It seems like the ISD1 is about to get totally upstaged. It's been nudged out of the supercarrier role already by the way-cheaper Quasar Fire. Since the QF, it's been almost exclusively used as a close-range brawler, particularly as a BTVenger platform.

In Wave 7, though, I have a hard time imagining the ISDK not completely superseding the ISD1 for that role. 5 points more for ExRax and replacing a red with a blue in the side arc seems like a no-brainer to me, particularly since those 5 points also buy you a defensive retrofit without burning your officer slot and a unique to bring Tua.

So, unless W7 is also bringing either a turbolaser upgrade that's super amazing for the ISD1, or an off ret that goes amazingly well with it and needs a second off ret slot (for example, something that turbocharges BTVenger), I have a hard time imagining what I would use the ISD1 instead of the ISDK for.

What do you guys think? Does anybody see a continued role for the ISD1, or will it fade into obscurity like the AF2A?

Yeah I’m really not sure why they made the other two 112 and so similar. But there are differences.

Only plus I see for the ISD I is the turbolaser and double offensive slot. And it's the cheapest BT platform by 2 points.

Kuat seems better all around because it can take ACM which is stronger than XI7.

I think ISD I is done for. Anything that makes an ISD I stronger risks BTA OPness.

More exhausted defense tokens with BT compared to ISDK? The best carrier as ISDs go? Because a Quasar can’t look after itself, and battleships that can push squadrons matter for Sloane.

Its still gonna be a supercarrier. Just because there is the quasar and its cheaper, it doesn't necessary means its better. ISD1 has the staying power, and can punch as well, while the quasar can be one-shotted, and its firepower is barely enough to scratch the paint on the ships.

Would the ISDI be a viable super carrier with Thrawn?

14 minutes ago, The Jabbawookie said:

More exhausted defense tokens with BT compared to ISDK? The best carrier as ISDs go? Because a Quasar can’t look after itself, and battleships that can push squadrons matter for Sloane.

There it is, that's what I was missing. Missed that the ISDK BTVenger wouldn't exhaust all the tokens on everything. Indeed, it can't even be expanded to exhaust all the braces and redirects on everything, because it can't take BT and ExHB at the same time.

So the ISD1 BTVenger will still probably be a thing. Good catch!

11 minutes ago, Coldhands said:

Its still gonna be a supercarrier. Just because there is the quasar and its cheaper, it doesn't necessary means its better. ISD1 has the staying power, and can punch as well, while the quasar can be one-shotted, and its firepower is barely enough to scratch the paint on the ships.

I agree. Squad 4 QF doesn't want to get anywhere close to the fighting. ISD-I wants to be in the thick of fighting with its fighters as a brawler carrier. What blues you're missing from the flanks of the Kuat refit you get instead with fighters attacking to exhaust tokens.

I think squadron support is the biggest difference that matters between the ISD-I and ISD-K... that, and the ordnance/shield slot vs squadron support. If there's ever a meta where fighters don't matter so much, the -K refit will edge out over the ISD-I. But I suspect the -I is still going to be valid because taking squadrons is always a great idea.

I think both ISD1 and ISD-K will have their place in a meta. Norwithstanding the higher squadron value of ISD1 (supercarrier role/BT role), the ability to take turbolasers should not be discounted. XI7 cheap brawlers should be situational, but a valid choice as opposed to ER ISD-K brawlers, however the main brawler niche for ISD1 may end up being H9-based (OE/H9/HCIT build).

I've been thinking a lot about low activation lists the past few months, and the ISD-I seems to be a good choice for that. When you do low activation-count lists, you need each of your activations to be of extremely high quality. ISD-1 lets you pound with squadrons, hit hard, and move fast. The Kuat refit is a bit lacking for that, as it doesn't move the same number of squadrons.

Another major difference between the two is the anti-squadron armament. The Kuat refit is blue then black. ISD-I is far superior with its black then blue anti-squadron complement.

2 minutes ago, RobertK said:

Another major difference between the two is the anti-squadron armament. The Kuat refit is blue then black. ISD-I is far superior with its black then blue anti-squadron complement.

Actually, I would have to disagree with you here. Blue-black AS on a Kuat refit is a clear upgrade over ISD1

ISD 1 plus Tua costs the same as Kuat and has better squad value. If you arent using the ordnance slot or officer slot then the ISD 1 is better.

1 minute ago, Ginkapo said:

ISD 1 plus Tua costs the same as Kuat and has better squad value. If you arent using the ordnance slot or officer slot then the ISD 1 is better.

This is a big if, especially as far as the officer slot is concerned. For example, Kuat allows to have Kallus, QLT and RBD on the same ship (while previously this config was limited to ISD2)

3 minutes ago, PT106 said:

Actually, I would have to disagree with you here. Blue-black AS on a Kuat refit is a clear upgrade over ISD1

This will clearly derail the thread if we continue this very serious discussion here. I think we'll have to agree to disagree.

4 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

ISD 1 plus Tua costs the same as Kuat and has better squad value. If you arent using the ordnance slot or officer slot then the ISD 1 is better.

That said, those are easily two of the most usable slots in the game. ER, SFO. 4 points, always good.

Just now, RobertK said:

This will clearly derail the thread if we continue this very serious discussion here. I think we'll have to agree to disagree.

Agreed. See my previous post for a real reason to rank those ships that way AS-wise

Ultimate Flak boat!

Kallus, Quad Lasers, Point Defence reroute, Leading shots, Ordnance Experts, Dual Turbolaser Turrets.

7 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

ISD 1 plus Tua costs the same as Kuat and has better squad value. If you arent using the ordnance slot or officer slot then the ISD 1 is better.

There's also the uniqueness issue with Tua: it's not uncommon, in my builds anyway, to want her on 3 ships at the same time.

Just now, Irokenics said:

Ultimate Flak boat!

Kallus, Quad Lasers, Point Defence reroute, Leading shots, Ordnance Experts, Dual Turbolaser Turrets.

Surely PDR can’t beat Flechette Torpedoes.

Squadron 2 is only going to hurt the kuat bt avenger if the target is an mc80 home 1 (which will get 4 extra health out of a redirect) or another isd. Thats if he has ecm. Liberty will get 2 health out of the redirect unless you get an accuracy.

Anything else is going to die just as bad i think.

2 minutes ago, Ophion said:

Squadron 2 is only going to hurt the kuat bt avenger if the target is an mc80 home 1 (which will get 4 extra health out of a redirect) or another isd. Thats if he has ecm. Liberty will get 2 health out of the redirect unless you get an accuracy.

I feel like though those are the targets you're really wanting to use the BT for. Everything else at close range is in dire straights even without BT.

9 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

ISD 1 plus Tua costs the same as Kuat and has better squad value. If you arent using the ordnance slot or officer slot then the ISD 1 is better.

I have to agree with this.


I think the ISD 1 may still have a useful niche with the BT avenger crowd. While I think the Kuat refit could replace it, having such a low squadron value ultimately leaves more to chance. Adding Thrawn into the equation also adds opportunity for the ISD 1.

Just playing around with what's on fabs

ISD 1 [110]
-Tua 2
-BTs 3
-RLBs 6
-ECMs 7
-LS 4
-Spinals 9
-Avenger 5
=146 points

Throw a few bombers in there (or jendon/steel for a basically guaranteed 4 hits).

Add Thrawn to the fleet and suddenly this guy is dropping bombers, using BTs, and a Confire all on the same activation.

Not a ship I'd want to get close to.

It's already been mentioned a couple times, but the I-1 is the best battle-carrier, a role Thrawn will allow to finally come to fruition (squadron command and concentrate fire/navigate/repair). BTAvenger isn't going anywhere off that ship, and it will remain up to the metas to decide whether an I-K or an I-1 is superior in a deployment. ACM is better than XI7 when there are double arcs and/or additional damage coming at the target from additional vectors that won't also be able to bore into the same hull zone. However, the Kuat is only okay at dealing with flotillas and overheating ECMs, a role the I-1 (specifically the Bruiser Extraordinaire build of OE/HCIT/H9 that's making the rounds) is capable of fulfilling.

39 minutes ago, GiledPallaeon said:

It's already been mentioned a couple times, but the I-1 is the best battle-carrier, a role Thrawn will allow to finally come to fruition (squadron command and concentrate fire/navigate/repair). BTAvenger isn't going anywhere off that ship, and it will remain up to the metas to decide whether an I-K or an I-1 is superior in a deployment. ACM is better than XI7 when there are double arcs and/or additional damage coming at the target from additional vectors that won't also be able to bore into the same hull zone. However, the Kuat is only okay at dealing with flotillas and overheating ECMs, a role the I-1 (specifically the Bruiser Extraordinaire build of OE/HCIT/H9 that's making the rounds) is capable of fulfilling.

Pretty much this exactly. Kuat is more of a dedicated long-term short-ranged bruiser but the ISD-I Avenger BT combo does superior finisher damage against heavier targets (which is where you want to be using it anyways) and can be built into a ship that's a proficient battle-carrier or has the benefit of guaranteed accuracy results in every arc.

When you need BTAvenger you call the ISD1.

When you need a super carrier you call the ISD1.

When you need a cheaper isd you call the ISD1.

When you need fleet command you call the ISD1.

When you need defensive retrofit you call the ISD1.

When you need you NEED the ISD1.

Jokes aside I agree that there are better options around for each purpose you chose the ISD1 but whenever you want 2 or more of those purposes the ISD1 is right there I think. And Thrawn is there to help it. BTAvenger is able to "bt" and command squadrons and you also can have defensive retrofit on it.