4 hours ago, Ardaedhel said:

For what it's worth, just got some information on this. It's second-hand from a dev to me, so take it for what third-hand is worth... though this is how it was ruled at FFGC Regionals:

===================

1) What matters for scoring is what's written on the fleet sheet. The card will likely be errata'd to reword "discard" to "remove" or something like that; it will at least be FAQ'd to clarify that you don't score for each FC that has cycled through it. So an ISD2 Chimaera that deployed with EF, switched to STM, and then died, is only worth 129 points.

2) For similar reasons, there is no uniqueness conflict when reusing a previously-Chimaera-discarded upgrade a second time, e.g., IF -> STM -> IF, because "discard" is not used in the rigorous sense.

3) The uniqueness rule is a constant check, though, which means that you can't bring both Chimaera and an STM Cymoon and swap in a second copy of STM onto Chimaera to double up on it. I think we had pretty much nailed this one down anyway.

4) There is nothing preventing you from bringing a 5-point FC upgrade on Chimaera in a 400-point fleet and then swapping in a 6-pointer after that. Grats, you spent 4 points to gain 1, you sly dog. Again, I think this one was already pretty clear.

==================

Take it or leave it. I'm keenly aware that some of these interpretations conflict with RAW, which means TOs are well within their rights to rule differently until the FAQ rolls out in June 2018.

Do you have more rulings of that kind about others topic we wait an answer for?

Just now, ovinomanc3r said:

Do you have more rulings of that kind about others topic we wait an answer for?

Not really. Nothing any more solid than we already have, anyway: how things were ruled at the FFG Regionals. Specifically, that SAd was ruled restrictively. But we already knew that.

Just now, Ardaedhel said:

Not really. Nothing any more solid than we already have, anyway: how things were ruled at the FFG Regionals. Specifically, that SAd was ruled restrictively. But we already knew that.

I didn't so thanks!

3 minutes ago, Ardaedhel said:

Specifically, that SAd was ruled restrictively.

What does this mean?

7 minutes ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

What does this mean?

The ship she goes on have to be able to activate, I guess.

40 minutes ago, ovinomanc3r said:

The ship she goes on have to be able to activate, I guess.

Yeah, that.

Poor Leia, she cannot escape on Tantive IV with Profundity.

yay a problem with the proposed/rumoured FAQ before its released!!!

Unless its worded to be specific to actions that allow the discarding and re-equipping of cards so as not to hinder upgrades that allow the transfer of upgrades once the game has started.....

4 hours ago, Ardaedhel said:

Yeah, that.

And does that ship have to activate after or we may choose another one?

double double

double double

On 22.2.2018 at 5:31 AM, Ardaedhel said:

1) What matters for scoring is what's written on the fleet sheet. The card will likely be errata'd to reword "discard" to "remove" or something like that; it will at least be FAQ'd to clarify that you don't score for each FC that has cycled through it. So an ISD2 Chimaera that deployed with EF, switched to STM, and then died, is only worth 129 points.

Even when i like that there is finally a rule, and even a good one (it could have been worse ), i don't like that this rule is in contrariety to the tournament rules.

Calculating a Player’s Score
A player’s score helps determine who won the game in certain circumstances and is used to calculate Margin of Victory (see “Margin of Victory” on page 17). Each player calculates their score by adding together the total fleet point value of their opponent’s destroyed ships, including upgrade cards equipped to those ships , their opponent’s destroyed squadrons, and any additional points earned through objectives.

It really does not matter this much for the Cimaera (its 1 point more or less). But it does matter for the Profundity and all future cards.
The commander is not destroyed when he is on the Profundity dropped ship. But bye this rule at FFGC he suddenly is, even when flying around and giving out orders .

There was never a question if all the cards that the Chimaera used are counted or not. They are replaced, and are not part of the ship anymore this way (more or less ruled via Needa). It was only (at least for me) the question what upgrade card count. And following the Tournament rules it was clearly said.

Wow, quad post? There was a really big problem

2 hours ago, Tokra said:

It really does not matter this much for the Cimaera (its 1 point more or less). But it does matter for the Profundity and all future cards.
The commander is not destroyed when he is on the Profundity dropped ship.

That is of course an informal statement. It will surely be worded in such a way that it doesn't cover the Profundity when the actual FAQ comes out.

... right?

Or maybe I'm just giving FFG too much credit...

So basically what we have is:

• With the Chimaera you discard... in such a way as not to be able to trigger that Fleet Command for free before it leaves the table.
• Then, after the card has been discarded, it is REPLACED. Ie it gets removed from play, like say a discarded token. And it place of it a new Fleet Command appears.
• Since the old Fleet Command has been REMOVED FROM PLAY:
  • It does not count for scoring, only the card equipped when the ship is destroyed counts
  • You can totally bring back the same Fleet Command over and over...since it's been replaced, it's uniqueness is no longer relevant?

2 minutes ago, Green Knight said:

So basically what we have is:

• With the Chimaera you discard... in such a way as not to be able to trigger that Fleet Command for free before it leaves the table.
• Then, after the card has been discarded, it is REPLACED. Ie it gets removed from play, like say a discarded token. And it place of it a new Fleet Command appears.
• Since the old Fleet Command has been REMOVED FROM PLAY:
  • It does not count for scoring, only the card equipped when the ship is destroyed counts
  • You can totally bring back the same Fleet Command over and over...since it's been replaced, it's uniqueness is no longer relevant?

Sounds right to me, yep.

So we can errata Chimaera to change from 'you may discard 1' to you may remove from this ship 1'

18 minutes ago, slasher956 said:

So we can errata Chimaera to change from 'you may discard 1' to you may remove from this ship 1'

No.

The discard mechanic had to be there, to stop you from using the discard mechanic of the card to trigger, and then the simple remove to replace it - without it, you get a free fleet command every turn for no token no cost...

its kind of like the exhaust mechanic... you can’t exhaust something that is exhausted, so you can’t discard something that is discarded...

58 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

No.

The discard mechanic had to be there, to stop you from using the discard mechanic of the card to trigger, and then the simple remove to replace it - without it, you get a free fleet command every turn for no token no cost...

its kind of like the exhaust mechanic... you can’t exhaust something that is exhausted, so you can’t discard something that is discarded...

so clearer text would be ' instead of discarding you may remove' so you have the discard mechanic involved but its still clear that you are taking the card away from the ship..

But then we're back in to the realms of text v space of a small card.....

I am of the opinion that this is required for an FAQ (If indeed, all that is needed is to make sure it doesn't count all discards in a ballooning fashion):

Chimaera
"Removing" the fleet command card removes it from the game, no longer counting as discarded for the purposes of scoring.

No errata needed. No other changes. Problem solved.

On 2/22/2018 at 5:31 AM, Ardaedhel said:

For what it's worth, just got some information on this. It's second-hand from a dev to me, so take it for what third-hand is worth... though this is how it was ruled at FFGC Regionals:

===================

1) What matters for scoring is what's written on the fleet sheet. The card will likely be errata'd to reword "discard" to "remove" or something like that; it will at least be FAQ'd to clarify that you don't score for each FC that has cycled through it. So an ISD2 Chimaera that deployed with EF, switched to STM, and then died, is only worth 129 points.

2) For similar reasons, there is no uniqueness conflict when reusing a previously-Chimaera-discarded upgrade a second time, e.g., IF -> STM -> IF, because "discard" is not used in the rigorous sense.

3) The uniqueness rule is a constant check, though, which means that you can't bring both Chimaera and an STM Cymoon and swap in a second copy of STM onto Chimaera to double up on it. I think we had pretty much nailed this one down anyway.

4) There is nothing preventing you from bringing a 5-point FC upgrade on Chimaera in a 400-point fleet and then swapping in a 6-pointer after that. Grats, you spent 4 points to gain 1, you sly dog. Again, I think this one was already pretty clear.

==================

Take it or leave it. I'm keenly aware that some of these interpretations conflict with RAW, which means TOs are well within their rights to rule differently until the FAQ rolls out in June 2018.

As I suspected.