3 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

No offense to you, Allwings.

every time I hear someone say "should fortress", I want to put all my ships down forever and stop playing this game ever again due to crap design and poor support.

Since we're talking about fortressing, I actually sorta am kinda looking at super-Kylo + 4 Academy Pilots. You get a lot of blocking and efficiency firepower for a certain kind of target, and 11 total final salvo dice to discourage fortressing against you.

1 minute ago, Biophysical said:

No, he's gotta kill more than he loses from dead wingmates, unless you're looking at a 50+ point bid.

There was a time just a year and a half ago when a lone Soontir Fel with an 65pt bid was capable of going 4-2 in big Regionals. And the perk of 86pt Dual Phantoms in the peak was that you didn't have any wingmen to die and bleed off MoV... I am sure Kylo is far more capable than Fel of solo-ing lists, but Imperials have many wingman options who are very hard to kill and can be paired with Kylo (e.g. Fel, Inq, Omega Leader, Vader, Whipser, ...).

Just now, Biophysical said:

Since we're talking about fortressing, I actually sorta am kinda looking at super-Kylo + 4 Academy Pilots. You get a lot of blocking and efficiency firepower for a certain kind of target, and 11 total final salvo dice to discourage fortressing against you.

I'll take my four starvipers and sunny and we can roll off 11 v 12.

3 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Palp Aces, for what its worth, was probably a little too strong in its heyday. But Imperials need better support like old Palp. I wish they'd just re-nerf Palp to R1-3, old wording and be done.

Umm, what? Palp Aces are still one of the best lists out there, and New Palp isn't a whole lot less effective than Classic Palp. Case in point, Palp Aces just won a huge European National and the PA Regional a few days ago...

7 minutes ago, HolySorcerer said:

Poe and Corran can both regen.

He’s using Intensity/BB-8 Poe. Which is also essentially Regen. But Kylo can hide from someone better than anyone.

1 hour ago, Ailowynn said:

When I flew him, I played Kylo, Vader, and a 16 point bid. I did not miss Palp. Neither ship suffers from 1 bad roll syndrome.

16 point bid? That's legit AF. Did you win?

1 minute ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Umm, what? Palp Aces are still one of the best lists out there, and New Palp isn't a whole lot less effective than Classic Palp. Case in point, Palp Aces just won a huge European National and the PA Regional a few days ago...

I'm willing to be wrong based on facts. Uhh, can you link me these? I wanna see what the competition was.

Just now, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Umm, what? Palp Aces are still one of the best lists out there, and New Palp isn't a whole lot less effective than Classic Palp. Case in point, Palp Aces just won a huge European National and the PA Regional a few days ago...

Maybe they could finally compete after the other factions were brought down to their power level?

10 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

No, he's gotta kill more than he loses from dead wingmates, unless you're looking at a 50+ point bid.

I’ve been seeing 85-87 Point Lists with him. The other partners have been black out or Whisper. Even OP took a huge bid and had Vader.

5 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

There was a time just a year and a half ago when a lone Soontir Fel with an 65pt bid was capable of going 4-2 in big Regionals. And the perk of 86pt Dual Phantoms in the peak was that you didn't have any wingmen to die and bleed off MoV... I am sure Kylo is far more capable than Fel of solo-ing lists, but Imperials have many wingman options who are very hard to kill and can be paired with Kylo (e.g. Fel, Inq, Omega Leader, Vader, Whipser, ...).

I think all of those paired with Kylo could make good squads, and still not be the repetitive offensive hammer combined with incredible reactiveness of pre-nerf phantoms.

So the big problem with being moderately serious trying to do these 2 ship high initiative bid builds with Kylo Ren is that RACLo still exists with VI Vader or Quickdraw as partners. Kylo doesn't have a built in way to have a 4th agility result via evade action or title like Concord Dawn on Protectorates so rng 1 shot from RACLo will very likely get the one crit it needs through. Plus a whole list higher PS than Kylo Ren isn't very fun for him.

1 minute ago, Biophysical said:

I think all of those paired with Kylo could make good squads, and still not be the repetitive offensive hammer combined with incredible reactiveness of pre-nerf phantoms.

May god have mercy on our souls if we every see anything like Pre-Nerf phantoms again. That being said, at least Pre-Nerf phantoms could be countered with VI Han. There isn't much that can counter Kylo, because with Autothrusters turrets are exceptionally less effective against him.

But I think this reveals in inherent problems with Arc-Dodging as a ship-type. I know it's fashionable to hate on turrets, but still you'd never see a Turret list with an 15+pt bid ever doing consistently well.* However, in the game's five year history, we've seen cases of Arc-Dodge lists with 15pt bids (and sometimes as absurd as 65pt bids) posting up successful records at large, competitive events, because without hard-counters across the table a single arc-dodger can (eventually) solo many types of lists when flown well.

* Justification : turrets pay a big tax and as such hit under their point-cost weight class on offense (exception: Dengar, who can attack twice per round, plus the JM5K chassis was so under-costed that the "turret tax" was less felt), so 100pts of turrets will chew through enemies more slowly than 100pts of, say, jousters/alpha-strikers. To win games, turrets have to take frequent advantage of their 360 attack if they want to win an attrition war against something like Quad Wookies, for instance, which will require ultimately making attacks during multiple rounds where the gunships have no shot, because otherwise there is no mathematical way for the Turret to out-attrition the gunships -- e.g. two Gunships have 6 Attack Dice and 18HP vs a comparably costed YT-1300 with only 3 Attack dice and 13HP. Furthermore, turrets tend to be far less immune to red dice and typically bleed MoV (large base). While you can build a super-hard-to-kill turret (think Classic Fat Han), that ship then ends up having below-average damage output. None of this is to say that turrets aren't good, of course, they are and have often been a viable archetype, but it explains why you'll never ever see Turret Lists doing well if they leave 15% or more of their points off of their list.

1 minute ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

May god have mercy on our souls if we every see anything like Pre-Nerf phantoms again. That being said, at least Pre-Nerf phantoms could be countered with VI Han. There isn't much that can counter Kylo, because with Autothrusters turrets are exceptionally less effective against him.

There seems to be no shortage of PS11s right now that can probably handle him with a modest hope for success.

31 minutes ago, Favoritism Flight Games said:

16 point bid? That's legit AF. Did you win?

A little bit. ?

4 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

There seems to be no shortage of PS11s right now that can probably handle him with a modest hope for success.

I think PS10 Nym and Autoblaster platforms will be good answers. Specific lists can do well against Kylo, such as autoblaster HerraGator, Ion, and bombers lists.

10 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

There seems to be no shortage of PS11s right now that can probably handle him with a modest hope for success.

Time will tell, though I'm also not convinced that PS11 Kylo isn't going to be the go-to version...

PS11 Kylo, PS11 Vader, and Giant Bid are the three pilots I've been personally using.

22 minutes ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:

Time will tell, though I'm also not convinced that PS11 Kylo isn't going to be the go-to version...

PS11 Kylo, PS11 Vader, and Giant Bid are the three pilots I've been personally using.

Hello "Epsilon Ace" meta!

2 hours ago, Q10fanatic said:

So, I get to experience the joys of pre-nerf Whisper now?

You've been experiencing it since Nym came out.

1 hour ago, SirCormac said:

Hello "Epsilon Ace" meta!

Darth Vader (29)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Scrambler Missiles (2)
Advanced Targeting Computer (1)
Engine Upgrade (4)
TIE/x1 (0)

Kylo Ren (TIE Silencer) (35)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Fire-Control System (2)
Primed Thrusters (1)
Autothrusters (2)
First Order Vanguard (2)

"Epsilon Ace" (17)
Comm Relay (3)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Epsilon Ace is OP.

Between inc kylo complaints and ye ole Nym, seems a sensor errata will be next on the docket

1 minute ago, ficklegreendice said:

Between inc kylo complaints and ye ole Nym, seems a sensor errata will be next on the docket

Yeah. I could see something like: at the start of the Activation phase, you may name an action. Immediately before revealing your dial, you may perform that action, blah blah blah. Probably wouldn’t be enough unless you also have to declare direction for boost/barrel roll though.

1 hour ago, Ailowynn said:

A little bit. ?

Could this bring action bomb Miranda back?

Experimental interface still lets you action bomb mostly the same, and even lets you bomb if you overlap an obstacle or ship while SLAMming. Granted, 6hp won't implode to clusters, but you should do about 3 to him, maybe 4.

5 minutes ago, HanScottFirst said:

Could this bring action bomb Miranda back?

I'll go call the X-Wing pope. He'll excommunicate you.

13 minutes ago, HanScottFirst said:

Could this bring action bomb Miranda back?

I think it could. EI Miranda is pretty much as good, since you can go through rocks and bump and still bomb.

I don’t think you use Clusters, though; I think you go back to Conner Nets. Kylo can’t Advanced Sensor if he doesn’t reveal a dial.