The base ship builds are listed in the OP.

1.) Which ship wins in a head-to-head fight?

2.) Which ship wins vs the field?

3.) What upgrades/wingman do you take to mitigate your bad matchups?

1) PS11 Darth Vader

2) PS11 Darth Vader

3) PS11 Darth Vader

FFG went completely thematic on this one.

Kylo Ren looks cool sure, but he will NEVER be as good as his grandfather flown by a decent player.

2 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Kylo Ren looks cool sure, but he will NEVER be as good as his grandfather flown by a decent player.

I don't think that's true. Autothrusters, one more hit point, system, tech....

10 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

I don't think that's true. Autothrusters, one more hit point, system, tech....

Yea your right.....his harpoon/cruise missiles should keep it sorta close but Autothrusters is a real difference maker in that matchup.

And of course Vader probably immediatly sees a PS0 after the initial engagement.

Its still going to be thematically satisfying to destroy Kylo Silencer with Vader every now and then and it certainly puts some pressure on PS9 Kylo since something else at PS11 is likely with Vader.

1) I honestly don't know. I'd lean towards the PtL/Adv Sensors Kylo because there are so many places the VI/FCS Kylo can't go, but moving afterwards with boost and barrel roll is really powerful in that head to head.

2) Vs the field, I think PtL/Adv Sensors even with PS10/11s out there is too helpful with action economy (we saw how even a nerfed Attanni did recently) although the VI/FCS could still do very well. If flown right the Title can help with the lack of FCS help.

3) PtL/AdvSensors Kylo partnered with a cheap RAC with VI,Engine,Vader Crew might be his best to just kill opposing higher PS aces to let Kylo win the rest of the game. I've thought about 2 Cannon Gunboats for higher damage output. I haven't really looked at the VI/FCS Kylo partners yet.

Question though, are we thinking the VI/FCS Kylo has the new Threat Tracker?

1. Considering that PTL Kylo can't take the Evade Action, and can't really arc-dodge a PS11 Kylo that hasn't moved yet, my hunch is that, even with only one action, PS11 Kylo will be able to arc-dodge enough + FCS that he will get some devastating Rng 1 shots with FCS to make PS9 Kylo sad. It's a close call, and on any given day, PTL Kylo could certainly win, but I have to give edge to VI/FCS Kylo (although, if PTL Kylo brings it to time, he's more expensive).

2. This is trickier and depends on meta. If there are alot of high PS running around, I'd rather have VI Kylo (and maybe, just maybe put the new tech on him to gain that extra action to arc-dodge during the combat phase), but in a more PS 'calm' meta, I think the PTL/AdvS will be pretty powerful. The biggest weakness for VI Kylo that PTL Kylo doesn't have is the threat of bumping. While FCS mitigates the offensive side of that, without a Focus, he will die pretty quick. So if bumping returns, then PTL would be better. However, right now, the meta is much more into stress, which VI Kylo wins (especially if he has Primed Thrusters). So, again, I have to give the edge to VI/FCS Kylo.

3. I suppose there's a bunch, but if Aces come back, I imagine RAC will be a great wingman (whose action is now freed up because Kylo is on another ship). I suppose the weakness is that the enemy would target RAC and try to burn him down, but if you trade RAC for most of their squad, then Kylo can pretty much dance his way to time or the last kill. It will be the first wingman I'll try, at least.

6 minutes ago, RStan said:

Question though, are we thinking the VI/FCS Kylo has the new Threat Tracker?

I'm firmly at maybe. The thing that PS 11 Kylo has going for it is that FCS+Autos make him a cool 40 points, which lets you take 3 real ships, and 3 points for Threat Tracker starts eating into your 3rd ship pretty hard.

For 3, I've heard people wanting to try two HLC gunboats or two Delta Defenders. Worth a shot.

11 minutes ago, SirCormac said:

For 3, I've heard people wanting to try two HLC gunboats or two Delta Defenders. Worth a shot.

Something like this?

Kylo Ren (TIE Silencer) (35)
Push the Limit (3)
Advanced Sensors (3)
Primed Thrusters (1)
Autothrusters (2)

Nu Squadron Pilot (18)
Linked Battery (2)
Heavy Laser Cannon (7)
Long-Range Scanners (0)
XG-1 Assault Configuration (1)

Nu Squadron Pilot (18)
Linked Battery (2)
Heavy Laser Cannon (7)
Long-Range Scanners (0)
XG-1 Assault Configuration (1)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

I'm gonna put all my money on Kylo Ren FTW.

I know jack about flying Imperials, but these are my guesses...

1.) Which ship wins in a head-to-head fight? - VI/FCS. I'd rather move last.

2.) Which ship wins vs the field? VI/FCS for the same reasons. I think there'll be a lot of high PS out there.

3.) What upgrades/wingman do you take to mitigate your bad matchups? This is the part where I just kinda of shrug, because I don't fly Imperials. This seems good, though...? I really don't know.

Kylo Ren (TIE Silencer) (35)
Adaptability (0)
Advanced Sensors (3)
Primed Thrusters (1)
Autothrusters (2)
First Order Vanguard (2)

The Inquisitor (25)
Push the Limit (3)
Autothrusters (2)
TIE/v1 (1)

"Omega Leader" (21)
Juke (2)
Comm Relay (3)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

PTL/AS

due simply to games going to time

I also just dont see single-action Ren being a threat and I think the title is pretty good, which furthers me from FCS

1.) FCS-VI, moves last, shoots first, simple as that.

2.) Adv.-PtL, with an intel agent, all the "negatives" of PS9 are negated. Plus, pre-nerf decloak is nice

3.) Someone with intel agent, Whisper or Skinny RAC? Palp is also appreciated.

I actually think this will be very good.

also in the head to head vi vs ptl, ptl would win because the first crit I am placing with ISYTDS is Damaged Cockpit. Once PS 11 goes to PS 0 I am arc dodging all day, and in the fight of ps0 vs ps0 i will take the more action efficient ship over the ship with basically 1 action.

With Kylo I want to proc the Crits so this is what I would run.

17 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

I also just dont see single-action Ren being a threat and I think the title is pretty good, which furthers me from FCS

Eh, I'm not in love with the title. The offensive boost is very situational and only works if there is only one ship in your arc. Note it is not just an enemy, even a friendly ship shuts down the reroll. The defensive ability is okay, but it forces a reroll of all of your dice, and is only usable once per game.

Overall I find it to be a clunky and awkward title, and I am baffled that they made it Unique.

The title is crap far as im concerned. If i have 2pts to spare, sure why not.

2pts for a perk that might as well ONLY exist when its down to 1on1 is kinda bs. Especially on a ship that for 2pts gets FCS and can wheel around to keep hitting the same guy with ease.
Discard half of it is also stupid. Its only a one-shot reroll for utter blanked out dice since you must reroll ALL green dice if you use it, not just the bad ones.

Whats weirder, its unique. Why is a unique title so trashy?

The answer is probably the same as the answer of who wins in the comparable Corran vs Corran battle.

46 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:

Eh, I'm not in love with the title. The offensive boost is very situational and only works if there is only one ship in your arc. Note it is not just an enemy, even a friendly ship shuts down the reroll. The defensive ability is okay, but it forces a reroll of all of your dice, and is only usable once per game.

Overall I find it to be a clunky and awkward title, and I am baffled that they made it Unique.

Guess it depends on your experience

For me, two ship lists are generally soul crushing turret nonsense and you will NEVER have more than one ship in arc

And ofc green dice fail spectacularly, but I doubt the reroll will Help much there

I think the title is one of the better upgrades in the pack. You'll want it with Adv. Sen silencers (which I think will be better) to get that re-roll if you don't have that lock. I look at it as a poor man's predator for 2 points. The discarding and rerolling evade dice is just a bonus. Over the course of a tournament, its going to save your butt somewhere. Well worth the price in my opinion.

I wouldn't even say "poor man's predator"

Against anything that isn't a post biggs blob, it just IS predator that leaves you free to ptl

1.) Kylo (any build will do). Just a better ship with better upgrades.

2.) Neither. Turrets.

3.) RAC, some FOs and SFs, or an Upsilon

14 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

Guess it depends on your experience

For me, two ship lists are generally soul crushing turret nonsense and you will NEVER have more than one ship in arc

And ofc green dice fail spectacularly, but I doubt the reroll will Help much there

The big issue is that the title has anti-synergy with itself. You're far more likely to trigger the offensive reroll in the late game, when there are fewer ships left on the board. On the other hand, you are more likely to have discarded the title by the later game as you will have been subjected to more attacks in the early game when there are more ships on the board and as a function of time.

It's an anti two ship list card, that works best when flown in a two ship list. It's okay, but I don't see equipping this unless I have no other use for the two points.

2 hours ago, Biophysical said:

The base ship builds are listed in the OP.

1.) Which ship wins in a head-to-head fight?

2.) Which ship wins vs the field?

3.) What upgrades/wingman do you take to mitigate your bad matchups?

1) I think it's pretty much even. They're going to be dodging each other's arcs pretty evenly; VI Kylo can arc-dodge with his higher pilot skill, but PtL Kylo is just too unpredicatable to consistently pin down. On turns where they joust, both have focus + TL. The PS 11 probably has a slight advantage since he can trigger Blinded Pilots, but without guaranteed crits that's not a huge deal.

2) PtL. The sheer action efficiency and maneuverability is more than enough to make up for the lost PS, although I think VI Kylo will still have a spot as a high PS wingman to other aces.

3) I see four main options. You can do Palp + Kylo + Omega, which is just a really solid list with confusing target priority. PS 10+ is a weakness, but not an insurmountable one, especially with ISTYDS in play. Alternatively, you could do Kylo + two fillers, which could be TLTs (helps against Vader and Quickdraw), Strikers, Omega, or some combination thereof. Personally, I think Sabaac, Omega, and Kylo would make a nasty list (again, with confusing target priority). Strikers make great blockers for PS 11 aces. You could also do Kylo and a Deci, but you're slim on points for the Deci, and I'm not convinced Oicunn's ram or Vader crew will be enough of a counter to those tricky PS 11 ships . . . .

And then you've got the last option, which I'm halfway convinced is just the best: Kylo, Vader, and a massive bid. Vader moves last against absolutely anything; he hunts whatever Kylo can't hunt. Once that's done, Kylo steps in and cleans up.

1 hour ago, HolySorcerer said:

Eh, I'm not in love with the title. The offensive boost is very situational and only works if there is only one ship in your arc. Note it is not just an enemy, even a friendly ship shuts down the reroll. The defensive ability is okay, but it forces a reroll of all of your dice, and is only usable once per game.

Overall I find it to be a clunky and awkward title, and I am baffled that they made it Unique.

After having tried it out, I think the title is actually really useful. You get the reroll fairly often (although not as often as I thought, since friendly ships count toward being in your arc), and it gives you the flexibility to switch targets (which TL doesn't). And after being saved by discarding the title, I'm pretty well sold. All those times your OG Soontir rolled five blanks? Not a problem anymore.

Kylo Ren (TIE Silencer) (35)
Push the Limit (3)
Advanced Sensors (3)
Primed Thrusters (1)
Autothrusters (2)
First Order Vanguard (2)

"Whisper" (32)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Fire-Control System (2)
Rebel Captive (3)
Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

Total: 88

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Against someone who out PSes Whisper, Kylo goes in first, damaging cockpits so whisper can go to town.

If PTL kylo gets the ps 0 crit first, then its "game,set,match". If they both be PS0, then whoever has the lower bid, and that would be VI kylo being cheaper.

The problem with PTL/Adv Sensors Kylo is that he has no evade token to turtle up. And his maneuvers get him where he wants, but not where he knows the enemy (VI Kylo) is going. FCS and a focus are gonna hit a lot harder than a focus and a b-roll. The fight happens when VI Kylo wants, not when Adv Sensors Kylo wants.

2) I think PTL wins vs the field. He can keep safe from all but hopefully one attack from the PS 10+ ship, then hopefully get the PS0 crit through and then reign **** on all lower than thou.

3) I really like the idea of Palp and OL. OL with juke and Palps crit can really set off IWSYTDS on just about anybody.