Is the timing on replace, the same as the timing on using a fleet command? Hence you can only do one or the other?

4 minutes ago, Ginkapo said:

Is the timing on replace, the same as the timing on using a fleet command? Hence you can only do one or the other?

No, Chimaera is the start of the Command Phase; Fleet Commands are the start of the Ship Phase.

So, Chimaera , then Fleet Command. Meaning you can dictate what Fleet Command you want immediately before you go to use it... always provided, of course, that you have the requisite token. Or are willing to burn the card and, effectively, the title.

Ooohh... There's another question: can you discard a card more than once if the effect discarding it is external to the card in question? I mean, it seems a safe assumption, but probably worth throwing in with the clarification emails.

My take on this is that discarded = no longer equipped (except for scoring purposes, as indicated in the RRG). Therefore can't be replaced.

I'm not sure how to link a card here, but its pretty obvious when it says discard then replace, you are replacing your discarded card. It's not going to stack for the purposes of scoring.

It's also pretty obvious if you discard the fleet command to activate its effect, you can no longer discard to replace it with a different fleet command due to timing effects.

15 minutes ago, Gadgetron said:

I t's also pretty obvious if you discard the fleet command to activate its effect, you can no longer discard to replace it with a different fleet command due to timing effects.

This is what I meant. Not everyone seems to agree that this is "pretty obvious", though.

My take on the situation given the available facts *, unique is one copy per fleet.

Discard , turn the card over but keep it on the table/ in the fleet. (its turned over to signify that it cant be used NOT that it is removed from the fleet roster)

Replace, put another card into the FC slot on the Ship

Put all of this together you have a one command you turn it over but leave it on the table, you then replace it with another card from your bag/collection. Because the other one is still on the table/ in the fleet, it cant be a copy of a card you've already used because if it is then you have multiples of a unique card in the fleet. No where does it say that the keyword unique is for list building only.....

*for all we know a full explanation of replace in the game sense it might be in the Chimeara booklet ... like how contain is with the Inderdictor.

I am "sure" about:

You cannot discard things twice so if you discarded the command fleet for any reason but Chimaera, Chimaera does nothing anymore that game.

You have not to pay the new command fleet as per the rules, that requirement works only when building a fleet and you are not building one at that point.

-When building a fleet, upgrade cards can be equipped to ships by adding their fleet point costs to the total fleet point cost.-

What I am not sure about:

1 Do the discard upgrades through Chimaera score?

At a first glance I would say yes.

-If a ship’s upgrade card is discarded, it is flipped facedown but remains equipped for the purposes of scoring.-

Also

-Discarded upgrade cards do not count toward a player’s score unless they are equipped to a destroyed ship.-

Here is a point of confusion to me. Are those upgrade still equipped? Rules say yes for scoring purposes and scoring ask for a discarded upgrade to be equipped. They are for scoring so I think they are not for any other rule. But the rules don't go deeper about it.

-When a card is discarded or flipped facedown, its effect is no longer active in the game.-

Here they talk about its effect, not the card. What I see is that if they are not equipped, uniqueness doesn't count here but then the replace word has no much sense unless as a clarification pointing to thisbother rule:

-For each upgrade icon in a ship’s upgrade bar, it may equip one upgrade card with the matching upgrade icon.-

So basically it would work as a remainder that the discarded card is no longer equipped so you would not breaking that rule. Not sold about it but this way you may change fleet commands as you wished without any problems but scoring everyone if the ship is destroyed.

If the discarded upgrades remain equipped, then the rules that talk about it are there just to clarify how they score but has nothing to do with equipment stuff. If that is the case, replace would clearly mean that the new upgrade would take the place of the previous one. As long as only one can be equipped on a ship at the same time the previous would not be equipped anymore and wouldn't score. Also this way uniqueness would work as long as the discarded upgrade is not replaced. Or is uniqueness part of a card's effect.

So to me the point is if a discarded upgrade remains equipped for other purposes than scoring.

I could be missing something else of course but that's the way I see it.

I would think, on further reflection, that by 'replace' they mean that you unequip the card and equip another of the same time. Otherwise, you could end up with all 4 FC cards in the same slot. You cannot equip more than one card to each slot, so the only way I think this would work is to unequip the previous card. Which also means that uniqueness doesn't matter, as the card is no longer in the game, nor does it count to the final score, as it is no longer equipped to the ship.

4 minutes ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

I would think, on further reflection, that by 'replace' they mean that you unequip the card and equip another of the same time. Otherwise, you could end up with all 4 FC cards in the same slot. You cannot equip more than one card to each slot, so the only way I think this would work is to unequip the previous card. Which also means that uniqueness doesn't matter, as the card is no longer in the game, nor does it count to the final score, as it is no longer equipped to the ship.

So for 4 points you gain access to fleet command slot and may change the chosen upgrade as you wish without any other penalty?

That sounds too good to be true but who knows? Phoenix Home is 3, Tua is 2. It could be.

Just now, ovinomanc3r said:

So for 4 points you gain access to fleet command slot and may change the chosen upgrade as you wish without any other penalty?

That sounds too good to be true but who knows? Phoenix Home is 3, Tua is 2. It could be.

Well, if you discard the card to use its effect (so not through the Chimera* title) you can no longer use the title, as there is no card to discard. So there is that.

*I know it's spelled differently, but I don't particularly care.

6 minutes ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

Well, if you discard the card to use its effect (so not through the Chimera* title) you can no longer use the title, as there is no card to discard. So there is that.

*I know it's spelled differently, but I don't particularly care.

Don't forget that the rules explicitly state that discarded upgrades count as being equipped for scoring purposes. So that would be another disadvantage: if your ship is destroyed, your opponent gets to count the currently equipped fleet command card, plus all the discarded ones as well.

Just now, RobertK said:

Don't forget that the rules explicitly state that discarded upgrades count as being equipped for scoring purposes. So that would be another disadvantage: if your ship is destroyed, your opponent gets to count the currently equipped fleet command card, plus all the discarded ones as well.

I didn't forget that, but I think the word 'replace' on the title ignores this, as the rules also state you cannot have two cards equipped to the same slot, which is what the title would allow you to do unless you considered the replaced card as unequipped. I think they were specific in their choice of words - 'replace' instead of just 'equip'.

If you discarded then equipped, without the word 'replace', then you flip the card face down and add another one face up. If you discarded, then replaced, you would put another card in the place of that discarded card, thus it is necessary to remove the other card to free up the space.

That is, at least, how I understand it.

Personally I think Chimera is too powerful. If it said to discard the Chimera card at the same time as you replace your fleet command so you could only do it once per game I still think it would be worth 4 points. Perhaps we will see the card altered before publication. It happened to Sato and there were 2 versions of Sloane previewed before release. It could be (conspiracy theory) that the reason FFG previewed this card while Wave 7 was still in development is that they were unsure of it and thought about a preview, then watch the reactions.

I wonder if we will see an increase in interest in the humble Ion Cannon Batteries to remove tokens from Chimera. Stop it changing its mind over the fleet command by removing the token stored on the ISD.

48 minutes ago, Mad Cat said:

Personally I think Chimera is too powerful.

I'm not sure about that... It takes quite a bit of planning, foresight, and points (9 is the cheapest way to get the combo) to have this work well for you. No only do you have to know which Fleet Command you'll need and when you'll need it, you also have to have the tokens to make it work. Since, barring Tarkin, you'll probably be waiting until turn 2 to even use 1 Fleet Command since you won't have a token to activate it, you would not be able to switch until turn 3. I can see its usefulness when you want to switch to Shields to Maximum at the end of the game to help keep things alive but switching three times will be extremely difficult.. and even twice will be a stretch.

2 hours ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

Well, if you discard the card to use its effect (so not through the Chimera* title) you can no longer use the title, as there is no card to discard. So there is that.

*I know it's spelled differently, but I don't particularly care.

That is not a real penalty as that happens with every other upgrade slot, artificially created or not.

Chimaera builds a fleet command slot better than the normal one. Losing an effect that the normal one wouldn't have anyways is not a drawback for me.

So if you don't count the discarded upgrades there is not drawback. If you do there is as the use of the advantage would be taking the risk of rewarding your opponent.

However I am not sure if the drawback is needed. I am not good at balancing points. Home Phoenix came with extra advantage too and cost just 3. And it's advantage doesn't require the use of the slot it adds.

5 hours ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

I didn't forget that, but I think the word 'replace' on the title ignores this, as the rules also state you cannot have two cards equipped to the same slot, which is what the title would allow you to do unless you considered the replaced card as unequipped. I think they were specific in their choice of words - 'replace' instead of just 'equip'.

I don't see that as necessarily contradicting "counts as equipped for the purposes of scoring ". As opposed to counting as equipped for all intents and purposes, "counts as equipped for scoring, but not for equipping other cards to the slot or for being used" doesn't seem hard to reconcile, if that was FFGs intent.

3 minutes ago, svelok said:

I don't see that as necessarily contradicting "counts as equipped for the purposes of scoring ". As opposed to counting as equipped for all intents and purposes, "counts as equipped for scoring, but not for equipping other cards to the slot or for being used" doesn't seem hard to reconcile, if that was FFGs intent.

Indeed, I guess you would be correct there.

18 minutes ago, svelok said:

I don't see that as necessarily contradicting "counts as equipped for the purposes of scoring ". As opposed to counting as equipped for all intents and purposes, "counts as equipped for scoring, but not for equipping other cards to the slot or for being used" doesn't seem hard to reconcile, if that was FFGs intent.

It would contradict the rule of 1 upgrade per slot but you also could argue that's only when building.

This is my take on this, NOT based on any specific rules, but simply my take on the game in general.

You can replace the FC card via Chimaera, as the card says. If you want later to use the one you had before, you can (i.e., discard if for affm, then back to if). When Chimaera is destroyed, you only count the cost of whatever is equipped at that time.

Just my take on it.

One question (maybe not related):

In the card, that have equipped is present perfect or a to have + participle?

I know present perfect is constructed with to have + participle.

In other words:

Is that have working as an auxiliar verb or as the verb to have?

The difference in Spanish would be huge!

24 minutes ago, ovinomanc3r said:

One question (maybe not related):

In the card, that have equipped is present perfect or a to have + participle?

I know present perfect is constructed with to have + participle.

In other words:

Is that have working as an auxiliar verb or as the verb to have?

The difference in Spanish would be huge!

Without really thinking through the mechanics of why right now, as a native speaker and English major my instinct was to interpret equipped as a participle*.

So, an ongoing state:

you [currently] have [the thing] equipped

rather than

you have [ever] equipped [the thing]

I think it's technically ambiguous, but I also think it's colloquially clear.

18 minutes ago, Ardaedhel said:

Without really thinking through the mechanics of why right now, as a native speaker and English major my instinct was to interpret equipped as a participle*.

So, an ongoing state:

you [currently] have [the thing] equipped

rather than

you have [ever] equipped [the thing]

I think it's technically ambiguous, but I also think it's colloquially clear.

*Is that actually a participle? "You have equipped" is an adjectival phrase, I think, but I'm not sure about the rest of the construction there... I'd have to think about it.

Well, I named it as participle cause I linked directly with to equip but I agree, sintactically speaking, in the first case it would be working as an adjective and by context it must be.

On 11/27/2017 at 0:57 PM, Drasnighta said:

I think the scoring is straightforward : score points for them all.

pretty sure unique will apply, too... but that will need a mention.

I would agree with this ruling, except that it does not benefit the Empire. Therefore I don't.

1 minute ago, Mikael Hasselstein said:

I would agree with this ruling, except that it does not benefit the Empire. Therefore I don't.

At least you have a reason, even if it is blind Imperislistic fascism. ?