44 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

Unique

Star Wars Armada includes many famous characters and ships from the Star Wars universe. Each of these famous figures is represented by a card with a unique name, which is identified by a bullet (•) to the left of the name. A player cannot field two or more cards that share the same unique name.

I personally interpret "field" as what you bring to the field of battle to begin with. What "comes later" is not what you field, but its what you reinforce with. That is the definition I gained in the Royal Australian Air Force, and it still sticks with me today.

So in short, what I "field" is my Fleet List. And my Fleet list shall specify only one copy of a unique card to be legal.

Honestly, the Unique side is the trickiest rule to parse. Because "field" is such a simple word with such mixed emphasis and lack of definition.

Is there direct rules precedence for any of this? No. No there is not. This is the first time in Armada we're having the ability to take something from "out of the game" and place it into play, so we have no field of local reference. So I scout my frame of reference wider until I find something that works, essentially scouting in ever-widening circles to find it

I thought on the same way but found the chance of having two "actives" unique fleet commands.

Chimaera brings AFFM, Cymoon brings StM. Chimaera changes to StM and done. It is a corner case but it is also a legal way to bypass the unique rule for some kind of builds.

15 minutes ago, ovinomanc3r said:

I thought on the same way but found the chance of having two "actives" unique fleet commands.

Chimaera brings AFFM, Cymoon brings StM. Chimaera changes to StM and done. It is a corner case but it is also a legal way to bypass the unique rule for some kind of builds.

Indeed, and I think that should be disallowed at first blush, too.

Mostly for gameplay, because doubling fleet commands is just going to be brutal - like, Leia+Tokem+Token brutal.

Don’t count discarded for unique, but don’t double unique either - that makes most sense for gameplay.

Darn, double stacking intensify firepower with a Cymoon and Chimaera would be......broken as all get go. Hmm....

3 minutes ago, Darth Lupine said:

Darn, double stacking intensify firepower with a Cymoon and Chimaera would be......broken as all get go. Hmm....

Speed 5 Firesprays.

2 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

Speed 5 Firesprays.

Speed 5+FCT

There was a discussion about the rules of fleet building, and I don't remember the specifics.

If we were to consider the fleet building rules to only apply up to the point of turning in your fleet to the TO for approval and no longer applies after the fact, I can see someone getting 2 of the same fleet commands that are active, or even getting a new copy of a fleet command they discarded.

On the flip side, if you table your opponent and they cycled all 4 fleet commands and went over 400 points for their fleet total, do you still get a flat 400 points?

If a player destroys all of his or her opponent’s ships, the opponent’s fleet is worth 400 fleet points for the purposes of calculating score, even if the total ship, squadron, and upgrade cards are worth fewer fleet points.

1 minute ago, ovinomanc3r said:

Speed 5+FCT

Squall is even faster.

bit it also allows things like, speed 5 Decimator throwing 3 blacks and a blue with Flight controllers

4 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

There was a discussion about the rules of fleet building, and I don't remember the specifics.

If we were to consider the fleet building rules to only apply up to the point of turning in your fleet to the TO for approval and no longer applies after the fact, I can see someone getting 2 of the same fleet commands that are active, or even getting a new copy of a fleet command they discarded.

On the flip side, if you table your opponent and they cycled all 4 fleet commands and went over 400 points for their fleet total, do you still get a flat 400 points?

If a player destroys all of his or her opponent’s ships, the opponent’s fleet is worth 400 fleet points for the purposes of calculating score, even if the total ship, squadron, and upgrade cards are worth fewer fleet points.

Unless they amend the rule, yes.

the worst you lose out on is 30 or 36 points, right?

ive lost more than that on objectives when I accidentally tabled someone faster than expected.... but tabling is still usually worth it just to not have to kill squadrons to get their points worth.

26 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

Unless they amend the rule, yes.

the worst you lose out on is 30 or 36 points, right?

ive lost more than that on objectives when I accidentally tabled someone faster than expected.... but tabling is still usually worth it just to not have to kill squadrons to get their points worth.

If it's a slug fest and you table them and lose a large portion of your fleet, those points can be crucial in getting into the next point bracket. Hate to miss a 7 or 8 because of how long ago the rules were written. It's probably better to kill everything else except for a Gozanti so you actually score more than 400 points before counting objectives.

40 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

There was a discussion about the rules of fleet building, and I don't remember the specifics.

If we were to consider the fleet building rules to only apply up to the point of turning in your fleet to the TO for approval and no longer applies after the fact, I can see someone getting 2 of the same fleet commands that are active, or even getting a new copy of a fleet command they discarded.

On the flip side, if you table your opponent and they cycled all 4 fleet commands and went over 400 points for their fleet total, do you still get a flat 400 points?

If a player destroys all of his or her opponent’s ships, the opponent’s fleet is worth 400 fleet points for the purposes of calculating score, even if the total ship, squadron, and upgrade cards are worth fewer fleet points.

Also conceding is ruled in a way you score more if you're actually winning for more.

It needs a revision but we have that precedence.

2 minutes ago, ovinomanc3r said:

Also conceding is ruled in a way you score more if you're actually winning for more.

It needs a revision but we have that precedence.

No, conceding rules have no weight in tabling because both are explicitly defined.

And that's why I quoted the tabling rules. It says you score 400 points flat, regardless of what your opponents fleet cost is. In the past it was only able to be cheaper, but now we can have a fleet over 400 points once the game starts.

Guys, the uniqueness rules in the RRG are much clearer than the ones in the LTP...

RRG pg 13 UNIQUE NAMES

A card’s name is unique if there is a bullet (•) to the left of the name.

• A fleet cannot contain more than one card with the same unique name, even if those cards are of different types.

You plainly can't have multiple of any unique card in your fleet regardless of how it got there, so no doubling up with Chimaera + an ISDC. The only unclear element is whether a discarded card still counts as equipped to the ship for the purposes of uniqueness.

It is specifically detailed to do so for the purposes of scoring ; whether it does so for the purposes of uniqueness is not touched on one way or the other.

Man, I didn’t even realize I’d quoted LTP and not RRG...

Stupid Graveyard shift Memory

1 hour ago, Undeadguy said:

No, conceding rules have no weight in tabling because both are explicitly defined.

And that's why I quoted the tabling rules. It says you score 400 points flat, regardless of what your opponents fleet cost is. In the past it was only able to be cheaper, but now we can have a fleet over 400 points once the game starts.

I know I just pointed that it points to case where the fleet cost is fewer. And also another rule where the give a flat reward open to more in some cases.

I completely agree that right now it would be 400 no more no less.

1 hour ago, Ardaedhel said:

Guys, the uniqueness rules in the RRG are much clearer than the ones in the LTP...

RRG pg 13 UNIQUE NAMES

You plainly can't have multiple of any unique card in your fleet regardless of how it got there, so no doubling up with Chimaera + an ISDC. The only unclear element is whether a discarded card still counts as equipped to the ship for the purposes of uniqueness.

It is specifically detailed to do so for the purposes of scoring ; whether it does so for the purposes of uniqueness is not touched on one way or the other.

If it's discarded, does it not remain in the fleet still? So wouldn't discarding both prevent usage and prevent a duplicate from being included?

14 minutes ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

If it's discarded, does it not remain in the fleet still?

Only for scoring purposes... arguably

1 hour ago, Ardaedhel said:

Guys, the uniqueness rules in the RRG are much clearer than the ones in the LTP...

RRG pg 13 UNIQUE NAMES

You plainly can't have multiple of any unique card in your fleet regardless of how it got there, so no doubling up with Chimaera + an ISDC. The only unclear element is whether a discarded card still counts as equipped to the ship for the purposes of uniqueness.

It is specifically detailed to do so for the purposes of scoring ; whether it does so for the purposes of uniqueness is not touched on one way or the other.

The problem is that the only thing clear is that contained is not equipped as we know you don't equip Vader Squadron so unequipping and equipping "have nothing to do with containing".

Note that I am not taking any position here just pointing what I think are inconsistencies.

We need to agree about:

1. Whenever something is equipped or added to a fleet it is contained by that fleet.

2. Whenever something is unequipped (e.g. discarding it) it is removed from the fleet and it doesn't contain it anymore.

Also:

What about destroyed stuff? Rules don't say they are discarded. "Hyperspaced" things?

3 minutes ago, ovinomanc3r said:

The problem is that the only thing clear is that contained is not equipped as we know you don't equip Vader Squadron so unequipping and equipping "have nothing to do with containing".

Note that I am not taking any position here just pointing what I think are inconsistencies.

We need to agree about:

1. Whenever something is equipped or added to a fleet it is contained by that fleet.

2. Whenever something is unequipped (e.g. discarding it) it is removed from the fleet and it doesn't contain it anymore.

Also:

What about destroyed stuff? Rules don't say they are discarded. "Hyperspaced" things?

Destroyed things are "No longer in play."

Things that are awaiting Hyperspace are "Not in play."

Things that have Hyperspaced out in CC are "destroyed" for the purposes of scoring the game, and thus, "no longer in play"

In all cases, Both are still contained by the fleet. Just some of them are "not in play" and "inactive".. But they still exist, and they are not Discarded.

DESTROYED SHIPS AND SQUADRONS

• Destroyed ships and squadrons are no longer in play. All ship and upgrade cards belonging to destroyed ships are inactive. All squadron cards belonging to destroyed unique squadrons are inactive. Squadrons cards for destroyed non-unique squadrons are inactive when the last non-unique squadron of that type is destroyed.

17 minutes ago, ovinomanc3r said:

1. Whenever something is equipped or added to a fleet it is contained by that fleet.

2. Whenever something is unequipped (e.g. discarding it) it is removed from the fleet and it doesn't contain it anymore.

I think it's a reasonable assumption that a upgrade added to the fleet is contained by it, and one unequipped from a ship ceases to be contained by it.

I also think you can reasonably disagree, because I don't know of a source for either of those.

12 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

Destroyed things are "No longer in play."

Things that are awaiting Hyperspace are "Not in play."

Things that have Hyperspaced out in CC are "destroyed" for the purposes of scoring the game, and thus, "no longer in play"

In all cases, Both are still contained by the fleet. Just some of them are "not in play" and "inactive".. But they still exist, and they are not Discarded.

DESTROYED SHIPS AND SQUADRONS

• Destroyed ships and squadrons are no longer in play. All ship and upgrade cards belonging to destroyed ships are inactive. All squadron cards belonging to destroyed unique squadrons are inactive. Squadrons cards for destroyed non-unique squadrons are inactive when the last non-unique squadron of that type is destroyed.

I know. So could Chimaera equip AFFM if the Cymoon that brought AFFM is destroyed?

That is what I am talking about. Contained is different to equipped or in play.

Just now, ovinomanc3r said:

So could Chimaera equip AFFM if the Cymoon that brought AFFM is destroyed?

No.

Just now, Drasnighta said:

No.

But yes if the Cymoon discarded it at some point before blowing up.

Just now, ovinomanc3r said:

But yes if the Cymoon discarded it at some point before blowing up.

Yes.

As I rule, anyway.

Just now, Drasnighta said:

Yes.

As I rule, anyway.

That's what seems funny to me

2 minutes ago, ovinomanc3r said:

That's what seems funny to me

Rules are Rules.

Rules are not Fluff.

Rules define what is sensible. They do not conform to a real-world ideology.

Otherwise, they'd be guidelines.

Not Rules.