14 minutes ago, The Jabbawookie said:

These are all good points, and true ones. But overall this sounds a little bit like “The weakness is that it’s not the strongest in a specific area.” (Midrange skirmisher, maybe?) Being very good at everything with the same cost efficiency as the CR90 is, I think, a pretty amazing spot to be in. That said, I wasn’t being entirely serious originally; I believe risk is the weakness of ISDs in general. They represent a huge consolidation of points, and will cost you at least a third of your fleet when they go down.

Then I was unclear. The ISD-2 is not as efficient as the CR90, because it can do more things than the CR90. The flipside is that in order to use the ISD-2 for only one task, you are giving up enormous opportunity cost, both measured in real fleet points and possible other alternatives, both in upgrade suites for that ship or for choosing a different ship that might give up that multi-role flexibility, but instead becomes the specialist you desire. Certainly its enormous cost is a tactical threat, but so is wasting its capability foolishly in the building phase by not allowing yourself to get full value from the ship's points.

Key Weaknesses:

• CR-90 - Fragility
• Neb-B - Side arcs
• AF - Not great at anything, medium ship
• Home One - Slow
• MC-30 - Glass Cannon, not very flexible
• Liberty - Side Arcs
• Pelta - Slow, low firepower for cost
• GR-75 - what guns?
• Hammerhead - ??? (it's main strength is cost/titles)

• VSD - poor turning, medium ship
• GSD - lack of range
• ISD - Cost, frequently game over when lost
• Raider - Range, fragility
• Interdictor - low firepower/durability for cost
• Arquitens - weird turning, no brace
• Gozanti - more expensive than the GR-75
• Quasar - fragile, lack of firepower

Honestly without those weaknesses, the ships would be less interesting and the game weaker.

The Hammerhead has the same weakness as the CR-90, fragility. It has 1 more hull, but 2 fewer shields, and since both defensive suites include a redirect, those missing shields are problematic.

10 minutes ago, shmitty said:

Key Weaknesses:

• CR-90 - Fragility
• Neb-B - Side arcs
• AF - Not great at anything, medium ship
• Home One - Slow
• MC-30 - Glass Cannon, not very flexible
• Liberty - Side Arcs
• Pelta - Slow, low firepower for cost
• GR-75 - what guns?
• Hammerhead - ??? (it's main strength is cost/titles)

• VSD - poor turning, medium ship
• GSD - lack of range
• ISD - Cost, frequently game over when lost
• Raider - Range, fragility
• Interdictor - low firepower/durability for cost
• Arquitens - weird turning, no brace
• Gozanti - more expensive than the GR-75
• Quasar - fragile, lack of firepower

It's interesting to me that a few rebel ships are generally slower than their counterparts or equivalents (HMC80, Pelta, HH) or should be flown slower (nebs, AF in my experience). I'm not sure what that SAYS, but it's interesting

18 minutes ago, geek19 said:

slower than their counterparts or equivalents (HMC80, Pelta, HH) or should be flown slower (nebs, AF in my experience)

It is interesting, but also worth noting that that's 5/9 where the Rebel is slower than the Imperial counterpart. On the other hand, the Imps lose on 4/8:

VSD vs AF2
GSD vs MC30
Arq vs CR90
INT vs Lib (not sure what to compare it to, so maybe less applicable if you compare the Pelta)

So, pretty close to 50/50, depending how you slice it.

Of course, if you tractor beam and Slice it, it can't speed back up. I got jokes!

Efficient and Effective are different words with different meanings.

"As effective as a CR90", does not mean the same as, "As efficient as a CR90"

I agree that the ship weakness are a major part of what makes the game. Most of the strategy of the game centers around building something into your list that it does extremely well, with the idea of creating a mismatch between your fleet and your opponent's fleet, and then abusing that mis-match to win the match. The best part of having at least some weaknesses is that you also have some strengths, and it is much easier to take a ship like the MC30, which has an extreme weakness in hull, but extreme strengths in shields, title, and damage, and then build a fleet around it, than it is to take something that is fairly general.

In the case of ships that are not often taken, the problem is often that their strengths are not extreme enough. For example, take the AFII-A. I've seen one on the board in extremely competitive play, and although I've gotten good use out of one before, I'm disappointed in the consistency. Your ideal situation there is that you're getting a shot on both arcs, preferably double-arc on the same target, but at least two arc shots on different targets. This same problem is also the problem of the Interdictor, which adds another combat die. Contrast this with all the front-loaded dice in an ISD arc, where you literally just have to learn to fly an ISD to bear its front arc, or an Ackbar MC80 firing a heavy broadside. You're not missing much firepower from the missing arcs, but you miss about half your firepower if you're not double-arcing on an AFII-A or Interdictor. This isn't to say that you couldn't come up with a fire activation list with the AFII-A or an Interdictor that used ET to help it position for double-arcs, but the amount of effort it takes to do so versus other options that work equally well tilts builds away from using both units.

Beyond that, as long as a ship has one thing that it can do extremely well, one can find a way to fly it to minimize the key weaknesses and/or choose to live with them.

It's deceptive to say the Liberty and Neb-B both have side arcs as a problem, because their actually issues are far more nuanced.

The problem with the Neb-B isn't that it's side arcs are crap, it's that they're huge. If it had the flat x arcs of an ISD, even with identical stats, the ship would be far better. My issue when trying to use it as a frontline ship always boils down to how hard, even when directly pointing at the enemy fleet, it is to keep them from getting shots on your sides. It's actually pretty ridiculous especially because, from a practical standpoint, it's silhouette is tiny head on which should make its side arcs small, not gigantic.

The Liberty has a different problem and that's the mix of weaker side arcs and never having native clicks on the 2 speed of the ruler. For me, this is the reason why it suffers, is not because it's sides are that hard to mitigate, but that it requires constantly burning commands to do so. The clunkiness of the ships maneuvers exacerbate what would actually be a pretty reasonable and not insurmountable weakness.

Honestly, if you just replaced the Neb-B's tile with one that's less crap and added a single click to the 2 speed slots on the liberty, they both become instantly far more playable. I could ramble on a lot more, but...I don't want to

2 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

The problem with the Neb-B isn't that it's side arcs are crap, it's that they're huge. If it had the flat x arcs of an ISD, even with identical stats, the ship would be far better. My issue when trying to use it as a frontline ship always boils down to how hard, even when directly pointing at the enemy fleet, it is to keep them from getting shots on your sides. It's actually pretty ridiculous especially because, from a practical standpoint, it's silhouette is tiny head on which should make its side arcs small, not gigantic.

Bolded for my emphasis. Don't do that, it wants to stay near the back. Salvation is great if you treat it like a long range artillery cannon, existing to shoot 3-pointers FROM DOWNTOWN, NBA Jam style. Keeping it near the front is how it gets killed. Similary for Yavaris, it wants to be near its fighters, but it doesn't want to be right in the thick of things if it can help it.

Just now, MasterShake2 said:

It's actually pretty ridiculous especially because, from a practical standpoint, it's silhouette is tiny head on which should make its side arcs small, not gigantic.

3 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

The clunkiness of the ships maneuvers exacerbate what would actually be a pretty reasonable and not insurmountable weakness.

Totally agree with everything except these. Pretty sure the shields are meant to represent the Neb's midsection looking fragile as heck; in fact, one got blown in half in Rogue One.

As for LMC80s, your point might be generally true, but Madine makes them sing. I played once vs a dual Liberty A-wing list commanded by @Ardaedhel, and the turns they got off were incredible. It was extremely difficult to predict where they would end up on any given round. It's like the Rebel counterpart of Jerry and Vics, except Vics don't go speed 4 with ET.

Just now, The Jabbawookie said:

Totally agree with everything except these. Pretty sure the shields are meant to represent the Neb's midsection looking fragile as heck; in fact, one got blown in half in Rogue One.

As for LMC80s, your point might be generally true, but Madine makes them sing. I played once vs a dual Liberty A-wing list commanded by @Ardaedhel, and the turns they got off were incredible. It was extremely difficult to predict where they would end up on any given round. It's like the Rebel counterpart of Jerry and Vics, except Vics don't go speed 4 with ET.

I'm fine with the midsection being fragile, I'm not fine with it being so big

And yes, Madine can make the Liberty's more agile, but I never said you couldn't mitigate the sides, just that it requires spamming nav commands which madine only slightly helps with the ability to use a token to add a click. My biggest problem with them with Madine was that it rarely felt safe to start turning on engineering commands to repair like I would with most other ships late game as it risked exposing itself even more.

It's not that I can't use either of this ships, I've won tournaments with both of them, but with their issues, it's usually just easier to run something else.

18 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

And yes, Madine can make the Liberty's more agile, but I never said you couldn't mitigate the sides, just that it requires spamming nav commands which madine only slightly helps with the ability to use a token to add a click. My biggest problem with them with Madine was that it rarely felt safe to start turning on engineering commands to repair like I would with most other ships late game as it risked exposing itself even more.

It's not that I can't use either of this ships, I've won tournaments with both of them, but with their issues, it's usually just easier to run something else.

The Liberty lives by its Nav commands. Nav is offense. Nav is defense. Although in some match-ups, I'll dial up multiple ENG commands, I usually find it safe to do one. In most match-ups, if I need more, something else has probably gone wrong in the engagement, and that something else is the thing that needs fixing. I think I fell in love with the Liberty because I'd started using MC30s a lot about 3 months prior to its release and for a couple of months after its release, and I still have one in my Madine list. The principle is really the same. The real problem with Engineer is the survivability value: The Liberty has 18 total health between hull and shields. That's 5 under the MC80HO and ISD, and it is tied with the AFII, Interdictor, and VSD. That means for as many points as typically go on it, it is weak overall. So the two things you really don't want: 1. Protracted Slug-fests (you don't have the survivability) 2. Lots of small piddly shots (no ship really likes those though).

5 hours ago, shmitty said:

Key Weaknesses:

• CR-90 - Fragility
• Neb-B - Side arcs
• AF - Not great at anything, medium ship
• Home One - Slow
• MC-30 - Glass Cannon, not very flexible
• Liberty - Side Arcs
• Pelta - Slow, low firepower for cost
• GR-75 - what guns?
• Hammerhead - ??? (it's main strength is cost/titles)

• VSD - poor turning, medium ship
• GSD - lack of range
• ISD - Cost, frequently game over when lost
• Raider - Range, fragility
• Interdictor - low firepower/durability for cost
• Arquitens - weird turning, no brace
• Gozanti - more expensive than the GR-75
• Quasar - fragile, lack of firepower

Honestly without those weaknesses, the ships would be less interesting and the game weaker.

I would say the HH weakness is space. Seriously, I'm not referring here just to movement. But think about it, task force titles that benefit from closer range, black dice upgrade slot. Not the greatest yaw values. Shoot a title that rewards you for ramming. As a ship gose they are cheap, have capabilities to deliver some punch. But they need to be close to the enemy and each other.

Just now, Noosh said:

I would say the HH weakness is space. Seriously, I'm not referring here just to movement. But think about it, task force titles that benefit from closer range, black dice upgrade slot. Not the greatest yaw values. Shoot a title that rewards you for ramming. As a ship gose they are cheap, have capabilities to deliver some punch. But they need to be close to the enemy and each other.

This is totally true. It's a beautiful thing when inexperienced HH players choose Superior Positions...

11 hours ago, GiledPallaeon said:

I would be more than happy to see a longer post discussing this in more detail but from your presentation here, it sounds like two of these are not the fault of the VSD, and the third is a consequence of its design that isn't a weakness per se.

I'll probably polish it up after a few revisions and throw it up on BGG, but I can repost it here. I have to admit though, your response and others' is making me reconsider how I've been using the unit. I'm willing to admit maybe there's something I'm missing, and perhaps that's expecting too much out of it?

I'd like to respond to your points here though, at least until that article goes up.

Konstantine
I float him as a 'boon' for the VSD because at the time, the best use out of him is multiple mediums, which is easier to do out of 2-3 VSDs than trying to cram ISDs into a similar position. So if you want multiple mediums that fight to get the most leverage out of the list, it's VSDs. I don't think he's entirely crap- just that in the long range exchange when you can start to use his ability, your VSDs are suffering damage. It's how I don't see G8 grav wells as a counter to Demolisher- because the ship can easily activate out of the range stick distance and cross to close without the Interdictor's involvement. Still, Konstantine asks mediums to use his ability and the VSD is the only one of them that fights well.

Jerjerrod
I can agree with this assessment. I dismissed Jerjerrod because I consider what the approach battle is like, and the typical opponent the VSD can't defeat is a large ship (say, an ISD). Jerjerrod doesn't help when your opponent intends to charge down your throat with a heavy deployed last and you have no opportunity to flank it. However, if your opponent is a bunch of zipping CR-90s, I concur getting the front battery to stay pointed at a target is relevant.

QBTs
In my recent games at least, there's a lot of slow advancing at speed 1 and engagements later in the game, especially from a Liberty. Heavy ships on the approach stay at speed 1, making QBTs irrelevant on my VSDs. QBTs work against small ships that perhaps the VSD is designed to prey upon, but not against bigger ships which are fine coasting into range at speed 1.

DCaps
The more I reflect on your analysis Gilead the more I'm forming the opinion that VSDs are better designed to crush lights than brawl with heavies. Dcaps with Gunnery teams allows VSD-IIs to throw six dice at ships like hammerheads, corvettes, and flotillas to help clean them out. I keep overlooking the small ships because, I think, I'm fixated on trying to solve what VSDs are supposed to do against heavies. I don't have an answer for that and it's driving me nuts.

Because of course, if Large ships can destroy mediums just as easy as other ships, why invest in the VSD at all? QFs have their place with fighter alpha strikes and Interdictors with the experimental retrofit, but the VSD and A/F are in this twilight place where it's more efficient to take other ships for activations or better staying power. *shrug*

1 hour ago, Norsehound said:

I'll probably polish it up after a few revisions and throw it up on BGG, but I can repost it here. I have to admit though, your response and others' is making me reconsider how I've been using the unit. I'm willing to admit maybe there's something I'm missing, and perhaps that's expecting too much out of it?

I'd like to respond to your points here though, at least until that article goes up.

Konstantine
I float him as a 'boon' for the VSD because at the time, the best use out of him is multiple mediums, which is easier to do out of 2-3 VSDs than trying to cram ISDs into a similar position. So if you want multiple mediums that fight to get the most leverage out of the list, it's VSDs. I don't think he's entirely crap- just that in the long range exchange when you can start to use his ability, your VSDs are suffering damage. It's how I don't see G8 grav wells as a counter to Demolisher- because the ship can easily activate out of the range stick distance and cross to close without the Interdictor's involvement. Still, Konstantine asks mediums to use his ability and the VSD is the only one of them that fights well.

Jerjerrod
I can agree with this assessment. I dismissed Jerjerrod because I consider what the approach battle is like, and the typical opponent the VSD can't defeat is a large ship (say, an ISD). Jerjerrod doesn't help when your opponent intends to charge down your throat with a heavy deployed last and you have no opportunity to flank it. However, if your opponent is a bunch of zipping CR-90s, I concur getting the front battery to stay pointed at a target is relevant.

QBTs
In my recent games at least, there's a lot of slow advancing at speed 1 and engagements later in the game, especially from a Liberty. Heavy ships on the approach stay at speed 1, making QBTs irrelevant on my VSDs. QBTs work against small ships that perhaps the VSD is designed to prey upon, but not against bigger ships which are fine coasting into range at speed 1.

DCaps
The more I reflect on your analysis Gilead the more I'm forming the opinion that VSDs are better designed to crush lights than brawl with heavies. Dcaps with Gunnery teams allows VSD-IIs to throw six dice at ships like hammerheads, corvettes, and flotillas to help clean them out. I keep overlooking the small ships because, I think, I'm fixated on trying to solve what VSDs are supposed to do against heavies. I don't have an answer for that and it's driving me nuts.

Because of course, if Large ships can destroy mediums just as easy as other ships, why invest in the VSD at all? QFs have their place with fighter alpha strikes and Interdictors with the experimental retrofit, but the VSD and A/F are in this twilight place where it's more efficient to take other ships for activations or better staying power. *shrug*

I'll try to respond here in that same order. 1. My opinion of Konstantine is dim, so if you're looking for revelations I'd suggest other people. I agree the VSD is the obvious choice, being perhaps the least bad medium for him on balance. I wholeheartedly agree G-8 is no Demolisher counter, and honestly while it's the flashiest of the ER's, it's probably last in my utility estimate (TS, GSR, G7-X, and G-8 in that order).

2. Yeah, that sounds like a meta issue/difference. (Definitely coming back to that.) Even the Rebels that run Larges in my area tend to have a herd of smaller ships in tow, and it's amazing how far around your front arc a panicked GR-75 can get. (This why my ISDs now come standard with HCIT/H9.)

3. Ok, this is the meta thing I was referring to. Maybe it's because the Libs I'm used to are flown by @jamie nasmyth, @Vergilius, and @Aresius, but I was only peripherally aware the ship HAD a Speed 1 setting, let alone that people used it. Mine have their accelerators welded to the floor. H1MC80s, I totally buy Speed 1. Same for some ISDs sometimes. But a Liberty? Those things are like MiGs, they live and die by their speed and maneuverability. Next you'll tell me they don't use Engine Techs (that's believable but still). If they're using QBT against you, well, I'm not sure then. Fake them out by bringing XI7s a time or two. (Yo, FFG! Where's the Imp XI7, eh?) If they are going that slow, hopefully you can get more than one VSD on target so even if you trade one to one, one of yours is still standing and you're up thirty to fifty points.

4. Yeah, the VSD is the archetypal armored cruiser. Big, well armed, and handles like a brick made of lead. Regarding cost efficiency, I'd have to crunch numbers but VSDs are near the top in dice and hull per points. Upgrades on them are sometimes less efficient because the effect is on a smaller battery (I don't think anyone will contest XI7 is worth more of its six points on an I-2 than say a AF2), but some like QBT and DCaps shine because you can have many of them on the field. I'll have to mull over tactics for you to use against Larges. In the meantime I summon my VSD friends and we'll see what they can add. @Megatronrex @ThatSlyBandit

I love this community for its analytic capabilities. Normally, everything meaningfull has been said, before I can type an answer. However, this time it has failed. So many posts on the weakness of the AFM2 and none got to the point. Its weakness? Come on, guys, the answer is obvious: its looks! It is terrible as soon as we are talking about looks...

Rebel Weakness is low hit points but make up for it with higher shield values and sometimes even double brace.

Imperials have lots of hit points but often lower shield values making them vulnerable to critical hits. They mitigate this weakness with double contains.

3 hours ago, GiledPallaeon said:

4. Yeah, the VSD is the archetypal armored cruiser. Big, well armed, and handles like a brick made of lead. Regarding cost efficiency, I'd have to crunch numbers but VSDs are near the top in dice and hull per points. Upgrades on them are sometimes less efficient because the effect is on a smaller battery (I don't think anyone will contest XI7 is worth more of its six points on an I-2 than say a AF2), but some like QBT and DCaps shine because you can have many of them on the field. I'll have to mull over tactics for you to use against Larges. In the meantime I summon my VSD friends and we'll see what they can add. @Megatronrex @ThatSlyBandit

If you're having fleet trouble I feel bad for you son

Imps got 99 problems but the Vic ain't one

Excepting the Raider, I don't think there's a more falsely maligned ship in the Imperial roster than the Victory. If you can think of the ISD as Captain America then the Vic is the Falcon. It does everything an ISD does just slower. I'll admit that I used to hate the Vic. I mean wanting to pick them up from the table and throw them across the room hated them. That all changed when I learned to fly them. Their biggest drawbacks to me were their lack of maneuverability and defensive retrofit. Then along came Jerry and Tua and both of those problems were solved in a single wave. The next obstacles on the Vic's path to greatness were lack of speed and an inability to hurt any ships with evades at long range. Enter Quads and DCaps. Couple that with Leading Shots and now those pesky little Corvettes and Flotillas can get popped two at a time. Even ISDs flinch at seven dice with the option of re-rolls.

Victory II-Class Star Destroyer (85 points)
- Minister Tua ( 2 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Disposable Capacitors ( 3 points)
- Reinforced Blast Doors ( 5 points)
- Quad Battery Turrets ( 5 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 111 total ship cost

This setup has rarely let me down. It can kill at all ranges and stand up to d*** near anything, including BTAvenger.

3 hours ago, GiledPallaeon said:

3. Ok, this is the meta thing I was referring to. Maybe it's because the Libs I'm used to are flown by @jamie nasmyth, @Vergilius, and @Aresius, but I was only peripherally aware the ship HAD a Speed 1 setting, let alone that people used it. Mine have their accelerators welded to the floor. H1MC80s, I totally buy Speed 1. Same for some ISDs sometimes. But a Liberty? Those things are like MiGs, they live and die by their speed and maneuverability. Next you'll tell me they don't use Engine Techs (that's believable but still). If they're using QBT against you, well, I'm not sure then. Fake them out by bringing XI7s a time or two. (Yo, FFG! Where's the Imp XI7, eh?) If they are going that slow, hopefully you can get more than one VSD on target so even if you trade one to one, one of yours is still standing and you're up thirty to fifty points.

I don't use speed-1 very often. Though I can think of using it in the following situations:

1. On deployment, if I need a slow joust and am almost certain to win that exchange.

2. If the only way I'm getting through this objective is simply to lock in and trade out my Liberty for his big ship and something else

3. If I end up speed-1 in the middle of the game after maneuvering at speeds 2 and 3 for a while

To be fair to Norsehund, if I'm seeing QBT VSDs across the map, I'm taking a good look at the the rest of the list and what I need to kill. If I think I can flank, giving up a QBT die simply not to be in the front arc is worth it. Otherwise, with all other things equal, a Liberty wins that exchange, so speed-1 isn't a bad choice.

57 minutes ago, Megatronrex said:

If you're having fleet trouble I feel bad for you son

Imps got 99 problems but the Vic ain't one

Excepting the Raider, I don't think there's a more falsely maligned ship in the Imperial roster than the Victory. If you can think of the ISD as Captain America then the Vic is the Falcon. It does everything an ISD does just slower. I'll admit that I used to hate the Vic. I mean wanting to pick them up from the table and throw them across the room hated them. That all changed when I learned to fly them. Their biggest drawbacks to me were their lack of maneuverability and defensive retrofit. Then along came Jerry and Tua and both of those problems were solved in a single wave. The next obstacles on the Vic's path to greatness were lack of speed and an inability to hurt any ships with evades at long range. Enter Quads and DCaps. Couple that with Leading Shots and now those pesky little Corvettes and Flotillas can get popped two at a time. Even ISDs flinch at seven dice with the option of re-rolls.

Victory II-Class Star Destroyer (85 points)
- Minister Tua ( 2 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Disposable Capacitors ( 3 points)
- Reinforced Blast Doors ( 5 points)
- Quad Battery Turrets ( 5 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 111 total ship cost

This setup has rarely let me down. It can kill at all ranges and stand up to d*** near anything, including BTAvenger.

Blast doors over ECM? No worry from H9 MC30s?

55 minutes ago, Megatronrex said:

If you're having fleet trouble I feel bad for you son

Imps got 99 problems but the Vic ain't one

Excepting the Raider, I don't think there's a more falsely maligned ship in the Imperial roster than the Victory. If you can think of the ISD as Captain America then the Vic is the Falcon. It does everything an ISD does just slower. I'll admit that I used to hate the Vic. I mean wanting to pick them up from the table and throw them across the room hated them. That all changed when I learned to fly them. Their biggest drawbacks to me were their lack of maneuverability and defensive retrofit. Then along came Jerry and Tua and both of those problems were solved in a single wave. The next obstacles on the Vic's path to greatness were lack of speed and an inability to hurt any ships with evades at long range. Enter Quads and DCaps. Couple that with Leading Shots and now those pesky little Corvettes and Flotillas can get popped two at a time. Even ISDs flinch at seven dice with the option of re-rolls.

Victory II-Class Star Destroyer (85 points)
- Minister Tua ( 2 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Disposable Capacitors ( 3 points)
- Reinforced Blast Doors ( 5 points)
- Quad Battery Turrets ( 5 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 111 total ship cost

This setup has rarely let me down. It can kill at all ranges and stand up to d*** near anything, including BTAvenger.

So what you're telling me is that save my money and buy all the victories? Done. Sold. Running 4 victories no fighters. That will be my first imp list, Budget angry triangles. For when you need to put on the pain, but not on your wallet.

Just now, geek19 said:

Blast doors over ECM? No worry from H9 MC30s?

Solely a meta choice. I see a lot of BTAvenger, I rarely see MC30s though. I'm glad for that too because the last time I did I lost the Vic to Admo in a single activation. MC30s are the only reason for me saying it rarely lets me down as opposed to never lets me down. I don't know why MC30s aren't popular in my area they're personally my favorite rebel ship.

3 minutes ago, Noosh said:

So what you're telling me is that save my money and buy all the victories? Done. Sold. Running 4 victories no fighters. That will be my first imp list, Budget angry triangles. For when you need to put on the pain, but not on your wallet.

I haven't tried running 4 at once yet but I have been wanting to try it out. Probably will after regionals but until then I'm only running one list. I've got a pretty good feel for my current list and don't want to mess up my mojo. I already have 4 so my wallets already felt that particular pain.

Just now, Megatronrex said:

I haven't tried running 4 at once yet but I have been wanting to try it out. Probably will after regionals but until then I'm only running one list. I've got a pretty good feel for my current list and don't want to mess up my mojo. I already have 4 so my wallets already felt that particular pain.

Bell of Lost Souls has a twitch video where one of the players (Abe) runs a 4x Vic list with Konstantine. IIRC it's 2 Vic I and 2 Vic II.

It's a fun watch!