that? It is already a part of the game, just not explicitly printed as a keyword/trait.

If its keyword than it doesn't need to be status dependent, and if they are honored you can double dip.

I love rampant speculation! Funnily enough, I thought for a moment that Pride was a similar Bushido-keyword, until I realized Pride was not among the tenants

Compassion - When this leaves play, you may honor a character.
Courage - When this enters play, it gets +1/+1 until the end of the round.
Honor - When this character leaves play gain 1 honor [This does seem right and likely]
Duty - When this enters play, you may place 1 fate on it.
Righteousness - When this leaves play, you may dishonor a character.

Not sure if the whole set of them (if there is a set) will be triggers on leaving play, so I went with a couple enters-play effects as well. If it's a looser cycle than what we're speculating, we could see a variety of effects, more like:

Compassion - While in a conflict with two other friendly characters, this character has +1/+1.
Courage - When in a conflict with two or more opposing characters, this character has +1/+1. [Or these could be split to be +2/0 for courage and +0/2 for compassion]
Honor - +1 to glory when honored.
Duty - Cannot be bowed by opponent's effects.
Righteousness - This character cannot be dishonored.

I think it's unlikely, and that we'll get something more tightly related to entering/leaving and resource management, but it's fun to speculate!

I hadn’t thought about entering effects, or even discard effects.

Then maybe the Honor Keyword could be “When this character enters play, honor him”, like Honored General.

And Loyalty maybe “When this character leaves play, discard a status token on a character you control”

BTW, I’m assuming all this keywords will be only in character cards.

I would have compassion be "When a fate would be placed on this character you may place it on any other character"

3 hours ago, Horizonshard said:

I would have compassion be "When a fate would be placed on this character you may place it on any other character"

Yes, I was thinking of Compassion as when it entered play it could donate a Fate on it to a character already in play.

Maybe Duty is when it is discarded it is shuffled back into your deck instead?

I do like Courage as a "When outnumbered in a Conflict, gain +1 in the conflict type"
Maybe even "Gain X, where X is the number by which you are outnumbered"

Righteousness maybe "At the end of the Fate phase if dishonored, rehonor this character"? So it doesn't completely shut down Dishonor but whatever sins their accused of, they will redeem themselves through their gallant behavior.

I was thinking that “gain 1 Honor” is too easy.

So maybe something like:

Honor (when Honored, this character’s glory count as 1 higher)

Oh, and:

Loyalty (when dishonored, this character’s glory count as 1 lower)

Right now we have too few mechanics that changes Glory. I think the only one is the Phoenix SH. Although maybe we’ll see more if the next deluxe is really Phoenix. Hopefully via Bushido keywords!

i would assume the traits are leaving play only, just as Courtesy and Sincerity are. Based on the existing two, I could see the following:

• Courtesy - When this character leave play, gain 1 fate
• Sincerity - When this character leaves play, draw 1 card
• Compassion - When this character leaves play, your opponent loses 1 honor
• Courage - When this character leaves play, you may remove 1 fate from any character
• Honor - When this character leaves play, gain 1 honor
• Duty - When this leaves play, you may place 1 fate on any character
• Righteousness - When this character leaves play, your opponent must discard 1 card

An alternate to Duty might be to place it on top of your Dynasty Deck, or shuffle it back in, but I don't know how balanced such a thing would be.

If you wanted to have some as "enter play" effects, I would have:

• Courtesy - When this character leave play, gain 1 fate
• Sincerity - When this character leaves play, draw 1 card
• Compassion - When this character leaves play, your opponent loses 1 honor
• Courage - When this character leaves play, you may remove 1 fate from any character
• Honor - When this character enters play, honor it
• Duty - When this enters play, you may place 1 fate on it
• Righteousness - When this character enters play, draw 1 card

An alternate to Righteousness might be to Dishonor another character.

Those keywords can be as powerful as desired, since they the characters can then be priced accordingly. Although it is likely they keeps the "when this character leaves play" condition, I decided to explore other possibilities.

Duty: If discarded during a conflict in which he is participating, this character still count his skill at the end of the conflict.

Righteousness: You cannot lose control of this card or it's attachments.

Compassion: If you win a conflict as the attacker in which this character is participating and choose not to activate a ring effect, gain 1 Honor.

Honor: This character cannot be dishonored.

Courage: This character counts his skill at the end of a conflict even if bowed.

Isn't "Pride" a Bushido Virtue?

3 minutes ago, Ishi Tonu said:

Isn't "Pride" a Bushido Virtue?

It is not. I thought it might have been one of the tenants of Shourido, but it's not among them either. It is, however, one of the seven deadly sins. Not that Rokugan agrees. Pride is generally seen as a positive trait when merited.

On 12/1/2017 at 3:48 PM, Mirumoto Shiroiken said:

i would assume the traits are leaving play only, just as Courtesy and Sincerity are. Based on the existing two, I could see the following:

• Courtesy - When this character leave play, gain 1 fate
• Sincerity - When this character leaves play, draw 1 card
• Compassion - When this character leaves play, your opponent loses 1 honor
• Courage - When this character leaves play, you may remove 1 fate from any character
• Honor - When this character leaves play, gain 1 honor
• Duty - When this leaves play, you may place 1 fate on any character
• Righteousness - When this character leaves play, your opponent must discard 1 card

An alternate to Duty might be to place it on top of your Dynasty Deck, or shuffle it back in, but I don't know how balanced such a thing would be.

If you wanted to have some as "enter play" effects, I would have:

• Courtesy - When this character leave play, gain 1 fate
• Sincerity - When this character leaves play, draw 1 card
• Compassion - When this character leaves play, your opponent loses 1 honor
• Courage - When this character leaves play, you may remove 1 fate from any character
• Honor - When this character enters play, honor it
• Duty - When this enters play, you may place 1 fate on it
• Righteousness - When this character enters play, draw 1 card

An alternate to Righteousness might be to Dishonor another character.

Compassion implies feeling sorry for others so it should read ;

Compassion (When this character wins a conflict, give the losing side 1 honor.)

Courage implies fearlessness and the will to continue so should read;

Courage (This character does not bow from conflict resolution)

Honor implies just that so Honor (when this character enters play, honor it)

Duty implies doing whatever it demanded of you regardless of personal need so it should stay around thus

Duty (this character enters play with 1 Fate on it)

and Righteousness is very haughty and personal so Righteousness (When this character attacks, it gains +2 Glory until end of conflict)

3 hours ago, AradonTemplar said:

It is not. I thought it might have been one of the tenants of Shourido, but it's not among them either. It is, however, one of the seven deadly sins. Not that Rokugan agrees. Pride is generally seen as a positive trait when merited.

The dark virtues were control, determination, insight, knowledge, perfection, strength, and will.

38 minutes ago, Lord Ammon said:

The dark virtues were control, determination, insight, knowledge, perfection, strength, and will.

Control - when this character enters play, target a personality, bow it.

Determination - This character does not bow from resolution after winning a conflict

Insight - When this character enters play, draw a card

Knowledge - when this character enters play, look at a random card in your opponent's hand

Perfection - when this character wins a duel, honor it

Strength - This character gains +2 mil skill when attacking

Will - This character cannot be bowed by card effects your opponent controls

14 hours ago, Lord Ammon said:

The dark virtues were control, determination, insight, knowledge, perfection, strength, and will.

Man, I consider myself a rather ethical person and the dark virtues sound pretty pretty good to me

But I'm the type to read the Sith Code and go "Huh, doesn't mention ANYTHING about kicking puppies here. Why are they always the bad guys?"

2 hours ago, Waywardpaladin said:

Man, I consider myself a rather ethical person and the dark virtues sound pretty pretty good to me

But I'm the type to read the Sith Code and go "Huh, doesn't mention ANYTHING about kicking puppies here. Why are they always the bad guys?"

The reason they are "bad" is because they selfishly put yourself ahead of your duty to others which is an important part of Rokugani society.

As to the Sith always being the bad guys they have to be. There is no way a big movie or story could be made today that would advocate for the kind of master morality that the Sixth would represent if they were cast in any light other than unredeemable villains who do bad things for the fun of it.

17 minutes ago, Lord Ammon said:

The reason they are "bad" is because they selfishly put yourself ahead of your duty to others which is an important part of Rokugani society.

As to the Sith always being the bad guys they have to be. There is no way a big movie or story could be made today that would advocate for the kind of master morality that the Sixth would represent if they were cast in any light other than unredeemable villains who do bad things for the fun of it.

But Jedi kidnapping children, and then forcing those who aren't strong enough to grow food for them and maintain their weapons of war are the good guys.

Rokugani culture makes my skin crawl in large part. Divine conquerors enslaving mankind to worship and serve their descendants at the edge of a blade sounds like the setup for a story where mankind rises up and throws off the Celestial order, but instead bootlicking divinity is held up as an ideal, even when every man has the potential to become divine and the path to that is being hidden "for their own good" by the Phoenix.

39 minutes ago, Waywardpaladin said:

But Jedi kidnapping children, and then forcing those who aren't strong enough to grow food for them and maintain their weapons of war are the good guys.

Rokugani culture makes my skin crawl in large part. Divine conquerors enslaving mankind to worship and serve their descendants at the edge of a blade sounds like the setup for a story where mankind rises up and throws off the Celestial order, but instead bootlicking divinity is held up as an ideal, even when every man has the potential to become divine and the path to that is being hidden "for their own good" by the Phoenix.

Pretty sure you are a kolat recruiter.

3 hours ago, Goshiu said:

Pretty sure you are a kolat recruiter.

If they were a playable faction, sure. Unfortunately, it sounds like they're presented in a pretty moustache twirling villain fashion.

8 hours ago, Waywardpaladin said:

Man, I consider myself a rather ethical person and the dark virtues sound pretty pretty good to me

Well, I mean, they were worded that way as a part of an intentional effort to mislead samurai into thinking Shourido was a good thing.