4 hours ago, Vineheart01 said:Personally, not sure where he gets the "evade is usually unused" from.
If you are running multiple x7's and your opponent is focus firing, as most are want to do, then you probably have a defender that is going to end the round with an Evade token left unused.
^To add to the x-7 explanation, you do 3+ moves so often that you can easily recover the intensity in a turn or two if you use both tokens to protect yourself. I'd still prefer ptl on Ryad because of green 5s but intesity makes a lot of sense for Vessery.
I think you're misrepresenting the utility of have two tokens through the combat phase. That influences who gets shot. People tend to look elsewhere if they see Jake with focus/evade or focus/focus. If you use PTL to focus/evade you don't get a reposition. Then if you spend both tokens you are focusing on the fact that you must recharge rather than the fact you got use out of an action that PTL couldnt provide. Furthermore, you aren't accounting for the times you use PTL and don't use the focus or evade. With intensity you're back where you started. With PTL you are now stressed and must do a green. Good opponents will pounce on that. I don't buy that PTL gives you less "recovery turns" where you have to disengage.
Additionally, PTL cannot get you two focus tokens. That can be invaluable when focused or defending TLT.
23 minutes ago, kris40k said:If you are running multiple x7's and your opponent is focus firing, as most are want to do, then you probably have a defender that is going to end the round with an Evade token left unused.
100% this. It doesn’t even have to be another x/7. I had a list with x/7 rexler and an unguided rocket tomax. Most of my opponents started with killing the bomber, which left rexler free to spend his focus to fire (and later pop his pilot ability, lwf on the bomber made him tough to kill). Then spend the evade because no one was shooting at him that round, then rinse and repeat. Luckily I didn’t face a stress hog that day or I would have been in serious trouble.
4 hours ago, Ohnoeszz said:Additionally, PTL cannot get you two focus tokens. That can be invaluable when focused or defending TLT.
Evade + Focus is better than 2x focus in pretty much all contexts (bar homing missiles). Even with autothrusters, the evade token is still better than the focus token on defence.
Intensity does give you the ability to double focus and boost + BR, but you're not really gaining action economy just postponing it (it's still useful). You just run into trouble when you want to Evade + Focus up to defend, or TL + focus for damage (maybe PRockets). Intensity keeps your dial open, and does give you a burst of action economy, but it's more constrained than PtL, which in contrast gives you absolute control over the actions you do.
17 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:To summarize:
Intensity can give you a very short boost in one turn which jeopardizes the rest of his game - it forces Jake to disengage and run away to recharge Intensity when he wants to stick close and hammer those range 1 shots in.
Push the Limit can not give you this burst of actions, but provides actions more reliably over the whole game - while locking you into your dial. But that was not a problem for Soontir, so why should it be one for Jake? PTL Jake also lets you put a focus on offense, defense or arc dodging however you need it. Most importantly, it allows you the choice of one or the other!
I agree with your logic, but I also disagree with some of your analysis 
I have flown Jake quite a bit with Intensity since its release (I flew him with PTL before that [I like A-wings]). I completely agree with analysis of PTLs value, but I disagree when it comes to your analysis of Intensity. I can't really objectively say which is better, but Intensity is definitely my preferred option.
I agree with @Herowannabe in that the ratio of Intensity giving you the full 4 actions is in the 'more often than not' category. I regularly have a spare token to flip Intensity most rounds.
Stepping away from that, you mentioned having to disengage more often when using Intensity. Whilst I don't believe you need to disengage any more than with PTL, that play style does synergize well with Jake and A-wings in general. I never expect A-wings to do damage, and I fly them accordingly. They are a nuisance ship in my opinion. Having a completely free dial really helps the hit and run tactic, and intensity just seems made for it. But that obviously all comes down to play style, I play Jake purely as a mouse for cats to chase, and I find that whilst PTL usually will give you a better token stack when you are getting hit, the benefit of Intensity is I don't get in positions to be hit as often.
4 hours ago, BVRCH said:I agree with @Herowannabe in that the ratio of Intensity giving you the full 4 actions is in the 'more often than not' category. I regularly have a spare token to flip Intensity most rounds.
Fair. My thought process is this:
If you don't spend the 2nd token because you recharge Intensity, then you only had 3 actions. Counting it as 4 is mental accounting.
If you do spend the 2nd token then you have to immediately recharge Intensity the next turn. In that case you get 4+2 actions over two turns, or 3 per average. As soon as you were forced to spend that token, too, and can't recharge immediately after then you are 1 action behind PTL which always gets 3 actions.
The mistake in my logic is probably that there are situations where you won't spend your focus/evade anyway, PTL or Intensity. Meaning you'll "lose" actions with both upgrades along the way.
But if you did spend them always then you'd be better off with PTL.
I loved to play Jake against TLTs and Dash, or to hunt down a Palpshuttle. You can just stick there forever in range 1 behind the ship, and force a reaction. One of my most fun lists to play was Jake, Poe and Braylen/Stresshog. I plan to definitely try that again with the Stressbug!
On 28/11/2017 at 7:49 PM, GreenDragoon said:Fair. My thought process is this:
If you don't spend the 2nd token because you recharge Intensity, then you only had 3 actions. Counting it as 4 is mental accounting.
If you do spend the 2nd token then you have to immediately recharge Intensity the next turn. In that case you get 4+2 actions over two turns, or 3 per average. As soon as you were forced to spend that token, too, and can't recharge immediately after then you are 1 action behind PTL which always gets 3 actions.The mistake in my logic is probably that there are situations where you won't spend your focus/evade anyway, PTL or Intensity. Meaning you'll "lose" actions with both upgrades along the way.
But if you did spend them always then you'd be better off with PTL.I loved to play Jake against TLTs and Dash, or to hunt down a Palpshuttle. You can just stick there forever in range 1 behind the ship, and force a reaction. One of my most fun lists to play was Jake, Poe and Braylen/Stresshog. I plan to definitely try that again with the Stressbug!
Yeah I can see your point. The way I see it is it's not a lost action because, either you need the second token and it's there to use, or you don't need it and you have a use for it (recharging intensity) rather than simply discarding it for no effect.
I agree, there are a lot of variables within each game that would determine its value. PTL would definitely be the nicer option hunting ships at range 1, whereas guerrilla fighting at longer range suits intensity.
I'm also quite keen for the little stressbug, the potential coordinated action on Jake is another big plus too.
if only intensity worked on a TIE phantom's decloak action.........................................
#bringphantomsback
On 11/27/2017 at 4:08 AM, CRCL said:Yeah agreed. IMO Intensity is pretty much binder fodder, unless you're Poe.
I've found Intensity really nice on /x7 Defenders. Frequently, having Focus/BR is better than BR/Evade, and Intensity does that for you. With the limited number of viable moves on a Defender, having access to a barrel roll is huge. In practice, there are lots of times when you're just not getting shot at. Opponents focus fire, or don't have arc, so that Evade token often gets wasted.
On 11/27/2017 at 3:44 AM, GreenDragoon said:To summarize:
Intensity can give you a very short boost in one turn which jeopardizes the rest of his game - it forces Jake to disengage and run away to recharge Intensity when he wants to stick close and hammer those range 1 shots in.
Push the Limit can not give you this burst of actions, but provides actions more reliably over the whole game - while locking you into your dial. But that was not a problem for Soontir, so why should it be one for Jake? PTL Jake also lets you put a focus on offense, defense or arc dodging however you need it. Most importantly, it allows you the choice of one or the other!
I think there's still a niche role for an Intensity Jake Farrel, if only because of the cheapness. Intensity Jake with Chardaan, Autothrusters, and a 0-point Elite (Adaptability or Trick Shot) is 26 points. That's only 2 cheaper than VI/PTL, but that can make a difference. Taking Intensity on a Jake with PRockets just seems nutty to me--Chardaan and Chardaan only will do, since the only superior thing about Intensity is that it costs less. With PRockets specifically, without easy access to a TL, you'll be missing out on so much with that 5 dice attack. PTL is necessary to get the level of burst that would make a standard Jake worth taking.
If you're just putting in a point filler, 26 for a Jake could be spend in worse ways.
Or better, for that matter. As stated in the OP, 2 red dice doesn't really cut it.
On 11/27/2017 at 4:42 PM, Ohnoeszz said:^To add to the x-7 explanation, you do 3+ moves so often that you can easily recover the intensity in a turn or two if you use both tokens to protect yourself. I'd still prefer ptl on Ryad because of green 5s but intesity makes a lot of sense for Vessery.
As with Jake, a primary virtue of Intensity is its cheapness. Intensity Ryad is 34 points, PTL/TIE Mk. II is 36 points (PTL requires Mk.II as well). That's not nothing.
I just wish I could take 3x Glaives, but it doesn't fit.
In general, I kind of think Intensity/x7 is the kind of thing which is better on the table than on paper. Lots of combos in this game are the other way around: they seem great on paper, but when placed on the table they don't live up to this. I think Ix7 is the other way. On paper, it tends to be easy to overlook how many unspent tokens there will be, how often you'll be able to get into much stronger positions, and the benefit of simply being less predictable in a highly-predictable ship like a Defender. I know I did at first.
Ix7 also works really differently from Jake or Poe. These two guys will pretty much want to flip Intensity every turn. Defenders don't mind as much not flipping it. They're not being flown as arc-dodgers, but as jousters and tanks. Particularly with the white K-turns to keep arc, and with double-token every turn, it isn't a large loss. When someone like Jake (or R2-D2/Comm Relay Poe) needs to do a recharge, it's a lot more costly.
I'm bumping up this thread as I think Jake Farrel's intensity combo has not been clarified enough...
You're all talking about getting 2 focuses and 2 repositions, BUT, I've played it and seen it played different. In fact, I asked several TOs about it, and they all agreed on Intensity Jake doing FIVE actions. So here's how it goes:
You move and take a focus action. The focus gives you a Boost/BR action, which triggers Intensity for another Focus. Normally you would flip intensity back, but as you received a focus from the reposition action, Jake's ability triggers again, giving you the Boost/BR action you didn't take before. That would give you another focus/evade. I'd take an evade, as there are no more repositions to do, and you alrerady have 2 focuses... Then, you flip intensity. Now you have 3 tokens, and only need one to flip intensity back...
With VI, Intensity, Test pilot title, Prockets and AT you get a really nice slippery ship for 32p
Isn't this the way Intensity should work?
On 11/27/2017 at 6:33 AM, Herowannabe said:Lastly, I will say this- a point in your favor: Not having a target lock does suck sometimes, and Intensity Jake almost never wants to target lock.
If we're talking Intensity-Jake, who is stacking tokens (IE., focus+evade with either a boost or BR), I'm sort of skeptical that TL is better than Juke, anyway.
I mean...it's still a 2-dice primary, so.....
3 hours ago, RoockieBoy said:I'm bumping up this thread as I think Jake Farrel's intensity combo has not been clarified enough...
You're all talking about getting 2 focuses and 2 repositions, BUT, I've played it and seen it played different. In fact, I asked several TOs about it, and they all agreed on Intensity Jake doing FIVE actions. So here's how it goes:
You move and take a focus action. The focus gives you a Boost/BR action, which triggers Intensity for another Focus. Normally you would flip intensity back, but as you received a focus from the reposition action, Jake's ability triggers again, giving you the Boost/BR action you didn't take before. That would give you another focus/evade. I'd take an evade, as there are no more repositions to do, and you alrerady have 2 focuses... Then, you flip intensity. Now you have 3 tokens, and only need one to flip intensity back...
With VI, Intensity, Test pilot title, Prockets and AT you get a really nice slippery ship for 32p
Isn't this the way Intensity should work?
No. "Side A: After you perform a boost or barrel roll action, you may assign 1 focus or evade token to your ship. If you do, flip this card." When that token is assigned, Intensity is flipped. This isn't an issue of a player resolving abilities in the order of their choosing. The moment you use Intensity to get that token, it's exhausted until you spend one to flip it back.
5 hours ago, RampancyTW said:No. "Side A: After you perform a boost or barrel roll action, you may assign 1 focus or evade token to your ship. If you do, flip this card." When that token is assigned, Intensity is flipped. This isn't an issue of a player resolving abilities in the order of their choosing. The moment you use Intensity to get that token, it's exhausted until you spend one to flip it back.
That’s how I used to play it, until I was told Jake’s ability puts the part where you have to flip it back “on hold” until his pilot ability is completed... That’s how it was ruled in several big tournaments around here, including Regionals and Nationals...
9 hours ago, RoockieBoy said:I'm bumping up this thread as I think Jake Farrel's intensity combo has not been clarified enough...
You're all talking about getting 2 focuses and 2 repositions, BUT, I've played it and seen it played different. In fact, I asked several TOs about it, and they all agreed on Intensity Jake doing FIVE actions. So here's how it goes:
You move and take a focus action. The focus gives you a Boost/BR action, which triggers Intensity for another Focus. Normally you would flip intensity back, but as you received a focus from the reposition action, Jake's ability triggers again, giving you the Boost/BR action you didn't take before. That would give you another focus/evade. I'd take an evade, as there are no more repositions to do, and you alrerady have 2 focuses... Then, you flip intensity. Now you have 3 tokens, and only need one to flip intensity back...
With VI, Intensity, Test pilot title, Prockets and AT you get a really nice slippery ship for 32p
Isn't this the way Intensity should work?
Most folks around here disagree, to my knowledge, but it's been debated. Personally, I find the 3-token argument very unconvincing, and think Jake can only get a single extra token from Intensity. However, check with your local tournament organizer, and don't get mad if they limit you to 2 tokens.
6 hours ago, xanderf said:If we're talking Intensity-Jake, who is stacking tokens (IE., focus+evade with either a boost or BR), I'm sort of skeptical that TL is better than Juke, anyway.
I mean...it's still a 2-dice primary, so.....
Proton Rockets without Target Lock seem bad to me. With primary weapons, yeah, TL is kinda junk. As such, I personally only like Intensity Jake with Chardaan Refit and maybe even only Adaptability, since the primary virtue of Intensity over PTL is cheapness (white moves being open is the other virtue).
1 hour ago, RoockieBoy said:That’s how I used to play it, until I was told Jake’s ability puts the part where you have to flip it back “on hold” until his pilot ability is completed... That’s how it was ruled in several big tournaments around here, including Regionals and Nationals...
that would be incredibly good!
2 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:that would be incredibly good!
IT’s definately awesome! I’ve been playing Jake like that for 3 months and is absolutely fun! You almost always have a spare token ti flip intensity back, and if you’re carying prockets it becomes a “really scary 1 turn fenn rau”
29 minutes ago, RoockieBoy said:IT’s definately awesome! I’ve been playing Jake like that for 3 months and is absolutely fun! You almost always have a spare token ti flip intensity back, and if you’re carying prockets it becomes a “really scary 1 turn fenn rau”
I’ve actually heard it argued that if you activate Intensity twice for Jake then you need to flip it twice, meaning it lands face up without having to spend any tokens. That seems a bit far fetched to me though- I’m in the 4 action max camp, and even then I love me some Intensity Jake. 
37 minutes ago, Herowannabe said:I’ve actually heard it argued that if you activate Intensity twice for Jake then you need to flip it twice, meaning it lands face up without having to spend any tokens. That seems a bit far fetched to me though- I’m in the 4 action max camp, and even then I love me some Intensity Jake.
That was also covered by the TOs, they said it was a no-no
5 action jake is awesome for its points
I have to side with the Intensity crowd here, and I loved flying PtL Jake. I’ve found that opening up the 1 hards and all the 3s (and K-turns) makes the a-wing even more fun to play. It’s almost like giving Tycho’s ability to Jake, on top of his own. Granted I’m playing in Fairbanks AK these days, people here barely have internet, let alone how to net list the newest meta.
There is one really bad match up that I’ve found for Intensity Jake though. My buddy ran a HotCop/Gunner RAC and while he didn’t ever hit Jake, he really crushed my fun.
On 1/6/2018 at 7:59 AM, RoockieBoy said:That’s how I used to play it, until I was told Jake’s ability puts the part where you have to flip it back “on hold” until his pilot ability is completed... That’s how it was ruled in several big tournaments around here, including Regionals and Nationals...
That's crazy. I guess they're ruling it as similar to PTL/EI stacking, but that doesn't make sense given the text on the card, and it's different wording than PTL/EI as well.
How about PTL+Intensity instead. Everyone is pushing towards PS 11 anyhow. PS 9 just doesn't cut it anymore.
3 hours ago, Crimsonwarlock said:How about PTL+Intensity instead. Everyone is pushing towards PS 11 anyhow. PS 9 just doesn't cut it anymore.
At some point you put too many points into a ship with a limited number of actions.
I‘d rather have Juke+PTL/Intensity, or personally Outmaneuver.
A slippery ship is nice and all, but it should do something.