On ‎12‎/‎1‎/‎2017 at 12:46 PM, 2P51 said:

Wound threshold does need to be exceeded. It's a little odd in the minion rules but it's technically RAW. It also is no big deal to ignore and not worry about the math quite that accurately.

I glanced at Genesys RAW (sorry closest book) and it does say "exceeds". But I also find it much easier to just cut one off each time the WT for the minion is met.

The "exceeds" rule for WT/ST has for some reason always been non-intuitive for me and those I've played with. Hold over from D&D? And/or easier to think, "I've taken 13 wounds and my WT is 13 so I'm incapacitated" then, "I've taken 13 wounds and my WT is 13 so I'm ok until 14 wounds?". Now, figure in needing to work with halves for wound level difficulties and you have to think, "WT 13, so 1/2 of that round down is 6, that needs to be exceeded for a Moderate injury, so back up to 7". It adds another small step of thought to use exceeds vs. meets in my opinion. Yes it's a small matter, but why do it unless there is a good reason? What's that reason?

I've thought about just house ruling it to make it what most people naturally think (strain or wounds meets ST or WT, incapacitated). Makes it easier for tracking Minions also. Any unforeseen problems if I do this for a new upcoming group other then effectively weakening everyone by 1 WT/ST?

I think it's primarily because they wanted the minion rule to parallel how Wounds work for PCs for the sakeof consistency. The problem is paired with the grouping rule it's very clunky I think so I don't bother. My table hasn't exploded yet....

Yeah understood. So what keeps us from doing the opposite and using "meets" instead of "exceeds" for WT and ST of non-minions? It could be easy and consistent for both if it's meets instead of exceeds. Why the importance of exceeds is what I'm trying to figure out? I would rather minions, PCs, any adversaries all use meets WT/ST instead of exceeds.

11 minutes ago, Sturn said:

Yeah understood. So what keeps us from doing the opposite and using "meets" instead of "exceeds" for WT and ST of non-minions? It could be easy and consistent for both if it's meets instead of exceeds. Why the importance of exceeds is what I'm trying to figure out? I would rather minions, PCs, any adversaries all use meets WT/ST instead of exceeds.

I'm reminded of old D&D armor class, which went from 10 (no armor) to 2 (Plate and shield). Powerful beings could continue the downward numeric AC progression all the way to -10. This was the rule for years, and I think Gygax thought it was intuitive. It took a couple editions for someone to say "hey, how 'bout everything that protects you ADDS to your AC and there's no upper limit?"

The "exceeds" threshold for Genesys isn't quite as bad as AD&D AC, but it's anything but intuitive. How many wounds can I take before I drop? It's the number printed on your sheet...ummm...plus one.

25 minutes ago, Sturn said:

Yeah understood. So what keeps us from doing the opposite and using "meets" instead of "exceeds" for WT and ST of non-minions? It could be easy and consistent for both if it's meets instead of exceeds. Why the importance of exceeds is what I'm trying to figure out? I would rather minions, PCs, any adversaries all use meets WT/ST instead of exceeds.

My (totally uninformed) guess is due to the word 'threshold'. Per Dictionary.com, it's " the magnitude or intensity that must be exceeded for a certain reaction, phenomenon, result, or condition to occur or be manifested. " In order for something to happen, you need to exceed the threshold. The threshold needs to be crossed in order for a thing to happen.

It's probably that D&D and many other games use a "meet or exceed" for things to happen: if you meet the DC, you succeed. If your HP is 0 (IE, damage taken meets max HP) you're incapacitated, etc.

But the maths of Genesys won't break if you use 'meet' instead of 'exceed'. And if that's the way you've been doing it and it works for your players, that's cool. Your table, your rules.

2 hours ago, c__beck said:

My (totally uninformed) guess is due to the word 'threshold'. Per Dictionary.com, it's " the magnitude or intensity that must be exceeded for a certain reaction, phenomenon, result, or condition to occur or be manifested. " In order for something to happen, you need to exceed the threshold. The threshold needs to be crossed in order for a thing to happen.

I noticed use of the term, but I guessed "threshold" came after designers went with exceeds . I don't believe they decided to pick the term threshold then made the rule around the term. They could have just as easily called the mechanics Wound Points and Strain Points and gone with meets . There has to be a reason they went with exceeds and thus thresholds, but I don't understand why. I've been around here since the Warhammer FFG edition was new and don't recall any reason being discussed.

There's a thought. I don't recall without having to dig out the books, but was Warhammer FFG using exceeds also? I believe so. Warhammer FFG had mechanics which were hold overs from the original Warhammer RPG . These were stripped during the jump to Star Wars FFG. Perhaps the use of exceeds/threshold began before Warhammer FFG and the designers didn't see a reason to change it while anchoring their new narrative system as a continuation of the original Warhammer RPG? I've got both old versions of Warhammer systems and Warhammer FFG at home, but no access now.