In terms of minmaxery (that being the idea of "I want to get as many Tier 5 skills as possible as soon as possible, with as much power gain along the way the earliest it can be acquired") you'd go:

1 1 2 1 2 3 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4 5 (then 1 2 3 4 5 thereafter, although I heard someone upthread saying that once you reached the last tier, other Tier 5 talents could be accessed outside of the pyramid constraint? Disabuse me of that if it's completely wrong.)

An alternative is going breadth-first:
1 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 3 3 3 4 4 5 (1 2 3 4 5 thereafter)

I imagine for most, the utility of certain choices will result in a hodge-podge of the two approaches.

2 hours ago, Big Head Zach said:

I heard someone upthread saying that once you reached the last tier, other Tier 5 talents could be accessed outside of the pyramid constraint? Disabuse me of that if it's completely wrong.

At least from the info given on Reddit, the rule doesn't make exceptions after you reach T5 the first time. You still have to have enough talents to support the next one. 175 for the first, 75 each after.

I believe we are all saying the same thing.

5 hours ago, Tom Cruise said:

Presumably there's some pre-requisites for certain talents (Can't get Improved Parry without Parry, etc)

I believe the poster said you'd just upgrade the original talent in that case (ie, if you have the level 1 talent Parry, you can spend 5xp to replace it with the level 2 talent Improved Parry, though obviously you'd need two other level 1 talents to support the pyramid).

2 minutes ago, rsdockery said:

I believe the poster said you'd just upgrade the original talent in that case (ie, if you have the level 1 talent Parry, you can spend 5xp to replace it with the level 2 talent Improved Parry, though obviously you'd need two other level 1 talents to support the pyramid).

You wouldn't replace it in that sense, I'd presume; you'd just dedicate one of your Tier 2 slots to improving the talent, whose actual benefit exists outside of (and without awareness of) the pyramid. So you'd just need one other Tier 1 skill in order to improve it. The same would go for any other multi-select talent; in a sense they all assume their own sequence of Tier 2, 3, 4 & 5 improvements of themselves (though I imagine for some, there won't be 5 stages, probably fewer).

11 minutes ago, rsdockery said:

I believe the poster said you'd just upgrade the original talent in that case (ie, if you have the level 1 talent Parry, you can spend 5xp to replace it with the level 2 talent Improved Parry, though obviously you'd need two other level 1 talents to support the pyramid).

You wouldn't replace it in that sense, I'd presume; you'd just dedicate one of your Tier 2 slots to improving the talent, whose actual benefit exists outside of (and without awareness of) the pyramid. So you'd just need one other Tier 1 talent in order to improve it to the next stage. The same would go for any other multi-select talent; in a sense they all assume their own sequence of Tier 2, 3, 4 & 5 improvements of themselves (though I imagine for some, there won't be 5 stages, probably fewer). There may also likely be multi-select talents that start at a higher tier (as an example, something you take first at Tier 3, then can be upped via a Tier 4 and then Tier 5 improvement talent.

It's also possible that multi-selects might specify that all of their improvements exist at the same tier as the original, in which case you'd be creating a very robust base for your pyramid if they count as additional talents in all other respects. Or the description might simply state that it just improves that one talent's numbers but doesn't count as separate talents and leaves the pyramid as-is.

TL;DR there's 3 ways I see multi-select talents functioning and they might all be in play, per specific talent under scrutiny:

1. Improvements to the talent exist as higher tier talents themselves and require pyramidal support.
2. Improvements to the talent exist as additional separate talents at the same tier as the base talent and add pyramidal support.
3. Improvements to the talent exist as stat-increases to the talent itself and nothing more, leaving the pyramid unchanged.

This talent pyramid is brilliant! I love it! This sort of free-form character creation is exactly what a system like this needs. Time to make my time-traveling steampunk vampire-hunting wizard!

2 hours ago, Dragonshadow said:

Well, not quite, unless there's an additional pyramid on skills. Genesys talents are more akin to Fate stunts, although with a bit more structure and hierarchy of costs. I haven't heard that there's any way to stop someone from spending every point earned (after the character creation limit of rank 2) to push their main skill to rank 5 before doing anything else. Fate uses its pyramid to prevent that sort of narrow focus. Bear in mind that it also does NOT impose increasing costs for each skill rank other than respecting the pyramid limits--you just get to advance a skill by one rank at certain milestones.

Not having played EotE more than a dozen or so times, I'm not sure which has a greater game effect: a higher level talent or a higher level skill, but it seemed that specific skills will come into play more often than most of the preconditions for talents being used. Talents just seem more fun...

The way I look at it is that talents are how you make your character unique. Three different characters in a campaign may have a couple of points in Piloting, but not all of them are likely to have talents like Defensive Driving or Let's Ride. Another way to look at it is that skill ranks increase your chances of beating insane difficulties and getting Triumphs that let you get really cool results. Talents shape the situations and ways you are able to use your skills, which lets you specialize in being, say, a space pilot versus a racecar driver.

[Deleted duplicate post; site barfed]

I imagine that not all of the Star Wars talents will make it into the core book. What would be the best way to translate/hawk them into the free form character creation? Some talents only appear once throughout all the books, this makes the XP value easy to gauge, but what about instances where the talent costs different XP amounts in different trees? What should the rule of thumb be in these situations? Highest or lowest available value?

14 minutes ago, dresdinseven said:

I imagine that not all of the Star Wars talents will make it into the core book. What would be the best way to translate/hawk them into the free form character creation? Some talents only appear once throughout all the books, this makes the XP value easy to gauge, but what about instances where the talent costs different XP amounts in different trees? What should the rule of thumb be in these situations? Highest or lowest available value?

I think this will have to be a judgement call once we can gauge the general "cost/value" of the different talent tiers in Genesys. In SW it makes sense that a talent might be costed differently depending on the tree and its location with-in it. Here in Genesys, not so much. So we will have to look at the overall benefit of the non-ported-over SW talents...and see where they best fit in with like powered talents.

As always remember that these are "guidelines". Should a certain group choose to play it any way they want and have fun doing it, then do it that way.

Talents are not directly connected to each other. There are five tiers. Each tier is presented on its own dedicated two-page spread, with the talents listed in alphabetical order, as on Edge of the Empire , Pg. 132-145. (In case you need a visual reference. Like that, but each tier gets its own personal two-page alphabetical listing of twenty to thirty talents.)

In addition to the lists, there are five rows that talents may be placed in.
[1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 …]
[2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 …]
[3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 …]
[4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 …]
[5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 …]

These aren't the actual talents, they're just a bunch of blank slots where the talents can go. Whenever you buy a talent, it's placed in the next available slot of its tier. The only rule is, each row must be strictly shorter than the previous row (unless they're both zero).

The first two talents you buy must necessarily be Tier 1.
1 1 [1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 …]
[2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 …]
[3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 …]
[4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 …]
[5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 …]

Your third talent may be Tier 1…
1 1 1 [1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 …]
[2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 …]
[3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 …]
[4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 …]
[5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 …]
…Or Tier 2.
1 1 [1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 …]
2 [2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 …]
[3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 …]
[4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 …]
[5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 …]

If you choose the second option, you'll have no higher level slots open, so you'll once again have to buy a Tier 1 talent.
1 1 1 [1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 …]
2 [2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 …]
[3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 …]
[4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 …]
[5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 …]

But, from here, you can now buy another Tier 2…
1 1 1 [1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 …]
2 2 [2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 …]
[3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 …]
[4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 …]
[5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 …]
…And, eventually, your first Tier 3 talent.
1 1 1 [1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 …]
2 2 [2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 …]
3 [3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 …]
[4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 …]
[5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 …]

You can continue in this fashion…
1 1 1 1 [1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 …]
2 2 2 [2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 …]
3 [3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 …]
[4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 …]
[5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 …]
…To hit Tier 4 as quickly as possible…
1 1 1 1 [1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 …]
2 2 2 [2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 …]
3 3 [3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 …]
4 [4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 …]
[5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 …]
…And go on…
1 1 1 1 1 [1 1 1 1 1 1 1 …]
2 2 2 2 [2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 …]
3 3 3 [3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 …]
4 [4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 …]
[5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 …]
…To almost as quickly reach your first Tier 5 talent.
1 1 1 1 1 [1 1 1 1 1 1 1 …]
2 2 2 2 [2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 …]
3 3 3 [3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 …]
4 4 [4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 …]
5 [5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 …]

That's the talent pyramid. It doesn't exist until you build it.

Note that you're not restricted to a pyramid unless you really want to unlock Tier 5 talents as fast as possible. You can, for example, just focus on low-tier talents.
1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 […]
2 2 2 2 [2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 …]
[3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 …]
[4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 …]
[5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 …]

You could also pick up a Tier 3 talent early on and then branch out into a more even mix of Tier 1 and 2.
1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 [1 1 1 1 …]
2 2 2 2 2 2 [2 2 2 2 2 2 …]
3 [3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 …]
[4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 …]
[5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 …]

For a more concrete example, consider Parry , here represented by the letter "P". Parry is a Tier 1 talent, so you can buy it first.
P [1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 …]
[2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 …]
[3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 …]
[4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 …]
[5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 …]

However, Parry is also a ranked talent. Ranked talents may be bought multiple times, but each time you do, their tier rating increases by one. The second time you buy Parry, it is a Tier 2 talent.
P 1 [1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 …]
P [2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 …]
[3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 …]
[4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 …]
[5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 …]

If you just want maximize your use of Parry as early as possible, you can put it into your first slot of each tier.
P 1 1 1 1 [1 1 1 1 1 1 1 …]
P 2 2 2 [2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 …]
P 3 3 [3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 …]
P 4 [4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 …]
P [5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 …]

Alternatively, you can build up a core Tier 4 pyramid of other useful talents…
1 1 1 1 [1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 …]
2 2 2 [2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 …]
3 3 [3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 …]
4 [4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 …]
[5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 …]
…And then buy all five ranks of Parry as a single solid block.
1 1 1 1 P [1 1 1 1 1 1 1 …]
2 2 2 P [2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 …]
3 3 P [3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 …]
4 P [4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 …]
P [5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 …]

In addition to Parry, there is Improved Parry , a Tier 3 talent here represented by the letter "I", and Supreme Parry , a Tier 5 talent here represented by the letter "S", both of which modify Parry.
If you're going for early Parry, you can pick up Improved Parry and Supreme Parry as the second talents of their ranks.
P 1 1 1 1 1 [1 1 1 1 1 1 …]
P 2 2 2 2 [2 2 2 2 2 2 2 …]
P I 3 3 [3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 …]
P 4 4 [4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 …]
P S [5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 …]

Instead, you could grab Improved Parry and Supreme Parry early for utility, then put Parry 3 and 5 in the second slots of those tiers.
P 1 1 1 1 1 [1 1 1 1 1 1 …]
P 2 2 2 2 [2 2 2 2 2 2 2 …]
I P 3 3 [3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 …]
P 4 4 [4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 …]
S P [5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 …]

However, I'm not sure talents are necessarily linked by prerequisites in a specific order…or at all. For example, you could get Supreme Parry without getting Improved Parry.
P 1 1 1 1 [1 1 1 1 1 1 1 …]
P 2 2 2 [2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 …]
P 3 3 [3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 …]
P 4 [4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 …]
S [5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 …]

Or , you could pick up Improved Parry before you even have a single rank in Parry…
1 1 1 [1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 …]
2 2 [2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 …]
I [3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 …]
[4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 …]
[5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 …]
...And then grab a whole block of Parry.
1 1 1 P [1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 …]
2 2 P [2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 …]
I P [3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 …]
P [4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 …]
[5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 …]

I just took a look at the sample Talent sheet pdf for Genysis and honestly it's more of a Right Trapezoid.

So should we call it a Talent Trapezoid from here on out? Maybe the Talent Right Trapezoid? TRT?

Have we gone to the printers yet?

Here’s a question: What kind of talents are Tier 5 talents? It makes sense for Dedication to be a Tier 5 talent, but what else is in that category?

Or maybe I’m wrong. Is Dedication a Tier 5 talent?

1 minute ago, Johan Marek Phoenix Knight said:

Here’s a question: What kind of talents are Tier 5 talents? It makes sense for Dedication to be a Tier 5 talent, but what else is in that category?

Or maybe I’m wrong. Is Dedication a Tier 5 talent?

Don't have the book with me, but I remember that Improved Overcharge was one. There are not many.

1 minute ago, Johan Marek Phoenix Knight said:

Here’s a question: What kind of talents are Tier 5 talents? It makes sense for Dedication to be a Tier 5 talent, but what else is in that category?

There are 4 other talents in the book specifically at Tier 5 other than Dedication (Indomitable, Master, Improved Overcharge, and Ruinous Repartee), and any Ranked talent can eventually get to tier 5 (each time you purchase a ranked talent, the next Rank for that talent is one tier higher).

2 minutes ago, DarthGM said:

There are 4 other talents in the book specifically at Tier 5 other than Dedication (Indomitable, Master, Improved Overcharge, and Ruinous Repartee), and any Ranked talent can eventually get to tier 5 (each time you purchase a ranked talent, the next Rank for that talent is one tier higher).

...Okay, it's going to be a while before my book gets to me, so I just can't take the suspense. What is "Ruinous Repartee," and how is it a Tier 5 talent?

My book is coming but won’t get here until the 20th (super annoyed about that). What are Indomitable, Master, Improved Overcharge, and Ruinous Repartee? I am very curious.

Indomitable is a way to stay conscious for another round when either of your Thresholds are exceeded.

Master allows you to lower difficulties for one selected skill by two by spending strain.

Improved Overcharge is a talent relating to cybernetics; Overcharge allows you to make a Mechanics check as an action to boost your cybernetic's performance to give you a boost to a characteristics, skills, or talent ranks. The improved version allows you to spend advantage or Triumph to immediately take another action after using Overcharge.

Ruinous Repartee allows you to deal Strain damage with an opposed Charm or Coercion check. The damage is based on twice your Presence stat, so it hits A LOT harder than Scathing Tirade.

7 minutes ago, DarthGM said:

Indomitable is a way to stay conscious for another round when either of your Thresholds are exceeded.

Master allows you to lower difficulties for one selected skill by two by spending strain.

Improved Overcharge is a talent relating to cybernetics; Overcharge allows you to make a Mechanics check as an action to boost your cybernetic's performance to give you a boost to a characteristics, skills, or talent ranks. The improved version allows you to spend advantage or Triumph to immediately take another action after using Overcharge.

Ruinous Repartee allows you to deal Strain damage with an opposed Charm or Coercion check. The damage is based on twice your Presence stat, so it hits A LOT harder than Scathing Tirade.

Dang. I can see why those are so high up there. I especially love Master and Ruinous Repartee. If you have a social-focused character with 4-5 Presence, that thing could be a social one-hit KO.

3 minutes ago, Johan Marek Phoenix Knight said:

Dang. I can see why those are so high up there. I especially love Master and Ruinous Repartee. If you have a social-focused character with 4-5 Presence, that thing could be a social one-hit KO.

Yeah, at first I was like "why is this better than Scathing Tirade-...OH, base damage is Presence x2! Gotcha!". It's a 1/encounter effect, so it should be paired with Scathing Tirade to take out anything like a particularly willful Nemesis by themselves. Everything below that will have a serious hurt put on them, but might not get taken out with it alone.

Plus it's just DEVASTATING in social combat encounters where you usually are dealing with one opponent.

They made a good call of not making Master a ranked talent.

You have ONE SKILL that you're amazing at doing. Choose wisely.

1 minute ago, DarthGM said:

They made a good call of not making Master a ranked talent.

You have ONE SKILL that you're amazing at doing. Choose wisely.

I hadn’t thought about that. Totally making whatever magic skill my character uses the one he is a Master of. Should make doing the fancier spells a little easier.

4 minutes ago, Johan Marek Phoenix Knight said:

I hadn’t thought about that. Totally making whatever magic skill my character uses the one he is a Master of. Should make doing the fancier spells a little easier.

CORRECT. Now the question becomes "can I layer on so many descriptors that the difficulty is technically 7 dice, then use Master to get it down to Formidable (which is the maximum difficulty to cast spells)?"

Probably not, but it would be GROSS to cast an Empowered-Deadly-Fire spell at a target at Medium range. And that's even before layering on bonuses from Magic Implements...

EDIT: Actually, the book on page 217 says "(after any reductions are applied)", so I guess you can do this...!

6 minutes ago, DarthGM said:

They made a good call of not making Master a ranked talent.

You have ONE SKILL that you're amazing at doing. Choose wisely.

I don't have the book yet - could you not buy Master again for another skill when you buy a tier 5?