4 hours ago, Rinzler in a Tie said:Why do you favor S-loops to T-rolls?
Generally, you can think of a Troll as a K-Turn + Barrel Roll, and a Sloop as a K-Turn + boost. The sloop tends to change your position options vs K-Turns quite a bit more than Trolls do.
16 minutes ago, Punning Pundit said:Generally, you can think of a Troll as a K-Turn + Barrel Roll, and a Sloop as a K-Turn + boost. The sloop tends to change your position options vs K-Turns quite a bit more than Trolls do.
Indeed. Segnors are good at getting your nose around and getting a shot on someone as they pass you (especially the relatively short S-loops like a TIE/fo or the 'turn harder than normal' S-loops of a TIE striker or IG-88D
It's an impressive ship.
You can field three generics (just) with Fire Control System, Advanced Optics and Autothrusters, which sounds...interesting. I doubt it's devastating, because ultimately you're stuck with 3 green and a focus to defend yourself - the same as a TIE/D or a lightweight frame bomber. Autothrusters will help, but I'm not sure if they'll help enough. Still, advanced optics gives the non-elite version a bit of action economy, and if you don't need your action to focus or target lock, that dial plus boost or barrel roll at will makes them squirrely as heck.
Elites....you're going to be into 'two ship list' territory, or one ace plus a miniswarm of something. Or maybe an Upsilon support ship?
43 minutes ago, Punning Pundit said:Generally, you can think of a Troll as a K-Turn + Barrel Roll, and a Sloop as a K-Turn + boost. The sloop tends to change your position options vs K-Turns quite a bit more than Trolls do.
Or, better yet, a sloop is a k-turn + starviper barrel roll.
You can get three ships with the elites, you just have to have two of them be 28pt generic Defenders or Gunboats.
11 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:You can get three ships with the elites, you just have to have two of them be 28pt generic Defenders or Gunboats.
I meant trying to use multiple silencers, after the fashion of triple ace interceptors.
I think I might try Kylo with a pair of TIE/fo aces as escorts - Omega Ace and Omega Leader seem fitting wingmen; Omega Leader is a pretty dangerous opponent if you try and go after the TIE/vn and ignore her, whilst Omega Ace with Advanced Optics is pretty good at exploiting any I'll Show You The Dark Side conditions and/or low agility ships left 'shields down' after the two higher PS ships fire.
You can probably fit a cheap Kylo with two cheap PS4 generics, but I suspect you've got to compromise too much to get them there.
Kylo/OL/1 cheap PS4 generic is probably doable though.
13 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:You can probably fit a cheap Kylo with two cheap PS4 generics, but I suspect you've got to compromise too much to get them there.
Kylo/OL/1 cheap PS4 generic is probably doable though.
I suspect you're probably right:
The above 'no-expense-spared' Kylo Ren could fit with two Seinar-Janus pilots if they're 26 points, but the generics would get nothing but collision detectors, which seems a waste of the ship's awesome upgrade bar, action bar and green dial.
I imagine if you wanted triple silencers it'd be better to save points and drop Kylo to Blackout with a more spartan outfit (title, autothrusters, trick shot, collision detector and primed thrusters is cheap and suits his pilot ability to a tee), you'd rack up 11 points to spend outfitting the generics, which would let you get the autothrusters and fire control that makes them more credible in a fight.
Edited by Magnus Grendel16 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:I suspect you're probably right:
The above 'no-expense-spared' Kylo Ren could fit with two Seinar-Janus pilots if they're 26 points, but the generics would get nothing but collision detectors, which seems a waste of the ship's awesome upgrade bar, action bar and green dial.
I imagine if you wanted triple silencers it'd be better to save points and drop Kylo to Blackout with a more spartan outfit (title, autothrusters, trick shot, collision detector and primed thrusters is cheap and suits his pilot ability to a tee), you'd rack up 11 points to spend outfitting the generics, which would let you get the autothrusters and fire control that makes them more credible in a fight.
You also need 90$ for three small based not-utterly-broken-as-jumpmasters-were ships. ?
2 minutes ago, Arma Quattro said:You also need 90$ for three small based not-utterly-broken-as-jumpmasters-were ships. ?
My wallet is currently thanking FFG for making the PS4 cost 26 points and not 25. 
21 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:I suspect you're probably right:
The above 'no-expense-spared' Kylo Ren could fit with two Seinar-Janus pilots if they're 26 points, but the generics would get nothing but collision detectors, which seems a waste of the ship's awesome upgrade bar, action bar and green dial.
I imagine if you wanted triple silencers it'd be better to save points and drop Kylo to Blackout with a more spartan outfit (title, autothrusters, trick shot, collision detector and primed thrusters is cheap and suits his pilot ability to a tee), you'd rack up 11 points to spend outfitting the generics, which would let you get the autothrusters and fire control that makes them more credible in a fight.
Drop PA to Primed (which is probably better for the build IMO) and you can get 2 x7 deltas.
8 minutes ago, darthlurker said:My wallet is currently thanking FFG for making the PS4 cost 26 points and not 25.
It'd rather show up the TIE/sf if it was - that's the same price as a Lightweight Frame Zeta Specialist, which compared to the Seinar-Jamus pilot:
At the same time, I think that if you're looking to pay in the 25-30 point range for a mid-weight first order ship, I'd probably reach for a kitted out special forces TIE before a generic Silencer (after all, Backdraft with a handful of upgrades is little more expensive than the 'first order' pilot).
Edited by Magnus GrendelI'm all in favour of how cheap the PS4 is. It's actually costed such that it might be USED rather than being pure binder fodder like most generics of ships where the aces are the focus.
15 hours ago, Arma Quattro said:And if you have PTL you can trigger it right after the boost/barrel roll for some crazy repositioning shenanigans.
Right in the combat phase where everyone has their butt glued to the mat.
****, you may even arcdodge the very ship that may shoot at you.
Sweetness.
That's why you want Kylo over the other one.
PS9 native+PTL.
Against PS10+ you will dodge the shoot before it happens.
Against PS9- you will fire it, TL with FCS, and be ready to dodge the response.
I like that there's 4 points between the two. There's a pretty big difference between Ps7 and Ps9 with those equipment.
7 hours ago, Yoda Man said:A good trick indeed....
That's the joke
6 hours ago, MaxPower said:I really like that FFG prices the no-ept generics aggressively these days. The silencer generics really sit between sf generics and deltas, both are good but not broken.
They really learned something. Namely that ept-less generics cant leverage a great dial and hence shouldnt pay that much of a premium for it.
Do we know the cost of both generics? PS4 is 26, what about the PS6? Does it have an EPT?
Edited by Celestial Lizards1 hour ago, thespaceinvader said:I'm all in favour of how cheap the PS4 is. It's actually costed such that it might be USED rather than being pure binder fodder like most generics of ships where the aces are the focus.
Definitely. Three generics is.....not going to be easy, compared to dancing around with the PS9+ ace crowd, but a sufficiently good dial and the ability to actually use actions to reposition without compromising tokens for dice rolls (like the ailerons title for the striker) does give you a fighting chance. FCS, Optics and Thrusters does most of the dice-modding work for you, leaving you to worry about how to fly the ship best.
The PS4 versus PS6 is an interesting choice, too. Push The limit and Pattern Analyser looks like it should be a good choice (it's very satisfying on a T-70), but getting to 33 points beforegetting round to autothrusters seems like a mistake.
6 minutes ago, Celestial Lizards said:Do we know the cost?
Apparently the PS4 Seinar-Jamus [] is 26 points with no EPT, whilst the PS6 First Order [] is 28 with an EPT
Edited by Magnus GrendelKir Kanos + this new Debris Gambit
the sadest story
2 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:The PS4 versus PS6 is an interesting choice, too. Push The limit and Pattern Analyser looks like it should be a good choice (it's very satisfying on a T-70), but getting to 33 points beforegetting round to autothrusters seems like a mistake.
PS6 with PTL, FCS, and Primed could be better.
Actually, a PS4 with Primed and nothing else would be pretty good on T-rolls.
8 minutes ago, Celestial Lizards said:PS6 with PTL, FCS, and Primed could be better.
Actually, a PS4 with Primed and nothing else would be pretty good on T-rolls.
I think FCS is probably a good first choice. FCS/Primed/Autothrusters is nice and cheap - provided you're getting autothrusters to trigger, you're on a par with a TIE/x7 defender on toughness but much more mobile (aside from the specific of the K-turn.
FCS offers you that edge of firepower, too.
18 minutes ago, Mu0n729 said:Kir Kanos + this new Debris Gambit
the sadest story
Oh oh!
Awwww. 
Had to look that one up!
8 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:I think FCS is probably a good first choice. FCS/Primed/Autothrusters is nice and cheap - provided you're getting autothrusters to trigger, you're on a par with a TIE/x7 defender on toughness but much more mobile (aside from the specific of the K-turn.
FCS offers you that edge of firepower, too.
Again, thrusters are not on par with a free evade
Thrusters change a blank to an evade. This is great, but it's not a free die-independent evade result
Not to mention it only works at range 3
Silencers are going to be a lot squisher than we believe, wild green dice excepted, unless defending against multiple autothrusterable attacks
And autothrusters ain't easy to enable, especially not relative to x7 and ESPECIALLY not at lower ps
Edited by ficklegreendice
3 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:I think FCS is probably a good first choice. FCS/Primed/Autothrusters is nice and cheap - provided you're getting autothrusters to trigger, you're on a par with a TIE/x7 defender on toughness but much more mobile (aside from the specific of the K-turn.
FCS offers you that edge of firepower, too.
You get a lot more options with the K-turns and T-rolls on the Silencer for turning around, too, and a much better dial overall.
The x7 has the defensive edge, I think, especially against high PS, low ship count lists, but that's about all it has, albeit with a correspondingly cheaper price once the core upgrades get added to the Silencer. The Silencer ends up being way more stress resistant, as well.
I think they'll both have a place, but my default is definitely going to lean toward the Silencer generics.
I wasn't particularly fussed for this ship when it was announced, but call me fairly hyped now.
On the note of not fussed for it originally, I think it's ugly as sin.
7 minutes ago, Biophysical said:You get a lot more options with the K-turns and T-rolls on the Silencer for turning around, too, and a much better dial overall.
The x7 has the defensive edge, I think, especially against high PS, low ship count lists, but that's about all it has, albeit with a correspondingly cheaper price once the core upgrades get added to the Silencer. The Silencer ends up being way more stress resistant, as well.
I think they'll both have a place, but my default is definitely going to lean toward the Silencer generics.
X7 has the edge in basically everything dice related with x7 and the white 4k, plus it's cheaper. When you're low ps, not being squishy is very important
The silencer basically only offers sensors and primed thrusters over it, which are far more effective at higher ps
The silencer is further pushed towards higher ps by the bloody title being unique
Now the title IS interesting, giving you burst durability and advantages against ubiquitous twoships
But it's unique, so there's no way to stack it against the x7. The pilots that make the most use out of it are beyond the x7's price range
Edited by ficklegreendice
3 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:X7 has the edge in basically everything dice related with x7 and the white 4k, plus it's cheaper. When you're low ps, not being squishy is very important
The silencer basically only offers sensors and primed thrusters over it, which are far more effective at higher ps
The silencer is further pushed towards higher ps by the bloody title being unique
Now the title IS interesting, giving you burst durability and advantages against ubiquitous twoships
But it's unique, so there's no way to stack it against the x7. The pilots that make the most use out of it are beyond the x7's price range
FCS makes a huge offensive difference, and the mobility is a tremendous improvement over x7s.