4 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

Otherwise though, if he is up against Dash, Nym, Kanan, Rey, ..., then he will have a problem and THEY are happy to force double repositioning to even get a shot while not having a token for the defense against their turrets.

Dash, nym, and kanan all have blind spots to sit in (hard to sit on PS10 nyms though)

Rey is only hyper accurate in arc. Otherwise she's 3 attack with focus. Which can get damage in, but slowly.

4 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

IMO you're making the same mistake as @jagsba here: The meta is currently very fluid, and we just saw Duncan Howard win with Imps. Arcdodgers are very likely on their way back anyway. The timing, probably more by accident than careful planning of FFG, will make it look as if it is the Silencer who brings it back, when it is actually the changed circumstances like fewer bombs and less unblockable damage that allows them back in. So we should also expect more high agility ships in the future, partially because the Silencer will be everywhere, partially because the time is ripe for them to get into the game again.

I'm well aware that arc dodgers are starting to creep back in. But a lot of the traditional methods of countering arc dodgers (blocking, stress) are far less effective against kylo.

4 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

21 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:

2) means he only works against 30% of all ships used at the mentioned Nationals. Granted, that number will go up. But it can as easily go down again as reaction to Kylo!

Do these weaknesses make him a bad ship? No! And I did not say it will. Instead I repeatedly said that he is good. But is not that good. He won't break the game. I would call him A-tier, and I agree with the comparison to Poe.

This is what worries me. The comparison to whisper is apt. Maybe not in terms of dominance in the meta, but just like whisper, if enough kylo shows up, arced ships with either low PS or no repositioning can't be played because you just loose the kylo match.

As I said above. There are counters for him, but less than for other arc dodgers.

I don't want a meta that is kylo, PS10, or go home. Hopefully it'll be like RAClo and not get enough good meta matchups to stay marginal.

• Kylo - VI, FCS, Threat Tracker, Title, Autothrusters (45pts)

I like that build a bit more. Being at PS11 eliminates a lot of his problem matchups, and FCS/Threat Tracker gives him back some of the maneuvering lost by stepping up to PS11 with Veteran Instincts.

You've lost the Advanced Sensors but they seem to me like overkill in good matchups and not especially helpful in bad matchups.

On 01/12/2017 at 3:35 PM, Stay On The Leader said:

• Kylo - VI, FCS, Threat Tracker, Title, Autothrusters (45pts)

I like that build a bit more. Being at PS11 eliminates a lot of his problem matchups, and FCS/Threat Tracker gives him back some of the maneuvering lost by stepping up to PS11 with Veteran Instincts.

You've lost the Advanced Sensors but they seem to me like overkill in good matchups and not especially helpful in bad matchups.

Yeah that's a tasty build.

After two games playing Kylo Ren (PtL-AS) and two games against Kylo (PtL), I'm currently not impressed...

Do not count on ISYTDS. It is just a bonus that may or may not proc'. (but I'm used to Kylo crew paired with ATC-Vader and Backdraft).

Vanguard title is not Predator. If you arc-dodge (BR+Boost), you do not have dice modification. Soontir Fel is better in this regards.

Survivability wise, 4 hull and 2 shields are nice but not at the x7 or Soontir level if you make a mistake.

But my main concern is the point cost. To use it as a flanker, I can not find good wingman for him as a good init bid is mandatory. In the 50 points range, the Empire has not much that would be a higher priority target.

Why is nobody here talking about Threat Tracker and how it allows him to neutralize even higher PS ships?

PTL + Threat + FCS/Sensors + Title can make you incredibly hard to pin down, even against higher PS ships. Say you're playing against a PS11 QuickDraw with Harpoon Missiles (maybe the most common Imperial Ship currently). That seems like a terrible matchup for you right? Not really. If you action TL him on your initial engagement you can do one of two things...trigger threat tracker or force him to BR out of your arc which means he'll be shooting at you unmodded. Plus, remember you can PTL off of Threat Tracker as it is an action. You could also potentially trigger multiple threat trackers per round as you can acquire FCS target locks and action target locks in the same round.

This is a rare single arced ship where you don't auto lose to higher Ps. It's quite the opposite.

Furthermore, don't forget about the Vanguard title ditch ability. One of the huge problems with any high AGI ship was that one critical defense roll where you blank out and take 3-4 damage even when you are tokened/thrustered up. This saves you from that.

We haven't even touched on the wide variety or builds you can come up with using some mix of debris with EI, intensity with threat, ect builds that could be just as good with more testing

Theres no doubt this will be a high skill ship to master. But it has some incredible tools that can make it good to great against a very wide variety of lists you'll encounter. For that reason I believe he will be an incredible ship in large tournaments where you must list build against a large and diverse meta.

Seriously, quit with the "well he is countered hard by X". This game is so large now that literally everything has a hard counter. The key to major competitive success is minimizing those counters as much as possible and list building to deal with the wide range of Tier 1-2 meta stuff you'll see at these events. The ships, and lists, that can deal with diversity better will win.

I feel like some people won't be satisfied unless a ship is released that can deal with EVERYTHING. Well, I hope you stay unsatisfied because if that happens then we enter another Jumpaster meta for another two years where one ship if so ridiculously OP that it breaks the game. Isn't that what we've painfully been trying to get out of this game???

The Silencer will be good to great. It won't be the Jumpmaster. Thanks the XWing gods for that.

16 minutes ago, Waaaaaampa said:

Why is nobody here talking about Threat Tracker and how it allows him to neutralize even higher PS ships?

Probably because it requires FCS, cutting out Advanced Sensors? And that in turn means that the prime benefit of the Silencer is gone.
There is a case to be made for VI+FCS on a slim Kylo, but ThreatTracker makes him more expensive again. It's hard to fit something next to him that's good enough, and it's hard for Kylo to pull his own weight because his offense is not strong. (edit: 3 posts above you, SOTL actually mentioned " Kylo - VI, FCS, Threat Tracker, Title, Autothrusters (45pts) ")

16 minutes ago, Waaaaaampa said:

We haven't even touched on the wide variety or builds you can come up with using some mix of debris with EI, intensity with threat, ect builds that could be just as good with more testing

Because Autothrusters are pretty much stapled to him. His defense is not very good, which means he needs focus+AT. Which in turn also cuts into his offense as he now can't use that focus there.

16 minutes ago, Waaaaaampa said:

I feel like some people won't be satisfied unless a ship is released that can deal with EVERYTHING. Well, I hope you stay unsatisfied because if that happens then we enter another Jumpaster meta for another two years where one ship if so ridiculously OP that it breaks the game. Isn't that what we've painfully been trying to get out of this game???

The Silencer will be good to great. It won't be the Jumpmaster. Thanks the XWing gods for that.

I 100% agree with you. I think Kylo is good, and that's perfect, because he is not OP. He allows some great, very fun builds. He also allows some builds that will be able to win something.He won't be broken. There are people out there who think that he will break the game, which is pretty surely not the case

20 minutes ago, Waaaaaampa said:

We haven't even touched on the wide variety or builds you can come up with using some mix of debris with EI, intensity with threat, ect builds that could be just as good with more testing

Theres no doubt this will be a high skill ship to master. But it has some incredible tools that can make it good to great against a very wide variety of lists you'll encounter. For that reason I believe he will be an incredible ship in large tournaments where you must list build against a large and diverse meta.

(...)

The Silencer will be good to great. It won't be the Jumpmaster. Thanks the XWing gods for that.

I agree. When the TI/SF was released, I was also disapointed by Quickdraw. I tried it with Wired because of all the reds or Rage/Electronic Baffle. Then after a dozen of games, I glued FCS to it and it is now an auto include in all my lists. Same with the Decimator. I bought it, watched melt in two rounds, put it back in its box forever. 3 months later I went to Regionals with a double Decimator list...

Back to the TIE Silencer, my next try will be th PS7 pilot+PtL+FCS+Thread Tracer+AT+Title for 41 points.