You skipped Ackbar Assault Frigates, and Demolisher based 1st builds seems awfully vague. (No, I'm not really sure how to narrow it down.) I'll also mention the Devastator builds that make the odd appearance. I will also note that I don't often see a difference between Ackbar 80 and Rebel mass Strategic . In my area and experience those tend to be one and the same, unless you have something else in mind. My final note is that there are two flavors of Rebel swarms right now, the Cracken/Mothma obstruction/evade based builds, and the Sato "Eat black dice, ISD!" based builds.

33 minutes ago, GiledPallaeon said:

You skipped Ackbar Assault Frigates, and Demolisher based 1st builds seems awfully vague. (No, I'm not really sure how to narrow it down.) I'll also mention the Devastator builds that make the odd appearance. I will also note that I don't often see a difference between Ackbar 80 and Rebel mass Strategic . In my area and experience those tend to be one and the same, unless you have something else in mind. My final note is that there are two flavors of Rebel swarms right now, the Cracken/Mothma obstruction/evade based builds, and the Sato "Eat black dice, ISD!" based builds.

Okay. so I took a lot of this material from post nerf lists on major tournaments. I forgot which one, but a strong 4-5/8 were Ackbar MC80 lists. However, that also meant that there were many variants. All 1 MC80. Some with MC30, some with CR90, some with mass non-strategic, and some with 3 VCX. Oh, one was a Rieekan MC80. I think @Truthiness had it?

You can also play mass strategic with smaller ships, like 5 ship MC30 + mass strategic + AA but no bombers. make more sense? There are a few lists out there that are mass VCX without MC80s.

Ther are definitely more than 2 Rebel MSU:
6 TRC90s
8 ship Rambo90s
hammerhead lists, possibly + 1 MC80 or Liberty or MC30.
2-3 MC30 lists + transports. 6 or 7 ships.
Cr90 NebB classic MSU
5 ship Cracken TRC90 + Rogues. (This is a fun fleet.)
But I will admit generally they use Cracken or Mothma, but they can also use Dodonna (T1) or Leia (T2). Either way, the composition and battle plans are very different.

As for Demo, yes I'm specifically vague: It appears as an addition to fleets sometimes, as opposed to being a specific fleet style a la Clonisher. Meaning its ubiquitous.

Thirdly, hey man, can I get a break? This is off the top of my head... =( You're asking a lot of my memory.

Fourth, Devastator is cool, but I have not seen high level tournament wins therefore, I can't say its T1. Doesn't mean it isn't. It means I lack data to give you my best impression.

55 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Okay. so I took a lot of this material from post nerf lists on major tournaments. I forgot which one, but a strong 4-5/8 were Ackbar MC80 lists. However, that also meant that there were many variants. All 1 MC80. Some with MC30, some with CR90, some with mass non-strategic, and some with 3 VCX. Oh, one was a Rieekan MC80. I think @Truthiness had it?

You can also play mass strategic with smaller ships, like 5 ship MC30 + mass strategic + AA but no bombers. make more sense? There are a few lists out there that are mass VCX without MC80s.

Ther are definitely more than 2 Rebel MSU:
6 TRC90s
8 ship Rambo90s
hammerhead lists, possibly + 1 MC80 or Liberty or MC30.
2-3 MC30 lists + transports. 6 or 7 ships.
Cr90 NebB classic MSU
5 ship Cracken TRC90 + Rogues. (This is a fun fleet.)
But I will admit generally they use Cracken or Mothma, but they can also use Dodonna (T1) or Leia (T2). Either way, the composition and battle plans are very different.

As for Demo, yes I'm specifically vague: It appears as an addition to fleets sometimes, as opposed to being a specific fleet style a la Clonisher. Meaning its ubiquitous.

Thirdly, hey man, can I get a break? This is off the top of my head... =( You're asking a lot of my memory.

Fourth, Devastator is cool, but I have not seen high level tournament wins therefore, I can't say its T1. Doesn't mean it isn't. It means I lack data to give you my best impression.

First, that makes more sense. I was rattling off some other lists I'm used to seeing doing well, even if they don't always crack table 1 or 2. Also, you totally get credit. You rattled off more than I could have developed in the same time frame. In any case, that speaks to overall meta health in Armada, which, valid concerns about official support in paper, plastic, and otherwise, is in a really good place.

Oh, I haven't seen Ackbar AFs btw. Seem to be outclassed by the massive MC80 Ackbar.

22 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Oh, I haven't seen Ackbar AFs btw. Seem to be outclassed by the massive MC80 Ackbar.

They only have a couple adherents around here. The big advantages are overlapping fire for Fire Lanes, more targets to beat up, and improved speed characteristics. In exchange you give up raw durability and dice fixing. All depends on personal preference (most builds are fairly old and only tweaked with new kit).

What about Garm MC80, Hammerhead support, A's and E's? I remember that winning a tournament recently.

No list with MC80 liberty?

21 minutes ago, Aresius said:

No list with MC80 liberty?

Shhh! Don't tell them! It will be our little secret!

Locally our meta is fairly diverse, but for a while (After I crushed everyone in our group with it) we saw a few variations of my "tortuga" list linger around. One player, who's fairly new, plays it almost exclusively now, while the rest have splintered off to test other methods.

2 hours ago, Darth Sanguis said:

Locally our meta is fairly diverse, but for a while (After I crushed everyone in our group with it) we saw a few variations of my "tortuga" list linger around. One player, who's fairly new, plays it almost exclusively now, while the rest have splintered off to test other methods.

Was that the three Arqs, Sloane Quasar with generic swarm? I really liked the list, even if it didn't have the best matchup against mine.

I'm guessing it was built to go second and maximize token manipulation.

3 minutes ago, BiggsIRL said:

Was that the three Arqs, Sloane Quasar with generic swarm? I really liked the list, even if it didn't have the best matchup against mine.

I'm guessing it was built to go second and maximize token manipulation.

Actually, while that was MY list (and you are correct), the sloane swarm generics hasn't really been used here. I came up with that a week before the tournament as a joke. Zac loved it but unfortunately, I don't think he got to try it more than once.

The fleet I'm referring to is below. There have been 4 or 5 variations of it made by several players in our local group. I've played it 12-15 times and only lost with it once. (even won a q3 tournament with it a few weeks back).

Tortuga
Author: Darth Sanguis

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 398/400

Commander: Admiral Motti

Assault Objective: Targeting Beacons
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Superior Positions

Victory II-Class Star Destroyer (85 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Disposable Capacitors ( 3 points)
- Quad Battery Turrets ( 5 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 104 total ship cost

Victory II-Class Star Destroyer (85 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Disposable Capacitors ( 3 points)
- Quad Battery Turrets ( 5 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 104 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
- Comms Net ( 2 points)
= 25 total ship cost

[ flagship ] Quasar Fire I-class Cruiser-Carrier (54 points)
- Admiral Motti ( 24 points)
- Minister Tua ( 2 points)
- Flight Controllers ( 6 points)
- Boosted Comms ( 4 points)
- Advanced Projectors ( 6 points)
= 96 total ship cost

1 "Howlrunner" ( 16 points)
1 Dengar ( 20 points)
1 "Mauler" Mithel ( 15 points)
1 Soontir Fel ( 18 points)

14 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:

Actually, while that was MY list (and you are correct), the sloane swarm generics hasn't really been used here. I came up with that a week before the tournament as a joke. Zac loved it but unfortunately, I don't think he got to try it more than once.

The fleet I'm referring to is below. There have been 4 or 5 variations of it made by several players in our local group. I've played it 12-15 times and only lost with it once. (even won a q3 tournament with it a few weeks back).

Tortuga
Author: Darth Sanguis

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 398/400

Commander: Admiral Motti

Assault Objective: Targeting Beacons
Defense Objective: Contested Outpost
Navigation Objective: Superior Positions

Victory II-Class Star Destroyer (85 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Disposable Capacitors ( 3 points)
- Quad Battery Turrets ( 5 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 104 total ship cost

Victory II-Class Star Destroyer (85 points)
- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)
- Disposable Capacitors ( 3 points)
- Quad Battery Turrets ( 5 points)
- Leading Shots ( 4 points)
= 104 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
- Comms Net ( 2 points)
= 25 total ship cost

[ flagship ] Quasar Fire I-class Cruiser-Carrier (54 points)
- Admiral Motti ( 24 points)
- Minister Tua ( 2 points)
- Flight Controllers ( 6 points)
- Boosted Comms ( 4 points)
- Advanced Projectors ( 6 points)
= 96 total ship cost

1 "Howlrunner" ( 16 points)
1 Dengar ( 20 points)
1 "Mauler" Mithel ( 15 points)
1 Soontir Fel ( 18 points)

Quasar with only 4 squadrons? Is there any worry about them dying too fast?

19 minutes ago, geek19 said:

Quasar with only 4 squadrons? Is there any worry about them dying too fast?

Our meta isn't particularly squadron heavy, but in the 2-3 matches where I went against full squads, I found holding them back until the opponent moved into ship range let me split their squads and provide enough support AA to neutralize most of the threat. Enough that simply sinking the carriers became a much less "risky" plan.

A particular example was a jendon/steel/bombers combo being activated by gozantis diffusing across the mat. They moved just into blue range with jendon and steel, rhymer and some bombers not far behind at the end of round 2. I was able to 1st activation alpha strike back and mop up steel and some escort fighters. From there the bombers were locked in and eating the counter benefits of that combo.

The Wambo Jambo does a fairly massive amount of damage, I can usually take out 2 aces or 3-4 standards the first strike. From there the scatters can normally keep them alive through round 4, and by then my VSDs are cleaning up.

The one match I lost was against a generic sloane swarm which targeted dengar and locked my forces down, allowing the rest of the swarm to strip my VSDs, that match rapidly declined from there.

So I guess the TLDR is a qualified "yes" there are obvious weaknesses to such a small screen and a well played squad heavy fleet will have distinct advantages, but I've found that careful planning and a little luck do it wonders.

[Also the variations that are typically run of this have 6+ squads, they do quite well in the squad game]

17 hours ago, Mikael Hasselstein said:

This is probably the right approach. Now, if I was only in s much touch with my local meta as I used to be.... when I ran this town!

Of course, there was the last Regionals in Vancouver, WA (Portland, OR), when I was on the way up the ranks. I had managed to hand-pick my first opponent*, whom I clubbed like the baby seal he was (then). And then, the second round, I faced @Tirion .

This guy came in from outta town, slinging some upgrades that we hadn't seen 'round here much. He brought Yavaris and Toryn Farr, who (don't ask me why, I don't play Rebels), had not really been featured in these parts . He then broke my face with them. (At one point, it could have been close, but then it wasn't.)

I suppose this presupposes somewhat of a list of archetypes that 'get played' (and are known to be played), which is how many of us interpret the definition of 'meta', which is a bit different from the way you're implying its definition.

I think your definition is valuable too, though I think it's true for the people at the top tables. But that also sounds like a truism, or a circular argument, except for those times when some new thing or element has been introduced in order to shake things up. Basically, it sounds like you're saying that 'the meta' (according to the definition that I use) has come to an equilibrium, and people know what they've got and what they're probably going to run into among the people who know what they're doing.

That sounds like a useful expansion on what @Ardaedhel is saying, above. Since the list of contenders has already been published ( here ), I think I know about half of the names on that list. The real big dog of the neighborhood will be the TO, so that's no worry for me. Another person is the one I've been practicing with, and he does have the hard counter to my list (dammit). But the point is, this is not actually a very cohesive core of people who usually face one another, with just a couple of exceptions. So, there's really no telling what this meta will be like, and - as such - there is no "local meta", really.

*I had the bye, and then he wandered in.

Still there most interesting and intense game I've played. It was super close until the the very end of round 5.