Just now, VanderLegion said:

You can't AS PTL into a talon roll or k-turn. You can only do one of the 2 repositions.

What's fun is that if you dialed in a red move but you'd rather do a 2-straight, you can AS PTL to do a 2-straight instead. You'll still take a stress, but it does mean you have more options with that red maneuver. It would be interesting to see that on a map.

2 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

You can't AS PTL into a talon roll or k-turn. You can only do one of the 2 repositions.

This is only half true. Every red move is a combo of boost+roll, or just boost/roll 2 straight, as well as boost red move, or roll red move, or standard red move. If there's a single lower PS ship vs kylo, the game is over.

5 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

You can't AS PTL into a talon roll or k-turn. You can only do one of the 2 repositions.

True true. Will Edit!

I'm thinking that a few good players will excel with the movement options, where most people will be making the wrong choice with at least one of them. It's a good ship. Strong. But it won't be forgiving.

1 minute ago, LagJanson said:

I'm thinking that a few good players will excel with the movement options, where most people will be making the wrong choice with at least one of them. It's a good ship. Strong. But it won't be forgiving.

One of the biggest problems I see is that you're still having to guess on stuff, because to get PTL you have to be PS9, which is a relatively low Pilot Skill in today's meta. Sure, Kylo will be a huge NPE for any casual game night, but at tournaments people will see it coming and fly stuff at PS10 and 11.

9 minutes ago, Brunas said:

You misunderstand - getting blocked on the large base is a feature, not a bug. You've already taken your actions, just get your arc pointed where you want it.

Asteroids remove significantly less options than I expected. Obviously Silencers aren't going to come in and break the game, but even with large rocks all over the board I've had no trouble decloaking advanced sensor getting to wherever I want. But yes, Kylo is very bullyable. You can control where he moves, because he's not a turret. Hopefully it's enough that he's fun to play against.

In my mind, what asteroids do is tell you that he's not going to pre-boost/roll in a particular direction. The further put they are, the less effect they have.

All in all, I think he'll be good, maybe very good, but I'm not thoroughly convinced that he's in the same ballpark as the hype.

9 minutes ago, Brunas said:

You misunderstand - getting blocked on the large base is a feature, not a bug. You've already taken your actions, just get your arc pointed where you want it.

That depends? Not if the large base is worth more points, not in a 1v1 situation, not if the large base is higher PS or Kylo has initiative.
And for cases where he moves first: Kylo has to choose whether he repositions before or after movement, and he can't go after in one turn, and then before in the next. For both cases there's a correct choice where to go. Nym did not have these problems because he could bomb and had a turret.

I'm not saying Kylo is bad, but FatHan being the Answer to Whisper seems to be true, still.

20 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

You can't AS PTL into a talon roll or k-turn. You can only do one of the 2 repositions.

Fixed?

Just now, GreenDragoon said:

That depends? Not if the large base is worth more points, not in a 1v1 situation, not if the large base is higher PS or Kylo has initiative.
And for cases where he moves first: Kylo has to choose whether he repositions before or after movement, and he can't go after in one turn, and then before in the next. For both cases there's a correct choice where to go. Nym did not have these problems because he could bomb and had a turret.

I'm not saying Kylo is bad, but FatHan being the Answer to Whisper seems to be true, still.

6 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

In my mind, what asteroids do is tell you that he's not going to pre-boost/roll in a particular direction. The further put they are, the less effect they have.

All in all, I think he'll be good, maybe very good, but I'm not thoroughly convinced that he's in the same ballpark as the hype.

I broke formatting and I don't know how to fix it, RIP. Yes, high PS Fat turrets are good against kylo. I'm not sure they're great, because throwing one damage into him a turn is extremely painfully slow with 6 health, but it works. Funnily enough, Gunner doesn't really help (at least on RAC), because you do hit him, just for not a lot of damage.

Yep, exactly that Biophysical. The main thing is though, there's almost always another way to get to effectively the same place as what the rock is blocking, even if you know the dial. E.g. a boost roll 2 turn is often effectively the same thing as a roll boost 2 turn, though the final position is slightly different. But, any corralling you can do is good, because kylo isn't soontir and actually takes damage when he's shot.

I don't even know where the hype is for Kylo. I see everything ranging from "Kylo is the end of XWing" to "bro just take VI FCS Autothrusters, everything else is a waste". He seems good? Maybe meta defining? The "Get Kylo to the end game and win by default" strategy seems to be very real.

2 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

Reading this in Adam Driver's deadpan voice is magical.

14 minutes ago, Brunas said:

Yes, high PS Fat turrets are good against kylo. I'm not sure they're great, because throwing one damage into him a turn is extremely painfully slow with 6 health, but it works. Funnily enough, Gunner doesn't really help (at least on RAC), because you do hit him, just for not a lot of damage.

That was for Fat turrets. The other ship type to hurt him is probably TLT+Bombs? So Nym and Miranda. And both are more than 45-47 points, usually. And definitely can be built to be more expensive.

Nym will have the PS advantage.
Miranda will just do damage and he can't do anything against it expect kill her first? (edit: which will be really slow because she regens every turn)

14 minutes ago, Brunas said:

I don't even know where the hype is for Kylo.

Personally I'm hyped because he brings back a type that is currently rare.

Also for the formatting: on a desktop, click and drag the quote around. On mobile: nothing you can do.

31 minutes ago, VanderLegion said:

You can't AS PTL into a talon roll or k-turn. You can only do one of the 2 repositions.

Sure you can, just bring Yorr

5 minutes ago, Tbetts94 said:

Sure you can, just bring Yorr

Also if your game is on stream you can do Red moves while stressed. Thanks Gold Squadron.

18 minutes ago, ObiWonka said:

Reading this in Adam Driver's deadpan voice is magical.

Now imagine that with his mask's filter on.

Suddenly the line is absolutely terrifying.

51 minutes ago, Kieransi said:

What's fun is that if you dialed in a red move but you'd rather do a 2-straight, you can AS PTL to do a 2-straight instead. You'll still take a stress, but it does mean you have more options with that red maneuver. It would be interesting to see that on a map.

51 minutes ago, Brunas said:

This is only half true. Every red move is a combo of boost+roll, or just boost/roll 2 straight, as well as boost red move, or roll red move, or standard red move. If there's a single lower PS ship vs kylo, the game is over.

I was pointing it out because he'd done movement maps of where you end up after doing AS double-reposition into a k-turn or talon roll itself, which doesn't work. The double-reposition to do a 2s instead works fine. Or the singel reposition before a red.

1 minute ago, VanderLegion said:

I was pointing it out because he'd done movement maps of where you end up after doing AS double-reposition into a k-turn or talon roll itself, which doesn't work. The double-reposition to do a 2s instead works fine. Or the singel reposition before a red.

Right, should be sorted now. One for a single action either boost barrel roll before/after. And then same thing I originally had assuming Yorr is on the table.

1 hour ago, Brunas said:

I don't even know where the hype is for Kylo. I see everything ranging from "Kylo is the end of XWing" to "bro just take VI FCS Autothrusters, everything else is a waste". He seems good? Maybe meta defining? The "Get Kylo to the end game and win by default" strategy seems to be very real.

Certainly the hype is all over the place. I guess the part I don't believe is the Krayt level "savior of the Empire" hype. Although I also don't believe the "Only VI Kylo is good" level as well. I'm fully willing to believe that there's a build that ends up being better than both of those, because he's got some potent options and I'm not 100% sure he's so hard up for actions that he needs PTL.

Just me saying that makes me wonder if one way to go is Lone Wolf/Advanced Sensors. You'll get a couple soft re-rolls for offense, re-rolls for defense, more of that amazing dial, and a lot of maneuverability.

The thing is, this is a very new type of ship, so past experiences are not necessarily great for predictions. This isn't the Inquisitor, who was a a somewhat different flavor of Soontir Fel, this is moderate HP, high speed, good, but not amazing defense, and good, but not amazing offense. It's B+ in a lot of ways with 1-2 A's as well. I think fully realized Kylo will take some time to figure out.

9 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

I think fully realized Kylo will take some time to figure out.

Wrong. The meta can be determined 100% from the first hint of a spoiler.

(Also, I'm a huge fan of Lone Wolf, and with all the options Kylo has it very well could be quite good on him.)

Just now, ObiWonka said:

Wrong. The meta can be determined 100% from the first hint of a spoiler.

(Also, I'm a huge fan of Lone Wolf, and with all the options Kylo has it very well could be quite good on him.)

The first I seriously thought about it was the moment before I typed it, and it's growing on me. With his dial and AS, you should have a much easier job of keeping Range 2 than most carriers while keeping a high time on target.

55 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Right, should be sorted now. One for a single action either boost barrel roll before/after. And then same thing I originally had assuming Yorr is on the table.

You don't have to do this, but you could add all the options listed by Brunas onto that. You can do a single action, boost OR barrel roll, and then the red maneuver, or a double action boost AND barrel roll and then the dial changes to an white 2-straight. There are definitely situations where using that rule to your advantage is going to be useful.

23 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

Krayt level "savior of the Empire" hype.

Oh man, I love this - I've been drumming up the hype trains for playing kylo and silencers, because I'm super hyped to do it and it's crazy fun. I also think it's really good, but any guess for how good it is is just that, a guess. I would guess Kylo as competitive, potentially meta-warping? I don't know. I do know that if it's kylo on the board vs literally anything lower PS, the game is straight over, which feels kind of bad to play against and I'm kind of concerned about.

Also, on lone wolf - I'm not sure. Not sold, but would believe you if that makes sense. Mostly just a ???????????????????????????.

Here's a comparison I'm already made at making: Kylo without push is most similar to thweek, who runs 30 points for FCS/thrusters? I notice we never see advanced sensors thweek, probably because the barrel roll lets you just do whatever you want anyways. I'm skeptical that thweek is even worth the 30 points, do you really expect to see a slightly better defensive/offensive version in kylo at 42/44 points?

Sorry for my boring "I guess we'll see opinion", let me fix it really quick

SILENCERS AND KRAYTS ON TOP ONCE MORE THE SITH WILL RULE THE GALAXY BOTH SCUM FACTIONS DOOMED GIT GUD ETC

Just now, Kieransi said:

You don't have to do this, but you could add all the options listed by Brunas onto that. You can do a single action, boost OR barrel roll, and then the red maneuver, or a double action boost AND barrel roll and then the dial changes to an white 2-straight. There are definitely situations where using that rule to your advantage is going to be useful.

This is my biggest concern about the silencer. The first time I did my opponent was just "huh", and the second when it was just kylo vs. another ship, the response was just laughing for a while and conceding because he saw he'd never be able to get me in arc ever. It's absolutely crazy.

4 minutes ago, Brunas said:

Oh man, I love this - I've been drumming up the hype trains for playing kylo and silencers, because I'm super hyped to do it and it's crazy fun. I also think it's really good, but any guess for how good it is is just that, a guess. I would guess Kylo as competitive, potentially meta-warping? I don't know. I do know that if it's kylo on the board vs literally anything lower PS, the game is straight over, which feels kind of bad to play against and I'm kind of concerned about.

Also, on lone wolf - I'm not sure. Not sold, but would believe you if that makes sense. Mostly just a ???????????????????????????.

Here's a comparison I'm already made at making: Kylo without push is most similar to thweek, who runs 30 points for FCS/thrusters? I notice we never see advanced sensors thweek, probably because the barrel roll lets you just do whatever you want anyways. I'm skeptical that thweek is even worth the 30 points, do you really expect to see a slightly better defensive/offensive version in kylo at 42/44 points?

Sorry for my boring "I guess we'll see opinion", let me fix it really quick

The thing is "arc locked, lower PS than Kylo" is an increasingly small portion of the population. I'm running quad FAA Rebels in the upcoming Vassal tourney, and I e,left to see a lot of Kylos. Those along with Imperial pocket aces are pribably the only arc locked ships less than PS9 that might see serious play, and there's and argument that they're borderline anyway. If I get dumpstered in that matchup, we can probably expect your prediction to be right, which will just push people toward counters.

The VI version is the one most like Thweek, but there are interesting differences. The extra hit point and pilot ability do matter, but the big difference is dial. I rate speed pretty highly, and the Starviper only sort of has it. The Silencer has it in spades. Furthermore, Thweek makes you take a bid, so the price is closer to 32-33 compared to 40 for a cheap Kylo, who doesnt really need one. Although it does increase his price, the tech options can be useful as well.

So yeah, it's not hugely different from Thweek, but there are differences, and it's not like Thweek is bad.

Just now, Biophysical said:

A bunch of reasonable stuff, but then:

and it's not like Thweek is bad.

Angry reacts only

2 minutes ago, Brunas said:

Angry reacts only

Thweek with a bid beats PTL/AS Kylo.

42 minutes ago, Brunas said:

This is my biggest concern about the silencer. The first time I did my opponent was just "huh", and the second when it was just kylo vs. another ship, the response was just laughing for a while and conceding because he saw he'd never be able to get me in arc ever. It's absolutely crazy.

Is it really anything new?

I feel like the closest equivalent to PTL Kylo against lower PS ships is probably Dash with PTL/Mangler and EU.

Thinking of the first time I used Dash against a Tie Swarm....

Whats "funny" is Kylo's ability to blind or PS0 ships that are shooting at him.

There going to be a lot of situations where its 110% unnecessary to use his pilot ability.