How does Genesys handle grouped minions soak wise? Is soak only subtracted once from the damage or for each minion, when carried over?

For example, there are two minions in a group, with soak 3 and 4 wounds per minion. Now a PC deals 12 damage. soak 3 is substracted, so 9 damage remain, easily taking one minion out. So 5 damage carry over to the next minion. Is soak 3 subtracted again, so just 2 damage go through leaving the second minion with 2 wounds left or does the the second minion suffer the whole 5 damage annihilating it instantly?

Soak is applied once per hit.

2 minutes ago, 2P51 said:

Soak is applied once per hit.

Thanks. Neat, this makes heroes more heroic and minions as squishy as they are intended to be!

Its the same way on the Star Wars rpg.

4 hours ago, DarthDude said:

For example, there are two minions in a group, with soak 3 and 4 wounds per minion.

Further to your example is the question of "When does a minion in a group go down?"

For me, this has been less than intuitive, but for your example in the SWRPG, the first minion is still standing after taking 4 wounds. It is not until the fifth wound is applied that the first minion goes down -- BUT, that fifth wound is also the second minion's FIRST wound. If there was a third minion, the same pattern would apply.

Also, while this makes me think it would require 9 wounds to take out the entire 2-minion group, it actually only takes 8 wounds.

Please, someone, correct me if I got this wrong, but this is how I understand it to work based on the RAW and various threads in the SW forums.

I believe the first minion goes down after 4 wounds.

I am wrong.

Wound threshold does need to be exceeded. It's a little odd in the minion rules but it's technically RAW. It also is no big deal to ignore and not worry about the math quite that accurately.

8 minutes ago, 2P51 said:

Wound threshold does need to be exceeded. It's a little odd in the minion rules but it's technically RAW. It also is no big deal to ignore and not worry about the math quite that accurately.

But why does it only take 8 wounds to take out the second minion in the above example? Shouldn't another wound be needed to exceed the threshold on the last minion?

3 minutes ago, 2P51 said:

Wound threshold does need to be exceeded. It's a little odd in the minion rules but it's technically RAW. It also is no big deal to ignore and not worry about the math quite that accurately.

But...but...my OCD!?? ? I usually, inadvertently, forget about the 'exceeded' part anyway.

4 minutes ago, TheSapient said:

But why does it only take 8 wounds to take out the second minion in the above example? Shouldn't another wound be needed to exceed the threshold on the last minion?

It doesn't; 8 wounds, by RAW, will only take out one Minion. You need to deal 9 damage (after Soak) to take out two minions from the group.

Like I said, the math is goofy in minion groups and not game breaking to just ignore.

1 minute ago, DarthGM said:

It doesn't; 8 wounds, by RAW, will only take out one Minion. You need to deal 9 damage (after Soak) to take out two minions from the group.

Ok. That makes sense then.

5 minutes ago, TheSapient said:

But why does it only take 8 wounds to take out the second minion in the above example? Shouldn't another wound be needed to exceed the threshold on the last minion?

I originally thought each minion's WT had to be exceeded, but if you have to do an extra wound per minion, they get to be more powerful the bigger the group. i.e.: 8 minions would be 8 more wounds that the PCs would have to score on them.

However, 1 wound more or less to take out the group is no big deal, so thus 8, not 9 in the above example.

6 minutes ago, DarthGM said:

It doesn't; 8 wounds, by RAW, will only take out one Minion. You need to deal 9 damage (after Soak) to take out two minions from the group.

So, you're saying that the number of wounds needed to take out a minion group (after soak) is = ( # minions * wound threshold ) + 1 ?

1 minute ago, admutt said:

I originally thought each minion's WT had to be exceeded, but if you have to do an extra wound per minion, they get to be more powerful the bigger the group. i.e.: 8 minions would be 8 more wounds that the PCs would have to score on them.

However, 1 wound more or less to take out the group is no big deal, so thus 8, not 9 in the above example.

No all minion groups are dead at WT +1. The +1 to kill each carries over onto the next one.

2 minutes ago, admutt said:

I originally thought each minion's WT had to be exceeded, but if you have to do an extra wound per minion, they get to be more powerful the bigger the group. i.e.: 8 minions would be 8 more wounds that the PCs would have to score on them.

However, 1 wound more or less to take out the group is no big deal, so thus 8, not 9 in the above example.

Eh...sort of; take the number of minions and pool their Wound Thresholds - So a group of 3 minions with WTs of 4 have a "group WT" of 12. Every time you deal enough damage to exceed one minon's WT, a Minion is defeated. So deal 4 damage (after soak) and no minions are defeated. Deal 5-8 damage to the Group WT and one minion is defeated from the group. Deal 9-12 damage and 2 minions are defeated from the group. Deal 13 damage after soak and all minions are defeated.

Each minion doesn't get an "extra" hit to be defeated, but you do need to deal that extra point of damage to exceed the thresholds.

51 minutes ago, DarthGM said:

Eh...sort of; take the number of minions and pool their Wound Thresholds - So a group of 3 minions with WTs of 4 have a "group WT" of 12. Every time you deal enough damage to exceed one minon's WT, a Minion is defeated. So deal 4 damage (after soak) and no minions are defeated. Deal 5-8 damage to the Group WT and one minion is defeated from the group. Deal 9-12 damage and 2 minions are defeated from the group. Deal 13 damage after soak and all minions are defeated.

Each minion doesn't get an "extra" hit to be defeated, but you do need to deal that extra point of damage to exceed the thresholds.

Good that I asked, I always got a little confused by the handling of minion groups. It's okay that you need WT+1 to down a minion if soak is only applied once, no matter how many minions you take out.

I know I'm coming to the party late but I use a graphic to track minion groups. Looks like this:

1 2 3 4 5|6 7 8 9 0|1 2 3 4 5|x

This is for minions with a WT of 5. I scratch out a number (I do this on laminated paper during a session) for each wound the group takes. Once a wound beyond the first line is ticked, the first minion goes down, beyond the second line the second minion goes down, and so on until I tick the "x" where the last one is defeated. Until I did this method, I always found keeping track of multiple minion groups to be a bit muddy.

You've probably had your method figured out for a long time now, but I thought I would share because this was shared with me and I appreciated it. Sharing is caring.

Can I get a quick re-explanation of minion groups against blast damage? Using the same soak 3 and wound threshold 4 as the OP. My understanding is a blast 5 against that group would do 5-3=2 damage to every minion in the group, correct? Regardless of how many minions are in the group. Basically a second identical blast would kill them all since they'd each have 2 wounds remaining.

1 hour ago, Dragonshadow said:

Can I get a quick re-explanation of minion groups against blast damage? Using the same soak 3 and wound threshold 4 as the OP. My understanding is a blast 5 against that group would do 5-3=2 damage to every minion in the group, correct? Regardless of how many minions are in the group. Basically a second identical blast would kill them all since they'd each have 2 wounds remaining.

Per the FAQ , " …each minion in the group would suffer the effects (such as the damage dealt by the Blast quality). If the effects inflict damage or strain, each minion reduces the damage or strain by soak if appropriate, and then the remainder is applied against the group’s combined wound threshold. (This makes the Blast quality terribly good against minion groups!) "

With your example, the minion group would take 5 damage per minion in the group (reduced by soak and increased by 1 per success). If there are four minions in the group, it would be total of 4 x 2 = 8 total damage (after soak). That's 8 damage to their combined WT, so with a WT4, that's one taken out and another minion with 1 wound remaining (remember that you have to exceed their WT to take them out).

At my table minions just KO at their WT. So a minion group of 4 where each has a WT of 5 has a group WT of 20.

My method is just write down 20 and subtract wounds as the group takes them. Every 5 wounds a minion would KO, at 20 wounds taken they're all KO'd.

I find this significantly easier and have been doing it since Star Wars.

That's not too far off of how RAW is. 4 minions with a WT of 5 means that at, RAW, the 6th, 11th, 16th and 21st wound a minion goes down. You're just reducing that by 1. No biggies and as long as it works for you!

21 hours ago, c__beck said:

Per the FAQ , " …each minion in the group would suffer the effects (such as the damage dealt by the Blast quality). If the effects inflict damage or strain, each minion reduces the damage or strain by soak if appropriate, and then the remainder is applied against the group’s combined wound threshold. (This makes the Blast quality terribly good against minion groups!) "

With your example, the minion group would take 5 damage per minion in the group (reduced by soak and increased by 1 per success). If there are four minions in the group, it would be total of 4 x 2 = 8 total damage (after soak). That's 8 damage to their combined WT, so with a WT4, that's one taken out and another minion with 1 wound remaining (remember that you have to exceed their WT to take them out).

Thanks for the clarification from the FAQ. I'm curious with your comment though that you have to exceed the threshold to take one out. So 8 damage reduces to 5 that actually gets through soak. 4 meets the WT, so one minion is taken out and the next one gets a wound. But if you have to exceed the wound threshold, wouldn't doing so absorb the 5th point? I know I'm kinda splitting hairs on that, but it's still awkward. Let's put it another way: if I only do 7 points of damage, and 3 gets soaked, does the 4 that gets through actually drop a minion? 4 meets the wound threshold, but it doesn't exceed it. But one more wound not only kills the first minion, but passes through and tags the second minion. That's a pretty fancy point of damage.

6 hours ago, Dragonshadow said:

if  I only do 7 points of damage, and 3 gets soaked, does the 4 that gets through actually drop a minion?

No, you need to exceed a targets WT to defeat it. Page 132 (bold added for emphasis, also note a street tough has a WT4): “… each time the total wounds suffered exceeds a group member's share of the group's wound threshold. For example, when the street tough group exceeds 4 wounds, one street tough is defeated. ”

3 hours ago, c__beck said:

No, you need to exceed a targets WT to defeat it. Page 132 (bold added for emphasis, also note a street tough has a WT4): “… each time the total wounds suffered exceeds a group member's share of the group's wound threshold. For example, when the street tough group exceeds 4 wounds, one street tough is defeated. ”

And the next street tough is wounded. That was kinda my real point. The magic wound kills one guy and sticks to the next one. Perhaps it’s grief that his buddy just got killed (since strain is a wound). Sorry, I kid, I kid. I understand the rule now, although it creates an odd situation.