Hey all!

After seeing so many brains buzzing with builds and lists after the Silencer article drop I decided to try and come up with something myself. This is an attempt at a competitive list and, while both are First Order ships and both have a Sith in them, do not think of it as a fluffy or casual list.

Kylo Ren TIE Silencer [46] PS9

• Push the Limit [3]
• Autothrusters [2]
• Advanced Sensors [3]
• Primed Thrusters [1]
• First Order Vanguard [2]

Major Stridan TIE Silencer [53] PS4

• Engine Upgrade [4]
• Fire Control System [2]
• Emperor Palpatine [8]
• Targeting Synchronizer [3]
• Advanced Optics [2]
• Kylo Ren's Shuttle [2]

[99/100]

I do have a point to play around with, so maybe I could change Kylo into a VI+FCS+Threat Tracker build?

My main idea for this list is to have Kylo dancing about doing his arc-dodging thing. Stridan would Focus on first turn to have it in his Focus Bank. He would shoot at a target and TL him and Kylo's target, that way Kylo can use the Synchroniser to use the TL to reroll dice, relying on the title until then. ISTDS would occur at some point (hopefully doing as little damage as possible. Which Palp can turn to a crit at some point?

Sounds good. My one observation with Targeting Synchroniser; if you have a target lock on a given opponent, Kylo is throwing 3 dice which he already gets a reroll on. Stridan is throwing 4. The Upsilon is much more than a pure support ship; it's the list's main 'big gun', and you'll need to throw it into the fight and draw a fair amount of aggression to get your moneys' worth compared to a cheaper, less capable lambda.

There may instead be an argument for giving the shuttle countermeasures for the same price; an extra green die, combined with the banked focus and palpatine, will cut the sting out of a missile alpha strike trying to take your support ship off the board in the opening engagement.

Having spent alot of time using the Upsilon I suggest swapping FCS for Advanced Sensors and Targeting Synch for Pattern Analyzer. Other good option is to use Electronic Baffle.

FCS looks nice on paper but due to lack of mobility and only a forward arc you end up taking 1 or maybe 2 shots in a game. Baffle and AS/PA lets you keep the Upsilon a bit more relevant.

This should be an effective list against the same things Whisper/Kylo Upsilon can handle. So basically, Dash/Poe, Rey/Miranda and other bad two ship lists but not much else.

I think your silencer build is probably going to be the buck standard while learning the ship, with maybe a few smatterings of FCS + pattern analyzer or sensor cluster as a side by jouster ala QD. FCS + threat tracker I don't think will be a lot of play early as it rewards good flying by allowing you the occasional repositioning fix while still maintaining at least a single reroll on your attacks, hopefully backed with a focus. But it punishes bad flying pretty hard. If you're constantly needing to readjust or can never get good arcs, you not only lose your TL for rerolls, but may not be able to activate FOV, might lack focus tokens in general from too much repositioning, and might end up screwing yourself out of possible actions if you boost or barrel roll during the activation phase and then can't do it again when your target activates for combat. VI does help mitigate that a bit, but it's overall not very friendly to the learning curve. PTL, FCS, Threat Tracker might be interesting when you can target lock a higher PS ship with FCS, boost into close range when it activates, push for a target lock then unleash **** on your turn and get a new lock from FCS after the fact. Would be a great ordnance dodging jouster in that scenario, but it'll take some play testing to see how effective it really is.

As for your wingman, the upsilon is probably the worst ship you can put into a 2 ship list. It's slow, bulky, maneuvers like a drunken walrus on rollerskates and you're basically paying half your squad points for 2ish probably strong shots and a palpatine. If you want a 2 ship list, I'd say go for a decimator, and for a 3 ship list, I'd say fit in a shuttle bomber for 20 ish points and throw in another 30ish ace. Double starwings with manglers has also been spitballed back and forth a bit and might actually work well to activate ISYTDS, but time will tell.

Hope some of that helped!

Thanks for the feedback all of you.

I like the countermeasures idea.

I see the Upsilon more as a support ship with teeth. It would be nice to shoot its 4 dice every turn, but it's there to target lock and give Kylo access to a reroll. The Silencer title is situational offensively, but I've blanked out too many times to not take it...its a 2 point safety net.

RAC would be a better ship for this pairing, but it's too expensive. RAC with Palp and VI is 55 pts...

Palp is probably the wrong choice on a decimator with a silencer. Rac with a mercenary copilot is getting a crit at every range, and you can target lock each round to really push those dice through. If only you could fit in EU and predator, you'd be set. It's not terribly important that RAC have a high PS since you can't hand out ISYTDS until after your opponent hits at Kylo, and you'll likely be handing out damaged cockpits instead of blinded pilots until Kylo is highest PS. It'll be tight on points, but I think you'll probably try something like:

• RAC (46)
  • Counter-Measures (3)
  • Adaptability +1 (0)
  • Merc Copilot (2)
  • Rebel Captive (3)

• Kylo (35)
  • Autothrusters (2)
  • First Order Vanguard (2)
  • PTL (3)
  • Adv Sensor (3)
  • Primed Thrusters (1)

Comes out to 100 pts. That gives you two PS 9 ships for flexibility, Kylo is a menace and you can keep the stress down pretty well and is relatively immune to stress lists. RAC hands out stress to shut down expertise aces if they shoot at him, can toss a crit most shots to activate ISYTDS if they hit kylo instead, and can shake a target lock to stagger that alpha strike. Bump with RAC when you can since he is still going to get focused first, but he should take out an ace or two and hopefully get an ISYTDS on anything thats left for kylo to face.

That list is pretty easy to adjust depending on what you're seeing in your local meta. No stress lists? Drop primed thrusters for VI, a bid or combine for more upgrades. Takes a little practice, but it's not hard to keep him stress free and get his actions each round. Fighting more turrets than ordnance? Drop counter measures. Gives you points for VI and Sensor Cluster or, if you also dropped PT, EU for more defense or range control. Strap on a Hotshot Copilot if you're seeing a lot of focus stacking.

3 hours ago, Glyph said:

Thanks for the feedback all of you.

I like the countermeasures idea.

I see the Upsilon more as a support ship with teeth. It would be nice to shoot its 4 dice every turn, but it's there to target lock and give Kylo access to a reroll. The Silencer title is situational offensively, but I've blanked out too many times to not take it...its a 2 point safety net.

RAC would be a better ship for this pairing, but it's too expensive. RAC with Palp and VI is 55 pts...

I'm going to wholeheartedly agree with the others here looking at your neat idea; the Walrus isn't a member of a good two ship list. If you want to run an Upsilon, get lots of cheap ships in around him as his guns might go off a few times (and they're great), but not enough to pay for them. However, paired with matching PS TIE/FO's or TLT TIE Aggressors, or TIE/SFs, or TIE Strikers could be fun and a lot better in the long run getting wins....still a pint game I'd wager though.

However, as @Jimbawa has stated --as the obvious if you follow posts into the idea of Kylo's TIE Silencer wingmate ideas-- RAC seems to be the top choice. Heck, RAC is the top choice for any Imp 2 ship list....maybe the only choice sadly.

I like @Thormind 's idea he flipped up on the board very recently. It puts angry Kylo flying with his angrier grandfather in a very dark list:

I would consider boosting Primed Thrusters up to PA, otherwise Kylo is great.

However, I'm not convinced that the Upsilon is a viable second ship. Kylo doesn't really need a supporter, he needs a viable wingmate, and the upsilon is not that. I would agree with the suggestions to consider a Deci build.

PA and Adv Sensors? That's a bit overkill. PA would work better with FCS (where you could consider dropping the title to save points) or with collision detector.

27 minutes ago, Jimbawa said:

PA and Adv Sensors? That's a bit overkill. PA would work better with FCS (where you could consider dropping the title to save points) or with collision detector.

IMO advanced sensor alone with no tech upgrade is enough. We really want to keep this ship at a reasonable cost.

1 minute ago, Thormind said:

IMO advanced sensor alone with no tech upgrade is enough. We really want to keep this ship at a reasonable cost.

I think advanced sensors will definitely be the popular choice, between PTL and that amazing dial. I think you certainly could run without a tech, based on your meta. If you aren't seeing stress builds, you probably won't need PT and if you aren't eating a lot of 4 and 5 die attacks, you won't need sensor cluster for the extra defense insurance. It just becomes a question of what use can you put those points towards?

2 hours ago, clanofwolves said:

I like @Thormind 's idea he flipped up on the board very recently. It puts angry Kylo flying with his angrier grandfather in a very dark list:

Rear Admiral Chiraneau — VT-49 Decimator	46
Veteran Instincts	1
Kylo Ren	3
Rebel Captive	3
Darth Vader	3
Engine Upgrade	4
Ship Total: 60
Test Pilot "Blackout" — TIE Silencer	31
Veteran Instincts	1
Advanced Sensors	3
Autothrusters	2
First Order Vanguard	2
Ship Total: 39

Interesting! Though I question why Vader is there. I know that his ability doesn't proc ISYTDS as it occurs AFTER an attack...is he just there as another source of pain, or does it synergise with another upgrade?

Here's a hypothetical question...We all have seen the recent regionals and other big events. What would you say is the current meta? How would you equip a Silencer if you were going to an international tournament next week and all you had to go off regarding information is what lists have been in the Top8 of other major events?

11 minutes ago, Glyph said:

Interesting! Though I question why Vader is there. I know that his ability doesn't proc ISYTDS as it occurs AFTER an attack...is he just there as another source of pain, or does it synergise with another upgrade?

Here's a hypothetical question...We all have seen the recent regionals and other big events. What would you say is the current meta? How would you equip a Silencer if you were going to an international tournament next week and all you had to go off regarding information is what lists have been in the Top8 of other major events?

Will, Kylo's old grandfather is still an Ace killer and surely retards their company on the mat, and I love Rebel Captive on any Imp ride, period. Now Kylo hasn't really become my bag as I don't own a Upsilon, but he sure is a historical hard-counter to two ship builds, and those are very popular still, so it seems that RAC has lots of synergies and has a toolbox with a serious 1, 2, 3 punch beyond her swivel gun mounted to that upgraded engine. Better plastic pilots than I may be able to tell you exactly how the Silencer will do in comparison to RAC's usual sidekicks of Whisper, Vader, Quickdraw, Soontir; but I have a feeling they'll be solid at the least and might just be the top dog (the Mouse hopes it will be...for sales generation of course) but I'd ask experts like Tippet for he'll be flying the mess out of that uber-upgraded RAC he has post the last FAQ.

The current meta is going to be in flux mode come Thursday, so man, its anyone's call. What's good will still be so though; the likes of Miranda, Dash, Asajj, Dengar, Quickdraw, Lowhhrick, etc. Now how these new ships will figure in, displace or lag behind the current powers are to be determined and hypotheticals are a fun fools errand. I certainly am not qualified to guess; but if I had to, I'd still say Miranda will be the best ship after the Wave invasion settles out.

3 hours ago, clanofwolves said:

I like @Thormind 's idea he flipped up on the board very recently. It puts angry Kylo flying with his angrier grandfather in a very dark list:

Rear Admiral Chiraneau — VT-49 Decimator	46
Veteran Instincts	1
Kylo Ren	3
Rebel Captive	3
Darth Vader	3
Engine Upgrade	4
Ship Total: 60
Test Pilot "Blackout" — TIE Silencer	31
Veteran Instincts	1
Advanced Sensors	3
Autothrusters	2
First Order Vanguard	2
Ship Total: 39

What about perhaps changing Rebel Captive with Mercenary Copilot. That way you'll be getting a crit at all 3 range bands and also have a 2pt bid rather than a 1pt

7 hours ago, Glyph said:

Interesting! Though I question why Vader is there. I know that his ability doesn't proc ISYTDS as it occurs AFTER an attack...is he just there as another source of pain, or does it synergise with another upgrade?

Here's a hypothetical question...We all have seen the recent regionals and other big events. What would you say is the current meta? How would you equip a Silencer if you were going to an international tournament next week and all you had to go off regarding information is what lists have been in the Top8 of other major events?

Vader is there for the " 1 hull left on that annoying ship better kill it before it attacks" moment. Everytime i've paired him with RAC he always ends up doing some nice work.

The meta is in a weird spot at the moment because it's still defining itself. We just had a major FAQ and not much events since then to allow it to develop properly. With the arrival of 5 xpac on the same day, things are bound to get shaken up even more. Exciting times :-)

Normally i use this as a pretty good picture but i believe the meta need to mature a little more before we get reliable results: http://meta-wing.com/ship_combos?ranking_start=2017-11-06&ranking_end=2017-12-01&large_tournament_multiplier=true&widespread_use_multiplier=true&use_ranking_data=all&tournament_type=&

I really hope things are going to change because the Scurrg and the Gunship are in 70% of the top 10 builds...

13 hours ago, Glyph said:

Thanks for the feedback all of you.

I like the countermeasures idea.

I see the Upsilon more as a support ship with teeth. It would be nice to shoot its 4 dice every turn, but it's there to target lock and give Kylo access to a reroll. The Silencer title is situational offensively, but I've blanked out too many times to not take it...its a 2 point safety net.

RAC would be a better ship for this pairing, but it's too expensive. RAC with Palp and VI is 55 pts...

I've used an Upsilon build with Major Stridan and FCS, Hux, Gunner, and the title. It died fairly fast (they always do...), but the gunner combo was terrifying. And Hux automatically makes it a decent support ship, so.... it's not ideal, but the ship can be used offensively primarily.

After all your comments, here's an updated pair of lists, each with a Decimator but one with Blackout and one with Kylo:

Rear Admiral Chiraneau VT-49 Decimator [PS9] [46]
Adapability [0]
Mercenary Copilot [2]
Rebel Captive [3]
Darth Vader [3]
Ship total : 54

Kylo Ren TIE Silencer [PS9] [35]
Push the Limit [3]
Autothrusters [2]
Fire Control Systems [2]
Primed Thrusters [1]
First Order Vanguard [2]
Ship total : 45
List total : 99

Rear Admiral Chiraneau VT-49 Decimator [PS10] [46]
Veteran Instincts [1]
Engine Upgrade [4]
Mercenary Copilot [2]
Kylo Ren [3]
Darth Vader [3]
Ship total : 59

Test Pilot "Blackout" TIE Silencer [PS9] [31]
Veteran Instincts [1]
Autothrusters [2]
Advanced Sensors [3]
Primed Thrusters [1]
First Order Vanguard [2]
Ship total : 40
List total : 99

I'm not sure what list I prefer...I'm thinking the second list as the Engine Upgrade gives the option to blast out of the action if things get too hot and time is coming to a close, or if you want to skim the edges of the mat and pot shots at range 3 (which you can still use Kylo at and still get a critical hit at thanks to MercCopilot). I'd kill to be able to put Engine upgrade on RAC in the first list but where the heck do you get 4 points from? Merc Copilot and the Silencer title? Would it be a worthwhile trade?

I'd like to know if with threat tracker and PTL you can use it more than once in a single round. You lock on a ship as your action in the activation phase, then in the attack phase you use Threat Tracker and boost towards other ship that hasn't attacked yet and with PTL you lock on it, and when it activates in the attack this same round you use it again.

Is this correct?

7 minutes ago, "Quickdraw" said:

I'd like to know if with threat tracker and PTL you can use it more than once in a single round. You lock on a ship as your action in the activation phase, then in the attack phase you use Threat Tracker and boost towards other ship that hasn't attacked yet and with PTL you lock on it, and when it activates in the attack this same round you use it again.

Is this correct?

I don't think you can. If you use Threat Tracker, you spend your Target Lock to Boost or Barrel Roll. If you then use PTL, you'd be given a stress to take a second Target Lock. When it comes time to attempt Threat Tracker again, you CAN spend the Target Lock, but you're stressed and cannot perform the Boost or Barrel Roll and unfortunately, Primed Thrusters would replace Threat Tracker.

Long-story-short, the card itself does not restrict you to a once-per-round use, but circumstances make it nigh impossible to use it a second time (unless I'm missing some out-of-this-world and unique upgrade interaction somewhere)!

You're right thanks, hadn't thought that.

PTL and threat tracker, preferably with FCS would look something like: Perform an attack to get a target lock off FCS, next round perform your maneuver and action as normal. If your opponent has a higher PS, spend your target lock to use threat tracker and do either a boost or barrel roll. After your attack, acquire a new target lock off FCS. If that target has a lower PS or at least activates after you did, you could spend your target lock with threat tracker to boost or barrel roll (whichever you didn't do earlier) and push for a new target lock. At this point, you're stressed, but you've performed both a boost and barrel roll this round so there's no reason to try and activate it a third time, but you're set up to do it again next round. It's a little silly, but is pretty easy to do with a silencer, or even a tie/sf if you wanted EU instead of LWF for some strange reason.

As a terrible, hare brained scheme, what about using this on Kylo in an upsilon? Give him EU so he can boost then use push to coordinate and grant another one of your ships any action they can. Bad idea or worst idea ever?

On 12/1/2017 at 5:09 PM, Jimbawa said:

As a terrible, hare brained scheme, what about using this on Kylo in an upsilon? Give him EU so he can boost then use push to coordinate and grant another one of your ships any action they can. Bad idea or worst idea ever?

I'm not sure I understood it but threat tracker reads small ship only.

1 hour ago, "Quickdraw" said:

I'm not sure I understood it but threat tracker reads small ship only.

I dont think he was talking in regards to threat tracker, he can use engine upgrade and PTL. I don't see anything about threat tracker

It was thinking about using threat tracker with the upsilon, I got caught up in the what ifs and looked over that part of it.

Sorry only read the bottom bit, "Quickdraw" has a point sorry.