Yeah, that pre-order screen just popped up for me... Any confirmation on dates?

https://shop.fantasyflightgames.com/preorders/create/SWM29/

1 hour ago, Kalic89 said:

Anywhere between now and the rise of the Galactic Empire

A long time ago in a galaxy far far away?

5 hours ago, Divad said:

Forgive me, but why are people keen for IF on TRC90's for "3 guaranteed damage"?

Guaranteed is better than random. TRCs for maximum and any result other than a blank on the third with CF. IF is better than Leia, because of that certainty. Firing 3 unavoidable damage downrange is nice, especially with a modifier like Intel Officer forcing hard decisions on the part of the opponent. Do I use my brace/redirect for this 3 damage, or not?

Weren't you rebels eager for your own kind of auto-damage the Empire enjoys in Mithel and Fett? Now you have two cards giving you that option. And with IF on a cheaper platform you have more latitude in the rest of your list while still guaranteeing IF every turn.

17 minutes ago, Norsehound said:

Guaranteed is better than random. TRCs for maximum and any result other than a blank on the third with CF. IF is better than Leia, because of that certainty. Firing 3 unavoidable damage downrange is nice, especially with a modifier like Intel Officer forcing hard decisions on the part of the opponent. Do I use my brace/redirect for this 3 damage, or not?

Weren't you rebels eager for your own kind of auto-damage the Empire enjoys in Mithel and Fett? Now you have two cards giving you that option. And with IF on a cheaper platform you have more latitude in the rest of your list while still guaranteeing IF every turn.

I like the idea simply for the double arc. Fire your single red from the side arc first. TRC it if blank. Then roll your two reds from the from. Odds of getting 2 blanks seems low, so you're looking at 2 hits or 1 hit + accuracy most of the time

Is it worth the 56 + 6 cost? Maybe not, when you could just grab another TRC90 for 11 points cheaper.

22 minutes ago, Norsehound said:

IF is better than Leia, because of that certainty.

Minor quibble in that they're doing different things and she's not ONLY con-firing with ships. Her ability helps ships potentially reroll when they concentrate fire, but IF works on any ship rolling dice. It doesn't help you with any other command of hers, though.

16 hours ago, Thalomen said:

<sigh> "I" did not say retrofitted. They said "repainted and retrofitted" in the article. It all depends on what THEY mean. Here is the quote for clarity: "Arriving as part of the Chimaera Expansion Pack , which features a repainted and retrofitted Imperial -class Star Destroyer as well as two Mandalorian Gauntlet squadrons, the Grand Admiral is undoubtedly the star of the wave." (Bold added)

The model is a repaint, we know that; they are obviously talking about the model. But they also say its "retrofitted." What, I am asking, does that mean?

Kuat and Cymoon Refit.....

5 hours ago, Divad said:

Forgive me, but why are people keen for IF on TRC90's for "3 guaranteed damage"? The TRC already changes a Black to a Hit-Hit/Crit, therefore to even need the IF, you will need to roll double Blacks (or Accuracy when it isn't wanted) [Math: 3/8 x 3/8= 0.14]. Thus you have an 86% chance of NOT needing IF from 2 red dice .

Throw in a 3rd red dice , ie the side arc, or a C.F. red dice: you need at least 2 out of 3 to be Blank to use IF [Math: 3/8 x (1-5/8 x 5/8) = 0.33]. Thus you have a 67% chance of NOT needing IF. Those are figures that assume Accuracy are useless, which in many cases they are not.

I am looking forward to IF more for ships like Nebulon B, Hammerhead, AFM2 (and of course the Pelta itself), which I don't want to equip TRC thus can spare their only Evade token. In this case you only need one Black to utilize IF, thus the math on 2 red dice unmodified [Math: 5/8 x 5/8= 0.39] equates to a 39% of NOT needing IF.

With 3rd red dice of Nebulon/AFM2/C.F HH [Math: 5/8 x 5/8 x 5/8= .24] means 24% chance of NOT needing IF.

Don't forget that TRC can modify hits into something better. You're not including that in your math at all. IF can be used to fix a blank, while TRC can be used to up the red hit or crit to a double hit. IF can be used to increase the damage of your blanks (25%) and your accuracies if you feel the need (additional 12.5%). TRC can be used to up the damage of blanks (25%), hits (25%), crits (25%). So when you are talking pure damage hunting, TRC benefits 75% of the options, and IF benefits 37.5%. Don't forget that TRC can also change hits to crits which can be useful also. Not hard to see how you could use both on almost every roll you take, but the effects of course increase the more dice you through.

Take TRC90s with Ackbar though. Side arc throws 3 red dice. CF it to 4 red dice. Roll hit, crit, accuracy, blank. Change it to hit, crit, double hit, hit and you've upped the damage by 3 to 5. Roll accuracy, accuracy, blank, hit. Change to hit, hit, double hit, accuracy (increased by 3 dmg to 4). Lets say you roll good and get hit, hit, double hit, blank. Change to crit, hit, hit, double hit (increased by 1 damage and moved a hit to a crit). With 4 dice, there would be few rolls where you couldn't modify at least two dice. Can't count the number of times when 4 reds gave me 1-3 accuracy, 1 damage, and blanks. A lot of good that does. And if by some miracle I rolled a roll that I don't need both upgrades for...well shucks. I'm not utilizing a fleet wide cheap upgrade for that 1 attack. For it's price, it wouldn't need to be used on EVERY attack to be worth it's cost.

It's not so much a single CR90 that is interesting here though, its the fact that you can start upping some damage consistently on very cheap platforms. Hammerhead is another solid option, however to really utilize IF, the hammerhead needs to get up close and personal. A TRC90a with IF can be a serious threat round after round while staying at longer ranges and avoiding return dice. TRC90s can throw a minimum 3 damage at long range from the front arc. Double arcs or Ackbar and they start throwing consistently more damage. If an enemy ship gets in to medium range, you're upping it yet again.

I've never been a fan of fleet commands previously but now I want to try IF

I am a bit disappointed it can't be used on Anti Squadron shots

It would make blue dice AS ships much more effective

35 minutes ago, Shadoq said:

I've never been a fan of fleet commands previously but now I want to try IF

I am a bit disappointed it can't be used on Anti Squadron shots

It would make blue dice AS ships much more effective

'Much more effective'? It would guarantee 1 damage per squadron attacked on any dice color.

31 minutes ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

'Much more effective'? It would guarantee 1 damage per squadron attacked on any dice color.

I wish. Ship to squad AA has been a bust for me

1 hour ago, Shadoq said:

I've never been a fan of fleet commands previously but now I want to try IF

I am a bit disappointed it can't be used on Anti Squadron shots

It would make blue dice AS ships much more effective

28 minutes ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

'Much more effective'? It would guarantee 1 damage per squadron attacked on any dice color.

I think a hull limitation instead of defender type or number of attacks would have been interesting and matching lore.

This way you could guaranteed 1 damage per attack as long as the attacking hull zone was the same (boosting GT and AA fire). Not so bad against ships, not so good against squadron and forcing squadron to share love with other hull zones.

44 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:

I wish. Ship to squad AA has been a bust for me

1 hour ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

'Much more effective'? It would guarantee 1 damage per squadron attacked on any dice color.

Ship to squad AA has been horribly polarized in my opinion.

On one hand you have the double black Raiders with OE that can flak most things very well. Especially generics.

on the other hand you have ships like VSDs and a lot of Rebs with one blue die that frankly is a joke most of the time. Blue dice are just as fickle as Reds when doing AS shots. Those ships need a boost. And no, Point Defense Reroute is not a solution .

Another solution would be an upgrade card a la Shara Bey's ability. "When attacking squadrons, crits count as 1 damage". Not re rolling and still having a 50% chance of whiffing.

7 minutes ago, Shadoq said:

On the other hand you have ships like VSDs and a lot of Rebs with one blue die that frankly is a joke most of the time. Blue dice are just as fickle as Reds when doing AS shots. Those ships need a boost.

Did Toryn Farr stop existing or something?

18 minutes ago, Shadoq said:

Another solution would be an upgrade card a la Shara Bey's ability. "When attacking squadrons, crits count as 1 damage". Not re rolling and still having a 50% chance of whiffing.

Or, you know, bring Raiders/ISDs/Nebs/AFs/Kallus or Toryn, etc. If a player isn’t planning to use the flak options already in the game (and there’s nothing wrong with that), it’s not because there aren’t enough of them, and it’s time to use some fighters. If we buff the good battery, poor flak ships, especially with an upgrade, then 1. those ships lose an important drawback and 2. the ships with good flak will then have insane flak.

14 hours ago, kmanweiss said:

Don't forget that TRC can modify hits into something better. You're not including that in your math at all. IF can be used to fix a blank, while TRC can be used to up the red hit or crit to a double hit. IF can be used to increase the damage of your blanks (25%) and your accuracies if you feel the need (additional 12.5%). TRC can be used to up the damage of blanks (25%), hits (25%), crits (25%). So when you are talking pure damage hunting, TRC benefits 75% of the options, and IF benefits 37.5%. Don't forget that TRC can also change hits to crits which can be useful also. Not hard to see how you could use both on almost every roll you take, but the effects of course increase the more dice you through.

Take TRC90s with Ackbar though. Side arc throws 3 red dice. CF it to 4 red dice. Roll hit, crit, accuracy, blank. Change it to hit, crit, double hit, hit and you've upped the damage by 3 to 5. Roll accuracy, accuracy, blank, hit. Change to hit, hit, double hit, accuracy (increased by 3 dmg to 4). Lets say you roll good and get hit, hit, double hit, blank. Change to crit, hit, hit, double hit (increased by 1 damage and moved a hit to a crit). With 4 dice, there would be few rolls where you couldn't modify at least two dice. Can't count the number of times when 4 reds gave me 1-3 accuracy, 1 damage, and blanks. A lot of good that does. And if by some miracle I rolled a roll that I don't need both upgrades for...well shucks. I'm not utilizing a fleet wide cheap upgrade for that 1 attack. For it's price, it wouldn't need to be used on EVERY attack to be worth it's cost.

It's not so much a single CR90 that is interesting here though, its the fact that you can start upping some damage consistently on very cheap platforms. Hammerhead is another solid option, however to really utilize IF, the hammerhead needs to get up close and personal. A TRC90a with IF can be a serious threat round after round while staying at longer ranges and avoiding return dice. TRC90s can throw a minimum 3 damage at long range from the front arc. Double arcs or Ackbar and they start throwing consistently more damage. If an enemy ship gets in to medium range, you're upping it yet again.

Why would I include TRC specifically in the Math? Their value is undisputed and I assume the 1st blank roll would be using TRC. My post was evaluating IF as a second source of Dice Modification, and how it reaches saturation point with small red dice pools.

Taking TRC and IF with Ackbar is a way of getting larger red dice attack pools, therefore red dice modification would not have reached saturation. That said you can not double arc, so total red dice is the same. This would be ok, however you do need a Pelta in a list that isn't overly thrilled to have it. Your examples aren't particularly helpful, I know how the upgrade works. I'll see if I can work out the Math for 4 red dice, as that seem the limit CR90s can roll, but I need to go to work. And I am painfully aware that unlucky rolls exist, but does it justify bringing an expensive upgrade as a back-up to the TRC?

From previous page; "Have you ever played or played against a TRC90 swarm? You must deal damage with every attack because you're only dealing out 2-3 damage per attack. If you can't deal out consistent damage, you're not going to kill anything.

In regards to your math, I think something is off, but I don't know what."

I have not played many games, but TRC90s are currently effective. They survive in the pre-IF era just fine and are one of the Rebel's most reliable ships. I am confident in my math, but someone feel free to check. Note that I counted accuracy as blank, which is a worst case scenario. The part [Math: 3/8 x (1-5/8 x 5/8) = 0.33] might look weird, but it is the product of [1 miss] and [at least 1 out of 2 miss]. [At least 1 out of 2 miss] is worked out as One subtract %chance both hit (ie 5/8).

Consider the cost of stacking TRC and IF on ships. IF costs 6, plus the cost of a Pelta, plus cost of token generating strategy. Is it worth that investment over an extra TRC90 with points to spare?

---Update with more Math---

Included my working of the Math for those interested or in doubt, not as complex as it may seem...

Step one: formulate table of permutations, then grouped into columns by number of hits; m = miss, h= hit

Step 2: Calculating %chance of individual permutation, ie of mmmm= 3/8*3/8*3/8*3/8= 2%, mmmh=3/8*3/8*3/8*5/8= 3.3%, etc

Step 3: Multiplying individual %chance of permutations by number of permutations in that category/column (with this setup all permutations within the same group have the same %chance, e.g. mmhm is 3.3%, same as mmmh), ie for 1 hit, multiply 3.3% by 4= 13%. Thus;

0h= 2% 1h= 13% 2h= 33% 3h= 37% 4h= 15%

Step 4: Add groups and interpret.

Thus for a 4 red dice attack, where I consider accuracy as worthless as a blank, the odds of rolling at least 2 blank/accuracy and thus needing both IF and TRC is 48%.

22 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

I spelt it out in particular, previously, in reference to the Nose Punch.

Hondo, for all of his benefit to you, allows your enemy to avoid the trap you have set in one of two ways.

Also, my gameplay is pretty good. It’s the fact that my dice are “statistically abysmal “ that really holds me back.

Also, lack of practice right now, too.

Ahhhh....yes. See, you're too logical to believe in appeasing the dice gods, and so, they frown on your rolls.

and yeah, I feel you, I'm getting rusty as **** myself over here.

Let's hope more upgrades will be revealed soon cause i don't wanna wait anymore ???

Here are some great reasons to include both TRC and IF.

#1 Fickle dice. You can talk math and averages till the end of time, but bad rolls can and will happen, and they can cost you the game. Having a way to modify extra dice mitigates this issue. If you are talking a MSU style list, you need to make sure those attacks matter.

#2 TRC has a cost. Don't forget that triggering TRC costs an evade. You may be in a situation where you have spent all your evades, or don't want to discard them, or decide that you need to save them for defense purposes. The fact that you have IF still gives you the ability to modify dice to your advantage without paying the cost for TRC.

#3 TRC can't be used for double arc attacks. TRC requires an exhaust, which means it can only be used on one arc. So if you are double arcing, IF allows you to modify dice in the 2nd arc. TRC allows you to modify 1 die in a double arc situation, where IF allows you to modify 2, and both combined give you 3 total modified dice.

#5 TRC is limited to red dice, IF is not. This again gives you more flexibility

As for cost. The pelta, Antilles, and IF is only 18 points more than a TRC90a. It gives fleet wide assistance. It rolls the same red dice as a CR90a, so it can contribute to the fight too. It's not just dead weight. I look at it more like 18 points for damage insurance.

I just pulled up the dice app and rolled 3 red dice 5 times. 3 of the rolls had double blanks. Did another 5 rolls and 2 of the rolls had double blanks. Did another 5 rolls and had nothing I needed IF on, and didn't even need TRC on 2 of the rolls. 18 points to eek out 5 more damage over 3 rounds? Not a bad investment, and that is before considering any situations like attacking from two arcs, or not wanting or needing to use evades, or how that extra damage at just the right time might have finished off a ship instead of letting it live and escape/repair.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say that it's required, or that a TRC90a IF list will be king of the meta. I'm just saying there are certainly reasons to double up on ways to guarantee damage.

Oh how cute, now the Imperials can equip fleet command onto any Star Destroyer and can even swap out upgrade cards for more expensive upgrades potentially allowing them to exceed the points limits for lists.

Meanwhile, the MC80 Command Cruiser does not have, and will probably never have, access to fleet command despite the fact that Home One is supposed to be the flagship of the entire Rebel Alliance Fleet .

I can't wait for Wave 8 to release the Braha'tok -class gunships alongside the Executor class Star Destroyer. To be honest though, I am even more excited for the article explaining how it will be the most balanced and super fun release ever . Thankfully that happy day probably isn't happening anytime before 2020.

1 hour ago, Mon Cala Blue said:

Oh how cute, now the Imperials can equip fleet command onto any Star Destroyer and can even swap out upgrade cards for more expensive upgrades potentially allowing them to exceed the points limits for lists.

Meanwhile, the MC80 Command Cruiser does not have, and will probably never have, access to fleet command despite the fact that Home One is supposed to be the flagship of the entire Rebel Alliance Fleet .

I can't wait for Wave 8 to release the Braha'tok -class gunships alongside the Executor class Star Destroyer. To be honest though, I am even more excited for the article explaining how it will be the most balanced and super fun release ever . Thankfully that happy day probably isn't happening anytime before 2020.

They can equip them to any ISD, for a price. But keep in mind that FCs were rebel only since wave 5. Imps are only getting them starting with wave 7.

As for exceeding point limits. It's a 1 point difference at most. We also need some rules clarifications that may end up showing a pretty serious negative side effect of swapping.

There are many ways for FFG to incorporate FCs to previous ships....just as they did with the ISD. First off, the MC75 may have FC, we don't know yet. Secondly, they could introduce new titles for previous ships (as they did with the ISD) through a repainted edition or through a new campaign. Third, they could include a new upgrade in the MC75 or future wave that allows us to trade 1 upgrade slot for a FC upgrade slot (offensive retrofit for example) to enable other ships to be FC ships. Fourth, they could include a new officer card like Tua that could grant a FC to any large or medium ship in the Rebel fleet. There are probably a number of other ways they could do it also.

22 hours ago, geek19 said:

Did Toryn Farr stop existing or something?

as I play strictly Imperial, she sucks. I wish we could use an equivalent.

3 minutes ago, ripper998 said:

as I play strictly Imperial, she sucks. I wish we could use an equivalent.

You got swarm, you got Raiders, I got my gal who could ask for anything morrrrrrrre!

1 hour ago, Mon Cala Blue said:

Oh how cute, now the Imperials can equip fleet command onto any Star Destroyer and can even swap out upgrade cards for more expensive upgrades potentially allowing them to exceed the points limits for lists.

Meanwhile, the MC80 Command Cruiser does not have, and will probably never have, access to fleet command despite the fact that Home One is supposed to be the flagship of the entire Rebel Alliance Fleet .

I can't wait for Wave 8 to release the Braha'tok -class gunships alongside the Executor class Star Destroyer. To be honest though, I am even more excited for the article explaining how it will be the most balanced and super fun release ever . Thankfully that happy day probably isn't happening anytime before 2020.

Dude, are fc-s so amazing, will they be gamebreakers for the empire? For the effect of IF there is Vader, for EF there is Ozzel, STM-->Motti. AFFM is almost useless as most of the fighters already outrun the rebels. Poor poor rebels... Btw, you can be sure rebels will have acces to experimental stuff soon.

On 11/27/2017 at 9:39 PM, Norsehound said:

With comms nets they beam the ammunition into the Chimaera to fuel all the Gozanti Guns that are firing downrange

The Pelta doesn't have to be anywhere near combat. You deploy it last, far away from combat, where it replaces the GR-75s as your admiral sedan and free activation padding. Then every other turn, let the rest of your gunline rip on the largest target you want to destroy. The only downside is you need some fighter cover, because IF won't cover AA attacks. That's fine if the opponent doesn't bring any rogues, since you can rapidly reduce any carriers to space dust.

Except this doesn't work in practice. The Pelta is too expensive (especially with a Fleet Command attached) to be doing nothing else except serving as a Commander Lifeboat / Activation. As anecdotal evidence, I'd point to the fact that we've never seen Pelta-containing lists doing well on the table in large events. I love the look of the Pelta and I think it's one of my favorite Rebel ships in the lore, yet even I can never find a list that justifies including it, because no matter how much synergy I can squeeze out of a Pelta I always find myself thinking "Why the heck would I not just swap this Pelta for an MC30 Torpedo boat with OE and APT... it's better in every way for the same cost?" And then I either scrap the list or drop the Pelta for that MC30.

The fact remains that even if a the Pleta were worthwhile, the Imperials now get four times the flexibility (since it can grab any of the four Fleet Commands during the game) for 4pts, so heck they could almost bring a Raider (Commander Lifeboat), Gozanti (Activation), and the Chimera Title + FC for just a few points more than a Pelta+FC. That's twice the activations with four times the Fleet Commands, plus the Raider is a vastly superior Commander Lifeboat because it is so fast and maneuverable compared to the Pelta chassis with its piddling Speed 2.

So this just seems like a gigantic middle-finger to the Pelta class, even if the Pelta were a great choice for Rebel Fleets.

2 hours ago, Mon Cala Blue said:

Oh how cute, now the Imperials can equip fleet command onto any Star Destroyer and can even swap out upgrade cards for more expensive upgrades potentially allowing them to exceed the points limits for lists.

Meanwhile, the MC80 Command Cruiser does not have, and will probably never have, access to fleet command despite the fact that Home One is supposed to be the flagship of the entire Rebel Alliance Fleet .

I can't wait for Wave 8 to release the Braha'tok -class gunships alongside the Executor class Star Destroyer. To be honest though, I am even more excited for the article explaining how it will be the most balanced and super fun release ever . Thankfully that happy day probably isn't happening anytime before 2020.