I've built my first few models stock with a weapon choice.

But I really want to modify these kits.back when I used to play 40k it wasn't even called 40k, we called it rogue trader.

But as I recall, folks got all bent out of shape if you had a certain gun on a model but played it as something else.

Is this still the case? I'm just not interested in doing a zillion times magnets.

Also, I want to change the poses and add wings and stuff to some of them.

But, I can't find where the " rules" or etiquette or whatever is as far as what's normally acceptable to do to change the models appearance.

Can someone help with a link, or a rundown on that?

Ah, the old "WYSIWYG VS Counts as" debate. Depends on the edition and the people as far as I can figure it out. Around 3d edition it was all good (with rules to make your own vehicles and tyranids in WD) then a few years later you had to have every piece of wargear modeled on the model or there'd be **** to pay.

In short I don't know how they do it with 8th edition around.

Personally I believe it comes down to the people you play with: (outside of tournaments) most people will be ok with conversions (as long as it is not meant to decieve). Go to your local game store or club and ask around if (for example:) they mind if you replace the guns on your Leman Russ tanks with Tau weapons (but still count as battle canons) because they are renegade humans. I'm willing to bet most people would be ok with that.

WYSIWYG no longer exists but they removed a whole bunch of options, basically if they don't make the model then it has no rules.

8th is also a damned mess at the moment armies without a codex stand no chance against armies with, they are about to release chapter approved and the leaks show some puzzling changes that has a lot of people angry.

I'd hold off until all the codex are out, atm there's no way to tell how bad things will turn out.

They're your models, you're paying the money for them, putting in the time to convert, paint and base them, it's entirely up to you!

WYSIWYG or "What You See Is What You Get" was the rule from my time playing in 40K competitions, but that was a couple of years ago - basically, the models needed to be equipped with the weapons and equipment you intended to use on the tabletop. i.e. if you were running a Razorback with twin linked lascannons, don't put a Rhino in it's place. As Hobo mentions, that doesn't necessarily exist anymore but the etiquette is that players should be able to identify and recognise your models and units if playing competitively (is that even a thing in 40k any more?)

If you're talking about reposing, adding bling, making your models look unique and striking - well, I really can't see anyone having any problem with that. It's what the hobby is all about!

My biggest concern is stuff like....the gun barrels.

I get what you guys are saying,thank you.

For example, a triarch stalker will look like a triarch stalker....but if I have the double blasto glued in, can I use it as a fire blinger in my list. (I don't know all the names yet).

Stuff like that.

Honestly though, I don't think the local guys will care either way. They are all ex - X-Wing players anyways so they are fairly laid back.

I've never had a problem with 'counts as' in 40k.

It's the same in X-wing - converting the 'ship' is fine as long as your opponent knows what it is as long as the 'base' is untouched because it doesn't affect the game itself, and making sure your opponent knows what pilots and upgrades you're fielding, especially if it's one they might not have seen before, is only good manners.

It's not your fault if they subsequently forget, or don't think through the implications, but just waving your hand and naming the pilot, especially when it's a large ship which might have umpty-ump variations of upgrades isn't really being entirely forthcoming.

My only rule, and what tends to be pretty common in the places I've played, is that whilst you can use 'counts as' where you need to, you need to be consistent with what they count as .

That is, " all the dudes modeled with flamers actually have meltaguns because I don't have any " (e.g. they don't come in the box as standard) or something similar, no-one is going to have a problem with.

By comparison " all the dudes modeled with flamers actually have a variety of different special weapons, some of which are flamers and some of which aren't, varying squad by squad or even within a squad " is a lot more of an issue, because it becomes easy for me to forget what a given model is actually armed with without realising it.

Essentially, as long as:

• The model is not dramatically different in size (such that you can take advantage of cover that a 'normal' one would not)
• It's clear at a glance which models within a squad are the special weapons/sergeants/whatever
• Any replacement 'counts as' weapon is used as that same thing in each case

Then I know what everything in your army is, and you're not getting any advantage from the modelling, so why get bent out of shape about it?

Note that 'official' tournaments may have different positions.

Oh man if your doing necrons wait until the new year and codex release, right now they are the tie punisher of 40k.

All good news. Thanks fellas!

I won't be playing anything for a couple months or so. It will take me that long to get models painted.

On ‎27‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 1:55 AM, Hobojebus said:

8th is also a damned mess at the moment armies without a codex stand no chance against armies with,

Hasn't that always been the case?

But what has me more worried is that I keep hearing stuff about factions all becomming very similar. Like every battleforged army can pick a tactic/atribute/adaption that let's them reroll charge moves, or gives them something like "feel no pain".

If they make a Tau close combat army I'm out. They could call it "Bonding knives can kill too."

10 hours ago, Robin Graves said:

Hasn't that always been the case?

But what has me more worried is that I keep hearing stuff about factions all becomming very similar. Like every battleforged army can pick a tactic/atribute/adaption that let's them reroll charge moves, or gives them something like "feel no pain".

If they make a Tau close combat army I'm out. They could call it "Bonding knives can kill too."

No its like 3rd edition they started from scratch but they are rushing out the codex and balance is way off now.

What makes it worse is before release they made all kinds of promises about how they'd play tested everything, and that's an obvious lie now.

Factions are all similar you have -1 to hit, 6+ fnp etc across most armies now, -1 hit being the strongest option most of the time.

And farsight is a melee char so I wouldn't put it past them, you'll know in the new year.

12 hours ago, Robin Graves said:

If they make a Tau close combat army I'm out. They could call it "Bonding knives can kill too."

You could make a pretty brutal suit-based close quarter army with codex traits or strategems; but not by trying to stab people with bonding knives.

"Pistol X" is now a default trait like "Assault X" or "Rapid Fire X" and allows you to fire the gun whilst in combat. Space Wolves have a stratagem (called True Grit , of course) that lets you treat their bolters as Pistol 2 weapons for the turn. Death Korps have an order with a similar effect instead of Front Rank Fire! Second Rank Fire!

Giving Farsight enclaves an army trait or stratagem allowing them to essentially 'gun kata' a battlesuit's close-quarter weapons (fusion blasters, flamers, burst cannons, etc) at point-blank range gives you an effective assault army, but one which feels far more appropriate for the tau....

1 hour ago, Hobojebus said:

No its like 3rd edition they started from scratch but they are rushing out the codex and balance is way off now.

What makes it worse is before release they made all kinds of promises about how they'd play tested everything, and that's an obvious lie now.

Factions are all similar you have -1 to hit, 6+ fnp etc across most armies now, -1 hit being the strongest option most of the time.

Most of the time the units don't vary much from the rules of the units in the Indexes which all came out at the same time (there are a few exceptions like the Leman Russ tanks) but, yeah - the big difference in power tends to be the 'faction trait' rules and the army-specific stratagems, which those armies which don't have codices don't have yet.

Chapter approved is supposed to provide some to give those armies a 'get-you-by' boost (that's where the aforementioned space wolf stratagem comes from) but we'll have to wait and see whether it actually delivers.

And yes, whilst the units you apply them to vary from codex to codex, 'faction' rules are pretty similar:

• A Space Marine Army with the RAVEN GUARD keyword , a Chaos Space Marine Army with the ALPHA LEGION keyword and a Craftworlds Army with the ALAITOC keyword all get a rule which is "-1 to hit from 12" away or further". It has different names, but it's functionally the same rule.
  • The Chaos Marine and Space Marine faction lists are pretty much mirror images of each other. The only two which don't have a direct counterpart are ULTRAMARINES (increased leadership and the ability to shoot whilst falling back) and BLACK LEGION (increased leadership and the ability to shoot whilst charging forwards)
• The selection of faction rules is often similar, but at least one or two factions are different in each case (and obviously it matters more or less for different armies).
• Guard and Tyranids have by comparison very different faction rules by comparison to one another and the Eldar/Marine lists (Guard <REGIMENT> rules tend to have one element for vehicles and another for infantry, for example).

40 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

You could make a pretty brutal suit-based close quarter army with codex traits or strategems; but not by trying to stab people with bonding knives.

The bonding knives thing was meant to point out the absurdity of Tau melee. But you are correct, It probably wont take long before the Tau come up with their version of a Gundam Deathscythe:

2 hours ago, Hobojebus said:

And farsight is a melee char so I wouldn't put it past them, you'll know in the new year.

Still wondering if that Dawnblade is secretly a chaos weapon or not.

6 minutes ago, Robin Graves said:

But you are correct, It probably wont take long before the Tau come up with their version of a Gundam Deathscythe:

They have - but as noted, it's close combat in the form of 'point blank range firepower' idea of the XV-9 Hazard Suit (the forgeworld thing) or the XV-46 Vanguard.

8 minutes ago, Robin Graves said:

Still wondering if that Dawnblade is secretly a chaos weapon or not.

According to the Farsight Enclaves supplement, it's alien tech - it doesn't specifically say 'chaos' anywhere in the description, and the phrase 'chronophagic', and 'stealing life force' in the description of the weapon's effect, along with the note that it's far older than the imperium of man, makes it sound like a necrontyr weapon if its the product of any 'known' race in the game.

Just as an aside: I have a bunch of 40k (oop Imperial Guard; Space Wolves, loads of old metal eldar aspects, guardians, A bunch of Orcs still on sprue, old “beakie” plastic space marines etc..) if you are interested in trades for XWM or imperial Assault stuff let me know!

I'm old.

To me, all space Marines should have pointy faces.