Oh **** - what about meishodo?

2 hours ago, Manchu said:

Oh **** - what about meishodo?

I mean, I guess? Maybe meishodo didn't live up to his expectations, so he was taking a stand against it and the collective meishodo wielding population voted to off him?

Not saying it's impossible, but there's definitely a lack of foreshadowing at this point to draw connections for this theory. And that's coming from a Phoenix who wanted to ban meishodo.

Let's not forget that Shiba Ujimitsu also "passed before his time" from causes unknown- although he apparently had time to compose a death poem. Interesting that there have been no overt rumblings of possible foul play there beyond the gossip of some miko Tsukune overheard. ****, his demise hasn't even been mentioned by anyone outside of Risen From the Flames , while Satsume and Arasou get named-dropped on the regular.

As it stands, the deaths of Arasou (nothing overtly fishy there), Ujimitsu and Satsume have caused almost half of the Great Clans to see leadership changes to less-experienced hands- neither Toturi nor Tsukune ever expected to become clan champions (and Tsukune's just a kid), while Hotaru has blind spots and insecurities of her own. The Unicorn narrowly avoided a similar leadership kerfluffle by breaking their agreement with the Lion- had Altansarnai not reneged, Shono would be the Unicorn Champion. The Scorpion, Crab, and Dragon are the only ones without any immediately obvious situations to place inexperienced hands on the tiller.

I think the reason that no-one's in a fuss over foul play for Ujimitsu amongst the players is that the characters aren't too worried.

Also that phrasing "passed before his time" sounds like a tragedy, rather than a murder: an accident or an explained illness as opposed to something unknown.

The idea of the Mantis being behind it reminded me of a 1E spell (and adventure seed) Suitengu's embrace: fill the target's lungs with seawater.

10 hours ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

Also that phrasing "passed before his time" sounds like a tragedy, rather than a murder: an accident or an explained illness as opposed to something unknown.

But that also seems to be the case with Satsume- there were sufficient grounds to not raise a stink. Kuwanan clearly thinks otherwise, but Hotaru's decision thus far not to pursue the matter indicates it wasn't the most clear-cut murder on record.

From the gleanings of Shizue from the Emerald magistrates investigating the matter:

“That Satsume’s death remains a complete mystery. He appears to have simply…died. That has, of course, led to all sorts of speculation among the rumormongers.”

Sounds to me like Ujimitsu and Satsume's deaths were of a kind.

Kuwana's only "evidence" seems to be that his father's death was "too sudden."

As you note, Ujimitsu composed a death poem. So the same reasoning, such as it is, doesn't apply.

Is it possible Ujimitsu had his death poem "tucked away" in the occurrence of his death, sorta like a will? Usually the only time I've heard of a death poem is before a samurai commits seppuku...

Death poems are generally composed by people who know they are about to die. So if Shiba Ujimitsu was murdered, the implication would be that he suspected he would be murdered. It seems more likely that Ujimitsu was dying, albeit at a relatively young age.

Granted, a death poem can be faked. Do we know if Ujimitsu suffered from any potentially lethal ailments in the old timeline?

5 minutes ago, Mangod said:

Do we know if Ujimitsu suffered from any potentially lethal ailments in the old timeline?

Spontaneous combustion?

Point is, both guys died for reasons nobody in this (scientifically illiterate and evidence-averse) society can figure out.

But one is apparently cause for "why aren't you tearing the Empire apart to find out what happened!" while the other is not.

While we don't know that Satsume didn't compose a death poem, we haven't heard anything about it- but that seems to be the only distinction between the two deaths we've been given thus far.

If Satsume composed a death poem, and it was found, we would certainly know about it. There would almost certainly be no question as to him dying naturally in that case. Now, perhaps he did compose such a poem and it was deliberately hidden in order to foster strife? That would be ironic for Hotaru, who is not investigating.

52 minutes ago, Manchu said:

If Satsume composed a death poem, and it was found, we would certainly know about it.

Would we? We never read Ujimitsu's, we just saw his brother holding it because we got to attend his funeral- and part of what the Phoenix debut did was set the stage for this very pious, ritual-oriented clan. We didn't attend Satsume's.

We were lead to believe that Ujimitsu "got younger" or at least less world weary, when Tsukune saw his spirit form. So it's likely he really was older and the comment about him dying "before it was his time" was just a polite saying that people tend to say at others' funerals.

4 hours ago, HirumaShigure said:

So it's likely he really was older and the comment about him dying "before it was his time" was just a polite saying that people tend to say at others' funerals.

Possibly, but since it was the gossip of temple maidens overheard prior to the funeral, I remain suspicious.

7 hours ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

But one is apparently cause for "why aren't you tearing the Empire apart to find out what happened!" while the other is not.

Well one was the Emerald Champion whereas the other was merely the Phoenix Champion. Maybe if it had been one of the Elemental Masters it would have garnered more attention.

ConsiderIng there have been attempts, successful or not to remove many heads of clans. Including the unsuccessful attempt to remove Alternasai from the Unicorn, that caused very pointed imperial disfavour, blocking of their motion by the Emperor himself. I think that the imperials are behind all of this, the scorpion are a misdirect. They will coup to stop the imperial plot and be viewed as the baddies.

The Imperial plot to ... what ends?

I'm hoping that, instead of one massive conspiracy by a single actor, it'll turn out to be a bunch of different Clans and factions whose plots have intersected, and have now gone off the rails.

2 hours ago, JolOfNar said:

I think that the imperials are behind all of this, the scorpion are a misdirect. They will coup to stop the imperial plot and be viewed as the baddies.

Why? The imperials are basically doing the Scorpion’s job, and meanwhile the Scorpion is almost untouched by all this turmoil. If anything, they should send the imperials a gift basket with a “Keep up the good work” note.

The Imperials and Scorpion have slightly different roles. Both scheme to turn the Great Clans against one another. But while the Imperials do this to safeguard their own relevance, the Scorpion do it for the sake of someone else (namely, the Emperor). In a sense, you could say that Kachiko has somewhat forgotten this. She seems to think that Scorpion ascendant is good for the Empire. Shoju, by contrast, understands that there is no necessary direct correlation between the good of the Empire and Scorpion's apparent influence.

On 06/12/2017 at 9:00 PM, Manchu said:

The Imperial plot to ... what ends?

Well. That courtier chap talking to Kachiko says how the clans are working together too much. There is a tendency to view the imperials as dupes in the all cunning scorpion scheme, what If the Hantei are cunning and ruthless. One by one they attempt to destabilise leadership in the clans, and cause strife.

Speculating, we then get this plot uncovered, by Kachiko/Toturi, he would be racked by indecision , she chooses to act to protect Shoju. From there you have the coup, and probably greater meaning to her quest for revenge- the coup wasn’t just a power grab.

Motive

This is actually a matter of two questions: Why would someone want to murder Doji Satsume? and Why would someone want to murder the Emerald Champion?

As to the first - Satsume was a harsh but well-respected man. We only know of two people who personally disliked him: his daughter Hotaru and his brother-in-law Toshimoko. Neither is a credible suspect.

As to the second - every Great Clan (other than Crane) as well as Mantis could hypothetically benefit from Crane losing influence at Court. Crane allies like Unicorn would have to weigh any hypothetical benefit against actual losses at Court, however. Lion and Scorpion stand to gain the most. Satsume rebuked Lion's claims on the Osari Plains. Satsume also likely stood between Kachiko and the Emperor. Yoritomo also risked having Mantis decreed outlaw by harassing Crane lands while a Crane served as Emerald Champion Moreover, what Clan would not wish to fill the vacant office after Satsume's demise.

However: the ambitions of the Clans are restrained by their honor. Murdering the Emerald Champion is a heinous act of treason. There are few in the Empire who would dare commit such a shameful crime.

Means

The corpse bears no signs pointing to the cause of death. The most likely means are thus poison and sorcery. The first points to Scorpion. Only Shosuro poisons are so subtle. The second implicates a wider circle of suspects. Merishodo is a possibility here, which would point to Unicorn.

Opportunity

This is a tough one as we don't know where Satsume died. The Emerald Champion travels widely in the course of his duties. If he died in Otosan Uchi, however, the murderer would have to deal with a considerable level of security to get to him, meaning it was likely someone he would have been in personal contact with or else a servant. We know from multiple examples that the servant class in the capital is riddled with spies and that Scorpion has a special appreciation for this strategy.

My gut instinct is that Kachiko did it, in a tangled mix of reducing Crane influence at court, eliminating someone in a position to manipulate Sotorii, and punishing the uncaring father of her lover...

I do totally want it to be natural causes, though.

Kachiko has motive, means, and opportunity. The only reason I don't suspect her is because she's such an obvious suspect!